Jim Kelley wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

You still don't accept the fact that the sign of the cosine of the phase
angle is related to one of two possible directions in a transmission line.

I don't accept all of you ideas about it, no. When adding two AC
signals, their relative phase determines whether the signals add or
subtract. I have no idea what you think it says about the direction an
"alternating current is traveling". That part of it is absolute
nonsense.

"Absolute nonsense." Translation: "I don't understand."

Jim, the real current, the current that exists in this real world, is
I*cos(phase_angle). In a wire, there are only two possible directions
for current flow. The sign of cos(phase_angle) yields the direction
of current flow, referenced to something, usually the source. In a wire,
current cannot stand still. Therefore, it must be flowing in one of
two directions. If the cos(phase_angle) is positive, convention has it
flowing toward the load. If the cos(phase_angle) is negative convention
has it flowing toward the source. Instantaneous AC current changes direction
every 1/2 cycle and every 1/2 wavelength. I notice that no one argued with
my peak current diagram in 2 wavelengths of transmission line.

Kraus says that antenna current reverses phase every 180 degrees (for a
thin wire). That assertion applies to either 180 degrees of time or 180
degrees of antenna.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Tdonaly wrote:
I didn't think he'd get it, but that's o.k. It's getting so
the only way to post to this newsgroup is to write little Zen riddles
and let Cecil meditate his way to enlightenment, since mathematical
logic, and experiment are against his principles.

When you can't win the argument, launch an ad hominem attack. Nobody has
offered anything that proves me technically wrong about AC current flow.
You guys who believe that AC current always flows the same direction have
been seduced by the DC model that you have been using. Maybe you should
be reminded that the only relationship between DC and RMS AC is the
power transfer abilities. Shirley, you can understand that AC transfers
power no matter which direction the current is flowing.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Tdonaly wrote:
Which just goes to show how soft real men have become. In the old days,
the requirements also included eating peas with a Bowie knife and being
able to hit a spittoon every time at twenty yards, not to mention the usual
bear rassling and dynamite-fisted bare knuckles fights.

"Now where's that Indian Maiden that I'm supposed to wrestle?"
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil Moore wrote:
If the cos(phase_angle) is positive, convention has it
flowing toward the load. If the cos(phase_angle) is negative convention
has it flowing toward the source.

Prove it.

73, Jim AC6XG

Sounds like I need to scan & post the technical explanation for the Micro
Match from QST. I have a copy from Dad's stuff. It gives an explanatin of
how you sample the voltage & current on the line, account for phase and
determine fwd & rev power. Think it'd help?

I can't address this issue (my brain can't get a lock on the phase/direction
issue) .

--
Steve N, K,9;d, c. i My email has no u's.


"Jim Kelley" wrote in message
...
Cecil Moore wrote:
If the cos(phase_angle) is positive, convention has it
flowing toward the load. If the cos(phase_angle) is negative convention
has it flowing toward the source.

Prove it.

73, Jim AC6XG

Steve Nosko wrote:

Sounds like I need to scan & post the technical explanation for the Micro
Match from QST. I have a copy from Dad's stuff. It gives an explanatin of
how you sample the voltage & current on the line, account for phase and
determine fwd & rev power. Think it'd help?

Cecil claims he's not talking about the direction of wave propagation.
He says he's talking about current flow. DC flows in one of two
possible directions, but Cecil seems to think that AC does as well.

I can't address this issue (my brain can't get a lock on the phase/direction issue).

My impression is that Cecil may be having a similar kind of difficulty.

73, Jim AC6XG

Jim Kelley wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
If the cos(phase_angle) is positive, convention has it
flowing toward the load. If the cos(phase_angle) is negative convention
has it flowing toward the source.

Prove it.

Huh? You're kidding, right? Plug a 100k resistor into your wall socket.
Assuming the "hot" wire is the one on the left, like it is in my
house, and that hot wire is the reference: When the resistor lead
plugged into the hot side is a positive voltage compared to the other
side, the current is flowing out of the hot wire into the resistor, by
convention. When the resistor lead plugged into the hot side is a negative
voltage, the current is flowing into the hot wire. Shirley, this is common
knowledge for a physics prof. It is certainly common knowledge for power
engineers.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Art Unwin KB9MZ wrote:
Cecil we have severe weather here that it requires a real snow job from me
to emerge back into this particular thread !!!!!

Just remember when Einstein said, "God doesn't roll dice", one of the QED
physicists replied that, "Not only does God roll dice, he rolls them in
the dark." :-) What's wrong with your browser?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil Moore wrote:

Plug a 100k resistor into your wall socket.
Assuming the "hot" wire is the one on the left, like it is in my
house, and that hot wire is the reference: When the resistor lead
plugged into the hot side is a positive voltage compared to the other
side, the current is flowing out of the hot wire into the resistor, by
convention. When the resistor lead plugged into the hot side is a negative voltage, the current is flowing into the hot wire.

Right - sort of. But alternating current flows *through* the resistor -
not *to* and/or *from* it. There is no convention describing
unidirectional flow of alternating current. That is what you've been
trying to say, i.e. current into one end of a coil.

73, Jim AC6XG

Cecil Moore wrote in message ...

Hmmmmm, they're not physical and they're not virtual. Leaves only
one possibility. They are imaginary, i.e. imagined.


Kinda like how you imagine you are saying something important
or intelligent!


S.