Phase Shift through a 75m Texas Bugcatcher Coil
 

"Jim Kelley" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 7, 7:26 pm, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:
"Jim Kelley" wrote in message

If it is not overpriced American Liberal Alma Mater then is "Yeah"????

You make a good point.

Nikola Tesla did more for the mankind than anyone produced by US
colleges.

Let's not get carried away. And I don't think Tesla was from
Yugoslavia.


He was born in Smiljan Lika, Serbia, Yugoslavia, studied at Carl University
in Prague. People know more about tinkerer Edison, than about greatest
engineering genius who gave us AC and so much.

Quite an insult to thousands of Slavic engineers immigrants who built
IBMs,
GMs, etc.

No insult to them was ever intended. They didn't write the paper by
any chance....??


Seemed to me implied: "Yeah" = mickey-mouse universities in Yugoslavia (or
Eastern Eu). For your information and based on my experience, Eu
Universities have much more rigorous programs and theoretical depth than
NA-U. When I was working for Big Blue, about half of the bright engineers
were graduates from Eastern Europe (post war imigration).

Can we discuss technical matters or rather play know-it-alls gurus?
Can you point out what is wrong with that paper?

I wish I understood this obsession you and Cecil have with gurus. I
don't share it.


It is more like reaction to people who are sometimes wrong and chime in on a
subject with: "hey stupid, it can't be" - parading as omnipotent gurus,
instead of asking questions and discussing the matter inteligently and
either defending their position or admitting that maybe we were not so
stupid and they COULD be wrong, and learn and get better.

What we perceive as "gurus" here, is a type of person who is wrong about the
subject, tends to get riding on a high horse putting down the opposition,
sometimes ridiculing and close minded to any, even elaborate explanation or
reasoning. Typically "guru" wants to have their last "right" word, even if
realizing that maybe they were wrong, never admitting or giving credit where
is due.

Looks like too much Woodstock generation getting into engineering and
forcing their "truth" to be the only one standing (Global Warming). If often
enough repeated in politics, it catches on with halfbright worshippers, but
has no place in science. Reality trumps theory, regardless who is trumpeting
it.

I am sorry that sometimes I get provoked and fire back in a like manner, but
when someone is trying to convince me that RF is behaving like DC current,
when I got burned my fingers on the bottom of the loading coil, then I just
react in kind.

About the paper; do you believe everything you read in the papers?
As I said, whether it is correct or not, I don't think it is
illustrated in Cecil's EZNEC printout.


If it is New York Times, definitely not. Technical papers? I would read them
carefully, take them with grain of salt, and if important to me, try to
understand it and I would verify it if possible.

Even if sometimes discussions get tangled here, because some just can't, or
don't want to get it, I am gratefull to those involved, because they bring
some points, that I would have not paid attention to and missed important
link in the chain of knowledge on the subject.

Another outcome is, that some subjects in current literature are not all
that properly described and warrant more detailed explanation and proof to
get corrected, and some discussions here shed some light at it and
highlinght need for more down to earth tutorial to set the record straight.

73, Jim AC6XG


73 Yuri, oK3BU

Phase Shift through a 75m Texas Bugcatcher Coil
 

Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
What we perceive as "gurus" here, is a type of person who is wrong about the
subject, tends to get riding on a high horse putting down the opposition,
sometimes ridiculing and close minded to any, even elaborate explanation or
reasoning.

What really gets my dander up are the gurus who use their
respected guru status to mount ad hominem attacks against
someone who they know is technically correct. In my book,
that is unethical behavior.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Phase Shift through a 75m Texas Bugcatcher Coil
 

Jim Kelley wrote:
"Let`s not get carried away. And I don`t think Tesla was from
Yugoslavia."

WebTV is owned by Microsoft and uses their search engine. Searching for
"radio amateur fact of the day from Tigertek" immediately turned up
their site. I scrolled down to find Tesla`s boat on their March 3
offering:
"On May 18, 1899, Nikola Tesla demonstrated a six-foot-long
radio-controlled boat to members of the Chicago Commercial Club. He had
designed and built the boat the previous year, but only few had seen it
prior to the Chicago Commercial Club demonstration. Club members saw
that could remotely start the boat`s motor, switch flashing boat lights
on and off, and navigate around a miniature lake that he created for the
demonstration. Individuals in the crowd shouted commands that he sent
wirelessly by radio, so that the astonished crowd could see that the
boat actually was being wirelessly-remotely-controlled. Copyright 2005
Tigertek, Inc.

It wasn`t until WW-2 and the U.S. invasion of Salerno when the Germans
tried to repel it using remotely controlled bombers, that radio control
was used so expertly.

I first read about Tesla in "Prodigal Genius", a book supplied by some
donor ro relieve the boredom aboard my navy ship in WW-2. I was a fiesel
engine nechanic interested in electricity and radio so I read it. Tesla
impressed me. He was more famous for his inventions of 3-phase electric
power, the induction motor, and harnessing the power of Niagra Falls for
electricity than he was for radio control. By all accounts he was born
in Yugoslavia, educated in Europe, and came to the U.S. to work for
Thomas Edison who was unimpressed with Tesla. So Tesla went to George
Westinghouse and made a deal.

