"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
et...
Dave Oldridge wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote in news:aqfuh.4372$O02.4066
*Only* within the frame of reference where the second
was defined which didn't exist for the first 2/3
of the history of the universe.

Actually, the second is defined as a certain exact number of oscillations
of a cesium atom in the same reference frame as the observer.

The same problem still exists. The cesium atom didn't
exist before the first super nova. How can the time
be calculated between the Big Bang and the first super
nova if cesium didn't exist?
--
73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
Units of measurement are totally arbitrary, what they are measuring isnt. It
is irrelevant how long a second is as long as everyone agrees. Time has
nothing to do with the existance of cesium. The origonal basis for the
second was the roatation of the earth but that is not constant so it was
redefined I believe in the 60s, seems like I remember hearing about it in
HS.

Jimmie D wrote:

...
Units of measurement are totally arbitrary, what they are measuring isnt. It
is irrelevant how long a second is as long as everyone agrees. Time has
nothing to do with the existance of cesium. The origonal basis for the
second was the roatation of the earth but that is not constant so it was
redefined I believe in the 60s, seems like I remember hearing about it in
HS.



Jimmie:

There is much common sense in what you state.

However, I see us at a point where no more real advances in knowledge
can be made until we do have an understanding of what these arbitrary
units ARE measuring--at present, all we really understand are our units ...

Regards,
JS

"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
Jimmie D wrote:

...
Units of measurement are totally arbitrary, what they are measuring isnt.
It is irrelevant how long a second is as long as everyone agrees. Time
has nothing to do with the existance of cesium. The origonal basis for
the second was the roatation of the earth but that is not constant so it
was redefined I believe in the 60s, seems like I remember hearing about
it in HS.

Jimmie:

There is much common sense in what you state.

However, I see us at a point where no more real advances in knowledge can
be made until we do have an understanding of what these arbitrary units
ARE measuring--at present, all we really understand are our units ...

Regards,
JS

There are a lot of things about the universe we really dont understand, time
and gravity are just two. Our understanding of time is just a theory like
gravity but so far all we think we know about it seems to work. I dont worry
much about falling up when I get out of bed in the morning. Arguing about it
is as fruitless as telling someone why an arbitrailly thrown together pile
of metal isnt a breakthrough in antenna design. Where do you start??

Jimmie

Jimmie

Jimmie D wrote:

...
There are a lot of things about the universe we really dont understand, time
and gravity are just two. Our understanding of time is just a theory like
gravity but so far all we think we know about it seems to work. I dont worry
much about falling up when I get out of bed in the morning. Arguing about it
is as fruitless as telling someone why an arbitrailly thrown together pile
of metal isnt a breakthrough in antenna design. Where do you start??

Jimmie

Jimmie



Jimmie:

Don't kill the messenger. I am at a loss to any REAL answers, as you
are. But when you ask, "Where do you start?" Haven't we already
started when at least we can describe the problem and starting talking
and thinking about it?

I don't even claim to be "smart enough" to solve all this (at least I am
not that stupid grin), however, I would like to be standing next to
the man who can ... if I can help him, I would!

CERN now has the equipment to help ...

Warmest regards,
JS

Jimmie D wrote:
Units of measurement are totally arbitrary, what they are measuring isnt.

So a standard unit of measurement can change value
daily in an unknown fashion and still yield non-arbirtary
results?
--
73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
et...
Jimmie D wrote:
Units of measurement are totally arbitrary, what they are measuring isnt.

So a standard unit of measurement can change value
daily in an unknown fashion and still yield non-arbirtary
results?
--
73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Theorectically yes, practically no. But this is just something you came up
with and has nothing to do with what I said.. My total message was not so
long that it needed to be snipped , it is obvious why you did. If you just
want to argue and do so by taking what somone says out of context please put
me on your kill file .

Jimmie D wrote:
My total message was not so
long that it needed to be snipped , it is obvious why you did. If you just
want to argue and do so by taking what somone says out of context please put
me on your kill file .

It is obvious that honoring netnews guidelines requires
snipping the part of the message to which I am not replying.
Have you read the netnews guidelines?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:

Jimmie D wrote:

Units of measurement are totally arbitrary, what they are measuring isnt.


So a standard unit of measurement can change value
daily in an unknown fashion and still yield non-arbirtary
results?

You'd have to be able to demonstrate that relativistic effects single
out particular units of measurement to the exclusion of others without
having an effect on the observed phenomena and all within the same
reference frame before being able to substantiate any claim that the
result of a particular measurement is arbitrary. Can you demonstrate
that?

jk

Jim Kelley wrote:
You'd have to be able to demonstrate that relativistic effects single
out particular units of measurement to the exclusion of others without
having an effect on the observed phenomena and all within the same
reference frame before being able to substantiate any claim that the
result of a particular measurement is arbitrary. Can you demonstrate that?

Relativistic effects certainly single out measurements
of time - also length in the direction of velocity.

It has been demonstrated numerous times that the velocity
of a clock affects the length of its second. What is
the velocity of the cesium clock on Earth?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Jim Kelley wrote:
You'd have to be able to demonstrate that relativistic effects single
out particular units of measurement to the exclusion of others without
having an effect on the observed phenomena and all within the same
reference frame before being able to substantiate any claim that the
result of a particular measurement is arbitrary. Can you demonstrate that?

Relativistic effects certainly single out measurements
of time - also length in the direction of velocity.

It has been demonstrated numerous times that the velocity
of a clock affects the length of its second. What is
the velocity of the cesium clock on Earth?

Zero by definition.

--
Jim Pennino

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