wrote in message
oups.com...

What are the common issues with the crimp-on connectors? I've been
using them here and there mainly because they are cheap. So far I
haven't really noticed any problems, but maybe it's because I haven't
used anything else to see an improvement. Thanks!!

it not that they are so bad it just that the compression fittings are the
way to go.

On 6 Apr 2007 08:29:32 -0400, (Al Dykes) wrote:

In article ,
Paul Franklin wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 03:27:04 GMT, "Jerry Martes"
wrote:
snip
Belden, Alpha and Carol are all good. As important as the cable are
the connectors. The compression type are the way to go, IMO. Invest
in a good QS stripper and a compression tool. Don't bother with crimp
tools and don't even think about twist-on.



What's the diff between a compression tool and a crimp tool?


OT: I inherited break/fix responsibility (billable by the hour) on a
business thinwire lan that was installed by a TV cable guy. He used
twist-ons and no crimp rings. That site paid my rent for a couple
years, until I eventually replaced all the connectors with proper
ends.

For that reason, I've always looked fondly on twist-ons, in a bizzare
way.

The compression fitting have a captive sleeve on the cable end of the
fitting. You strip the cable more or less as usual, slide it up
through the connector as you would with a crimp type. But then the
compression tool presses the sleeve up into the body of the connector.
The inside is tapered, so when the sleeve is pressed in, it compresses
against the cable, locking it tightly into place.

Here's a pictu

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...=411&sku=41077

They are also available with seals for water resistant outdoor use.
(In fact, the picture is of a connector with seals.)

Here's what the tool looks like:

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...1403&sku=38011

Try 'em, you'll like 'em!

Paul

Twist-in connectors do not provide the shielding that a CATV system needs.
They are a HUGE source of ingress/egress, and the return loss is rather low
(the higher the better. Hex-crimp fittings have ~18dB, and compression are
30dB). Plus, It actually takes more time to put on a twist-on connector
that it does to put on a real connector.

Compression fittings may cost a little more for the connector and the
installation tools, but cost less in labor (time) to install. Not to
mention the materials/time spent in replacing the twist-on connectors with
real ones when they don't work properly.

--

CIAO!

Ed N.


"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:c6jRh.4844$_43.4338@trnddc02...

"Paul Franklin" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:43:47 -0500, clifto wrote:

szilagyic wrote:
I am just trying to get an updated list of the top brands of RG-6 quad
shield coax cable. I have seen posts from a few years back mentioning
Belden, Carol, and Commscope, but I just wanted to get an updated
list. I have seen Carol and Zenith brands at local stores recently,
are these any good? Mainly going to use this cable for running feeds
from HDTV & analog TV antennas in the walls of a house.

My experience with a few Carol Cable products (including coax) has been
good. I would consider that the Zenith brand name appears to be rented
out to the best bidder these days (peruse a.h.r for recent stories about
Heath/Zenith products) and expect that the manufacturer spent most of the
cost of making that coax on the marketing of that coax.

Belden, Alpha and Carol are all good. As important as the cable are
the connectors. The compression type are the way to go, IMO. Invest
in a good QS stripper and a compression tool. Don't bother with crimp
tools and don't even think about twist-on.

HTH,

Paul


Hi Paul

What is the problem with "twist-ons"? I dont question your judgement,
but I have found them to be good for my 2 meter application.

Now I am considering doing some work at 2 GHz. This is a good time for
me to learn about cable and F connectors.

Thanks
Jerry

In article ,
Paul Franklin wrote:
On 6 Apr 2007 08:29:32 -0400, (Al Dykes) wrote:

In article ,
Paul Franklin wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 03:27:04 GMT, "Jerry Martes"
wrote:
snip
Belden, Alpha and Carol are all good. As important as the cable are
the connectors. The compression type are the way to go, IMO. Invest
in a good QS stripper and a compression tool. Don't bother with crimp
tools and don't even think about twist-on.



What's the diff between a compression tool and a crimp tool?


OT: I inherited break/fix responsibility (billable by the hour) on a
business thinwire lan that was installed by a TV cable guy. He used
twist-ons and no crimp rings. That site paid my rent for a couple
years, until I eventually replaced all the connectors with proper
ends.

For that reason, I've always looked fondly on twist-ons, in a bizzare
way.

The compression fitting have a captive sleeve on the cable end of the
fitting. You strip the cable more or less as usual, slide it up
through the connector as you would with a crimp type. But then the
compression tool presses the sleeve up into the body of the connector.
The inside is tapered, so when the sleeve is pressed in, it compresses
against the cable, locking it tightly into place.

Here's a pictu

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...=411&sku=41077

They are also available with seals for water resistant outdoor use.
(In fact, the picture is of a connector with seals.)

Here's what the tool looks like:

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...1403&sku=38011

Try 'em, you'll like 'em!

Paul



OK. It's a large, well engineered crimp tool and fitting.

