On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:31:36 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:
Glad you agree. I was beginning to wonder.
You have more problems than wondering.

Tdonaly wrote:
Instantaneous current changes with time in a standing wave but it doesn't
go anywhere.

You dig your logical hole ever deeper, Tom. Current that doesn't move
means that dQ/dt equals zero. Hint: current cannot exist without
movement. Even DC current cannot stand still. AC/RF current is even
worse for your illogical premise.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Richard Clark wrote:

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:26:05 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:

There's no other 358 directions

You've offered up/down back/forth.... that's enough?
but then you do offer the supernatural.

I'm sorry, Richard, that you misunderstood. It is you who
offer the supernatural, not me. There are only two directions
of travel in a wire. Positive phase is toward the load, negative
phase is toward the source, by conventional definition. I realize
that you are unconventional.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Tdonaly wrote:
Instantaneous current changes with time in a standing wave but it doesn't
go anywhere.

You dig your logical hole ever deeper, Tom. Current that doesn't move
means that dQ/dt equals zero. Hint: current cannot exist without
movement. Even DC current cannot stand still. AC/RF current is even
worse for your illogical premise.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


Nope, you got it wrong again, Cecil. It's the charge that moves, not
the current. In fact all you have in this situation is space, charge, and
time. Current is just the flow rate of charge. I've wondered for a long time
where you got your understanding of transmission lines. Now, it seems,
you don't even have a good grasp of the meaning of the word "current."
I know there's no use arguing with you. Lo Ngow Ok Gow, as the
Hoi San people say (Old cow hard to teach). People who read your
posts should keep in mind your conceptual infirmities, however.
73,
Tom Donaly

Cecil Moore wrote:
J. Harvey wrote:
3) Black wave is (by any reasonable definition)
NOT MOVING. Neither left nor right. It has
no direction. It IS standing still.

The Black wave loop is moving up and down indicating
that the phase is changing from positive to negative.
The cosine of the phase angle indicates the direction
of current flow. How can you say it has no direction?
And only a blind person would assert that the current
loop is standing still while moving up and down.
Current that stands still is zero current.

A jump rope is a standing wave. Do you also assert
that a jump rope in motion is standing still?

Cecil - you are hereby found GUILTY of UNFAIR and MISLEADING
'snipping'. Here is the part that I wrote that you very unfairly
snipped.

J. Harvey wrote:
Of course, the black wave is still 'AC'
(a pointlessly obvious point). It might be worth
pointing out this 'duh!-obvious' up-and-down
motion of the black standing wave to eager RF
newbies, but it is not worth making an argument.

You will note that I totally and completely pre-empted your
highly-predictable attempt at the next duh!-obvious layer of your
feeble semantic nonsense. I even used the exact words,
'...up-and-down...'. It was very unfair of you to snip that out and
then proceed to make the same duh!-obvious, so-called 'point'.


Bad Cop: "Stop, or I'll shoot!"
Suspect: "OK! OK! Don't shoot man; I'm like totally frozen!"
~BANG!~
Good Cop: "Why did you shoot him?"
Bad Cop: "He was 'moving'..."
Good Cop: "But he was standing perfectly still!"
Bad Cop: "Ah, but his heart was still beating..."


Cecil - you're the Bad Cop.
No doughnut for you.
;-)

1.There is no standing wave, it is an abstraction. Look at the formula for
reflection coefficient, the only terms are Zf and Zr.

2. The standing wave does not cause IR losses, the losses are because of the
increase of reflected current. We measure that increased reflected current
and from it create a ratio to the forward current and describe it as a
standing wave ratio.

3. To argue which way a ratio goes is pointless.

4. The jump rope example shows the forward and reflected wave only. One may
observe the constructive and destructive resultant waves. One can NOT see a
standing wave, whereas one may be computed from the observations.

5. Set the reflected current equal to the forward current and the field
changes from electrical to magnetic twice a second. A pure observable non
moving standing wave, some call that resonance.






"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Tdonaly wrote:
Instantaneous current changes with time in a standing wave but it
doesn't
go anywhere.

You dig your logical hole ever deeper, Tom. Current that doesn't move
means that dQ/dt equals zero. Hint: current cannot exist without
movement. Even DC current cannot stand still. AC/RF current is even
worse for your illogical premise.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Tdonaly wrote:
Nope, you got it wrong again, Cecil. It's the charge that moves, not
the current.

Uh, Tom, a voltage causes a charge to move and the result is zero
current? Do you know how many laws of physics that assertion violates?

There exist two currents of one amp at zero degrees. Their sum is 2 amps
at zero degrees but you assert that even though the component currents
are moving in the same direction, the sum of the two currents is standing
still? Care to provide some proof for that ridiculous assertion?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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J. Harvey wrote:
Cecil - you are hereby found GUILTY of UNFAIR and MISLEADING
'snipping'. Here is the part that I wrote that you very unfairly
snipped.

Sorry, when I encounter a false statement, I don't even read the
rest of posting. Maybe you should be more careful?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Sorry, when I encounter a false statement, I don't even read the
rest of posting. Maybe you should be more careful?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



yep, with hostile audience like this you HAVE to be. I learned that and had to
apologize :-)

Yuri

Amen Fred!