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#1
January 25th 07, 07:25 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Antennas led astray
Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote: Using that standard, the age of the universe is what it is. Use a different standard, you get a different answer. So what? So why strive for more and more accuracy in the absolute age of the universe if the time standard is arbitrary? *ALL* units of measurement are arbitrary. Once a standard is set, that's (if you are sane) what you use. By that convoluted logic: The dollar is an arbitrary unit so why strive for accuracy in your paycheck? The inch is an arbitrary unit so why should the carpenter strive for accuracy in matching the new door to your old door frame? Miles per hour are based on two arbitrary units so why should the cop give you a ticket for doing 90 in a 35 MPH zone? The liter is an arbitrary unit so why should the maker strive to ensure there is 2 liters of soda in a 2 liter bottle? But, I know you are just playing word games here. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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#2
January 25th 07, 07:31 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Antennas led astray
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#3
January 25th 07, 09:15 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Antennas led astray
John Smith I wrote:
wrote: ... *ALL* units of measurement are arbitrary. Once a standard is set, that's (if you are sane) what you use. By that convoluted logic: The dollar is an arbitrary unit so why strive for accuracy in your paycheck? The inch is an arbitrary unit so why should the carpenter strive for accuracy in matching the new door to your old door frame? Miles per hour are based on two arbitrary units so why should the cop give you a ticket for doing 90 in a 35 MPH zone? The liter is an arbitrary unit so why should the maker strive to ensure there is 2 liters of soda in a 2 liter bottle? But, I know you are just playing word games here. Sir: You SERIOUSLY miss the point. You mean the point where I won't subscribe to arm waving philosophy and insist on science? All you named there are an invention of man and man allows himself to be governed by them ... (some don't, ever hear about income tax evasion and prisons?) Babble. The laws of mathematics, physics and the sciences exist in an absolute form, somewhere ... Utter nonsense. All units are human constructs. There is no such thing as an absolute frame of reference, or much of anything else absolute except the value of pi. There is no absolute quanta of time, length, mass, flux density, energy, power, angular measure, force, or speed. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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#4
January 25th 07, 09:22 PM
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Antennas led astray
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#5
January 25th 07, 11:45 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Antennas led astray
John Smith I wrote:
wrote: ... There is no such thing as an absolute frame of reference, or much of anything else absolute except the value of pi. There is no absolute quanta of time, length, mass, flux density, energy, power, angular measure, force, or speed. Jim: Well then, we can safely assume you have no belief in God! And, certainly not a God prone to playing dice in the dark!--but, still able to follow some rules ... (thanks for that one Cecil) Non sequitur. Well then, that leaves the "Man is God" theory, we will just make up the rules as we go along ... I have tried that with women--I find most of them even have rules I must obey ... Non sequitur. You do babble a lot. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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#6
January 25th 07, 11:40 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Antennas led astray
John Smith I wrote:
The laws of mathematics, physics and the sciences exist in an absolute form, somewhere ... Too bad we haven't discovered them yet. :-) -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
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#7
January 25th 07, 11:39 PM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Antennas led astray
wrote:
The dollar is an arbitrary unit so why strive for accuracy in your paycheck? How much did an ounce of gold cost in dollars one year after the first super nova? That is the point that you are missing. But, I know you are just playing word games here. Nope, you completely missed the point. Our seconds are just as arbitrary as our dollars. Our dollars didn't exist one year after the first super nova and neither did our seconds. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
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#8
January 26th 07, 12:25 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Antennas led astray
Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote: The dollar is an arbitrary unit so why strive for accuracy in your paycheck? How much did an ounce of gold cost in dollars one year after the first super nova? That is the point that you are missing. But, I know you are just playing word games here. Nope, you completely missed the point. Our seconds are just as arbitrary as our dollars. Our dollars didn't exist one year after the first super nova and neither did our seconds. How many times have I said standards are arbitrary, Cecil? That the standards are arbitrary is irrelevant. That the human defined unit of time called the second didn't exist before humans defined it is irrelevant. Time existed before humans and will continue to exist after humans are long gone. There is no such thing as a quanta of time. The human defined unit of time called the second is simply a way to measure time. The universe existed for a very long time before humans came along and defined a unit of time called the second and put a number related to those units on it's age. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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#9
January 26th 07, 12:42 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Antennas led astray
wrote:
The human defined unit of time called the second is simply a way to measure time. The universe doesn't age one second with each passing second of subjective-arbitrary Earth time so what good is any estimate of the age of the universe? A scientist living somewhere else in the universe will get an entirely different result. One of the cornerstones of science is that if the results are not reproducible everywhere at every time then they are invalid. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
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#10
January 26th 07, 01:15 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna
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Antennas led astray
Cecil Moore wrote:
wrote: The human defined unit of time called the second is simply a way to measure time. The universe doesn't age one second with each passing second of subjective-arbitrary Earth time so what good is any estimate of the age of the universe? A scientist living somewhere else in the universe will get an entirely different result. One of the cornerstones of science is that if the results are not reproducible everywhere at every time then they are invalid. Nonsense. The universe most certainly does age one second with each passing second within the frame of reference where the second was defined. If a scientist living somewhere else in the universe uses the same frame of reference, he will get the same result. If he uses a different frame of reference, he will get a different result which can be converted to our frame of reference and the result will be the same. GPS satellites are in a different frame of reference but manage to provide results that agree with our frame of reference. What I really don't understand is why understanding frames of reference is so difficult for many evidently otherwise intelligent people. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
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