I actually have tools, some cable, and a bag of ends that fit that
description. I just considered them standard tools and parts for
serious work. They came to me by accident. I was the "customer" for a
a pre-ethernet LAN built on CATV plant that spanned a 40 floor
building.
--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

Hex-crimp fittings have 6 points where the connector is pinched into the
cable creating small impedance mismatches. Impedance mismatch creates
reflection. If the reflection(s) is(are) severe enough, whatever is at
that(those) frequency (frequencies) may not work. Plus, their return loss
is a fair amount lower than that of compression connectors (~18dB as
compared to 30dB).

I've replaced hex-crimp fittings on DirecTV systems because of hex-crimp
fittings which were causing some channels to not work.

Go to http://www.cencom94.com/Download.html and check out DBS Tutorial.
Pages 12 & 13 illustrates why you don't want to use hex-crimp fittings.

--

CIAO!

Ed N.


wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 5, 9:50 pm, Paul Franklin
wrote:
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:43:47 -0500, clifto wrote:
szilagyic wrote:
I am just trying to get an updated list of the top brands of RG-6 quad
shield coax cable. I have seen posts from a few years back mentioning
Belden, Carol, and Commscope, but I just wanted to get an updated
list. I have seen Carol and Zenith brands at local stores recently,
are these any good? Mainly going to use this cable for running feeds
from HDTV & analog TV antennas in the walls of a house.

My experience with a few Carol Cable products (including coax) has been
good. I would consider that the Zenith brand name appears to be rented
out to the best bidder these days (peruse a.h.r for recent stories about
Heath/Zenith products) and expect that the manufacturer spent most of
the
cost of making that coax on the marketing of that coax.

Belden, Alpha and Carol are all good. As important as the cable are
the connectors. The compression type are the way to go, IMO. Invest
in a good QS stripper and a compression tool. Don't bother with crimp
tools and don't even think about twist-on.

HTH,

Paul

What are the common issues with the crimp-on connectors? I've been
using them here and there mainly because they are cheap. So far I
haven't really noticed any problems, but maybe it's because I haven't
used anything else to see an improvement. Thanks!!

--
Chris

On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:21:15 -0600, "Ed Nielsen"
wrote:

Twist-in connectors do not provide the shielding that a CATV system needs.
They are a HUGE source of ingress/egress, and the return loss is rather low
(the higher the better. Hex-crimp fittings have ~18dB, and compression are
30dB). Plus, It actually takes more time to put on a twist-on connector
that it does to put on a real connector.

Compression fittings may cost a little more for the connector and the
installation tools, but cost less in labor (time) to install. Not to
mention the materials/time spent in replacing the twist-on connectors with
real ones when they don't work properly.

A couple of years ago the house took a lightning strike that I deduced
damaged cabling provided by the cable system(Time-Warner). I removed
my additions and placed a service call. When the truck arrived I
showed them where I had dropped my stuff off the system and restored
their original configuration. After they fixed the connector arc-overs
they ran there signal leakage test. Then they requested I restore my
alterations and one by one they chased down ALL of the twist-on and
crimp connections that I had made and replaced them with their own
compression fittings. The results were better picture quality, zero RF
influence from the Ham Xmtr, and higher speed Internet.

I think I better invest in the connectors and tool to keep things
tidy.

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

In article ,
John Ferrell wrote:
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:21:15 -0600, "Ed Nielsen"
wrote:

Twist-in connectors do not provide the shielding that a CATV system needs.
They are a HUGE source of ingress/egress, and the return loss is rather low
(the higher the better. Hex-crimp fittings have ~18dB, and compression are
30dB). Plus, It actually takes more time to put on a twist-on connector
that it does to put on a real connector.

Compression fittings may cost a little more for the connector and the
installation tools, but cost less in labor (time) to install. Not to
mention the materials/time spent in replacing the twist-on connectors with
real ones when they don't work properly.

A couple of years ago the house took a lightning strike that I deduced
damaged cabling provided by the cable system(Time-Warner). I removed
my additions and placed a service call. When the truck arrived I
showed them where I had dropped my stuff off the system and restored
their original configuration. After they fixed the connector arc-overs
they ran there signal leakage test. Then they requested I restore my
alterations and one by one they chased down ALL of the twist-on and
crimp connections that I had made and replaced them with their own
compression fittings. The results were better picture quality, zero RF
influence from the Ham Xmtr, and higher speed Internet.

I think I better invest in the connectors and tool to keep things
tidy.


The 40-floor internal CATV system I was a customer of was very close
to, and LOS with the Empire State Building antennas. The cabling
engineers described the CATV system as one big antenna. Problems that
poped up tended to be a bad connector or a grounding problem. It wasa
data lan so if there was a problem we couldn't just tell theuser to
watch the ghosts until we got around to fixing it.





--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

Philo wrote:
"szilagyic" wrote in message
ups.com...

Hello,

I am just trying to get an updated list of the top brands of RG-6 quad
shield coax cable. I have seen posts from a few years back mentioning
Belden, Carol, and Commscope, but I just wanted to get an updated
list. I have seen Carol and Zenith brands at local stores recently,
are these any good? Mainly going to use this cable for running feeds
from HDTV & analog TV antennas in the walls of a house.

Thank you very much for all feedback,
--
Chris


Just do not worry about the cable; put 1/2" or preferably 3/4" ducts in the
walls.

Never place RF (or any) cable directly in concrete or masonry. If, for some
reason, you end up with a bad cable (soaked with rain water for instance)
you just have to pull it out and replace it. So you don't really need to go
for top brands and overrated and expensive cables.

Kind of depends on who's building your house. Conduit would be quite
unusual in most residential construction, and would be likely very
expensive. I suspect you could run 10 parallel runs of high quality
RG-6 without conduit and still cost a lot less than the conduit. Just
abandon a run if it fails. The labor for conduit installation
(especially if they are not already installing it) is high..

In most houses, the wiring is done after the structure is built, and the
electricians go through with a drill and spade bit and drill the studs
to run the cables. They have the flexibility to run the cable anywhere
convenient (for instance, around plumbing that is in the way).

You would want to remind the folks doing the installation that the
standard is to keep low and high voltage separated by more than 12", and
particularly (because it's not in the code) that you want decent bend
radii. Otherwise, they tend to string the cable and just pull it snug,
which will almost always bend it too tightly, particularly where they
come down from the attic through the header at the top of a wall.


There are flexible (plastic) conduits available which are somewhat
easier to route, but still, you run into a problem with drilling lots of
1.5" holes (to clear the od of the conduit) in studs that are only
3.5" wide. The inspectors don't like to see it, especially if all the
holes are lined up in a straight line. To them it starts to look like
the edge of a perforated ticket stub saying "tear here".



If you intend to place short stretches (less than 10 or 15 meters) for the
VHF range, use RG6 with solid polyethylene dielectric. If you have to place
important lengths for UHF of satellite MF bands, use RG11 with polystyrene
or foam dielectric. I used train loads of Commscope cable without to many
problems. They gave weird names to their cables like 6ST??? for RG6 type and
11ST??? for RG11. Always use RF cable with copper clad core as they work
best with F type connectors. Stay away from jacketted cables with "flooding
compoud", even for underground placement.

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 15:11:13 GMT, John Ferrell
wrote:

On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:21:15 -0600, "Ed Nielsen"
wrote:

Twist-in connectors do not provide the shielding that a CATV system needs.
They are a HUGE source of ingress/egress, and the return loss is rather low
(the higher the better. Hex-crimp fittings have ~18dB, and compression are
30dB). Plus, It actually takes more time to put on a twist-on connector
that it does to put on a real connector.

Compression fittings may cost a little more for the connector and the
installation tools, but cost less in labor (time) to install. Not to
mention the materials/time spent in replacing the twist-on connectors with
real ones when they don't work properly.

A couple of years ago the house took a lightning strike that I deduced
damaged cabling provided by the cable system(Time-Warner). I removed
my additions and placed a service call. When the truck arrived I
showed them where I had dropped my stuff off the system and restored
their original configuration. After they fixed the connector arc-overs
they ran there signal leakage test. Then they requested I restore my
alterations and one by one they chased down ALL of the twist-on and
crimp connections that I had made and replaced them with their own
compression fittings. The results were better picture quality, zero RF
influence from the Ham Xmtr, and higher speed Internet.

I think I better invest in the connectors and tool to keep things
tidy.

You'll wonder how you ever did without them. Ebay is a great source
for compression fittings. Keyword Digicon. I got my first tool for
Thomas and Betts and the T&B system. When the fittings became pricey,
I switched to Digicons. Since I didn't want to convert my tool all
the time, I grabbed an LCCT tool and fittings. My guy in the Detroit
area (about 50 miles away) sells me a few hundred at a time. I paid
$108 with shipping for 300 the last time and had them in about 30
hours from the time I placed my order.

Carl






John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

"Ed Nielsen" wrote in message
. ..
Hex-crimp fittings have 6 points where the connector is pinched into the
cable creating small impedance mismatches. Impedance mismatch creates
reflection. If the reflection(s) is(are) severe enough, whatever is at
that(those) frequency (frequencies) may not work. Plus, their return loss
is a fair amount lower than that of compression connectors (~18dB as
compared to 30dB).

I've replaced hex-crimp fittings on DirecTV systems because of hex-crimp
fittings which were causing some channels to not work.



Funny how it works where a bad connector will blank out just a couple of
cable chanels. First time this hapened to me about 20 years ago the cable
guy came out and said it was a bad connection. Almost laughed at him,but he
replaced the connector at the outside of the house and it cleared right up.