Incidently. nothing exceeds the speed of light, not even photons which
are supposed to be massless at rest by Einstein`s special law of
relativity. You must have current before it creates a magnetic field.
Current is not instantaneous in any case in a conductor where the
electrons set in motion do have have mass.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Phase Shift through a 75m Texas Bugcatcher Coil
 

On May 8, 7:19 am, "Yuri Blanarovich" wrote:

He was born in Smiljan Lika, Serbia, Yugoslavia, studied at Carl University
in Prague. People know more about tinkerer Edison, than about greatest
engineering genius who gave us AC and so much.

You may be just a little biased when it comes to Tesla, but
understandably so. I am more of an enthusiast than a fanatic.

Seemed to me implied: "Yeah" = mickey-mouse universities in Yugoslavia (or
Eastern Eu).

It was a regretable choice. Cecil has that effect on me
occasionally. I did manage to control myself well enough to avoid
calling him a "guru" though. :-)

I wish I understood this obsession you and Cecil have with gurus. I
don't share it.

It is more like reaction to people who are sometimes wrong and chime in on a
subject with: "hey stupid, it can't be" - parading as omnipotent gurus,
instead of asking questions and discussing the matter inteligently and
either defending their position or admitting that maybe we were not so
stupid and they COULD be wrong, and learn and get better.

If only that were a two-way street.

What we perceive as "gurus" here, is a type of person who is wrong about the
subject, tends to get riding on a high horse putting down the opposition,
sometimes ridiculing and close minded to any, even elaborate explanation or
reasoning. Typically "guru" wants to have their last "right" word, even if
realizing that maybe they were wrong, never admitting or giving credit where
is due.

Evidently a matter of perception and partiality. Cecil has more 'last
words' on this newsgroup than any other contributer by an order of
magnitude, and fits the rest of your description to a tee.

Looks like too much Woodstock generation getting into engineering and
forcing their "truth" to be the only one standing (Global Warming). If often
enough repeated in politics, it catches on with halfbright worshippers, but
has no place in science.

'Current pileup' could be just such a phenomenon.

I am sorry that sometimes I get provoked and fire back in a like manner, but
when someone is trying to convince me that RF is behaving like DC current,
when I got burned my fingers on the bottom of the loading coil, then I just
react in kind.

Do I stand accused of trying to convince you that RF behaves like DC?
I'm not sure that's entirely fair. I so admit to discouraging belief
that RF behaves like magic.

Even if sometimes discussions get tangled here, because some just can't, or
don't want to get it, I am gratefull to those involved, because they bring
some points, that I would have not paid attention to and missed important
link in the chain of knowledge on the subject.

Another outcome is, that some subjects in current literature are not all
that properly described and warrant more detailed explanation and proof to
get corrected, and some discussions here shed some light at it and
highlinght need for more down to earth tutorial to set the record straight.

That's pretty much how I feel about it. I think it helps to keep an
open mind and consider all of the relevant facts.

73, Jim AC6XG

Phase Shift through a 75m Texas Bugcatcher Coil
 

Jim Kelley wrote:
Evidently a matter of perception and partiality. Cecil has more 'last
words' on this newsgroup than any other contributer by an order of
magnitude, and fits the rest of your description to a tee.

Gurus are individuals who already know everything there is
to know and are therefore incapable of learning anything
new. That's not me. That's the arrogant individual who lists
all the possibilities that might cause someone to disagree
with him and none of those possibilities is that he might
be wrong.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Phase Shift through a 75m Texas Bugcatcher Coil
 

On May 8, 9:26 am, Cecil Moore wrote:

Gurus are individuals who already know everything there is
to know and are therefore incapable of learning anything
new. That's not me.

So, that makes you the guy who says things like that about a person
just because he disagrees with him on a newsgroup.

ac6xg

Phase Shift through a 75m Texas Bugcatcher Coil
 

Richard Harrison wrote:

Incidently. nothing exceeds the speed of light, not even photons which
are supposed to be massless at rest by Einstein`s special law of
relativity. You must have current before it creates a magnetic field.
Current is not instantaneous in any case in a conductor where the
electrons set in motion do have have mass.

Hi Richard,

Perhaps it should be noted that electromagnetic waves and photons
travel neither faster nor slower than the speed of light in their
medium of travel.

73, Jim AC6XG

Phase Shift through a 75m Texas Bugcatcher Coil
 

"Jim Kelley" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 8, 9:26 am, Cecil Moore wrote:

Gurus are individuals who already know everything there is
to know and are therefore incapable of learning anything
new. That's not me.

So, that makes you the guy who says things like that about a person
just because he disagrees with him on a newsgroup.

ac6xg


It is not matter of disagreeing with person, more like discussing the
subject, finding out the reality (truth) and learning, sometimes admitting
of being off, or wrong, rather than defending the opposite, just
because.....

Many times I see that people do not bother trying to understand the problem,
researching it , but fire off "naaah, it can't be" and reduce their comments
to personal attacks.

Again, thanks to Cecil, Walt, Richard H and others for their contribution to
discussions, their persistence, it opened my antenna horizons and gave me
better understanding of wasaaaap with antennas. It will help me in my
further exploits and trying to build better arrays and taking advantage of
propagation modes and environment.

As a contester, I would encourage "gurus" to proclaim their "wisdom", for it
will confuse the competition and allow me to beat them by wider margin :-)
But as engineer, I would rather know the reality and what's behind it.

Just as an example: W8JI proclaims gospel on his web site that Beverage
antennas longer than 700 ft (on 160) are useless and waste of effort. When I
operated from W8LRL QTH and used his 3000 ft staggered phased JA Beverage, I
worked some 25 JAs, when rest of the East Coast hardly worked one or two.
Reality trumps over "guru theory" still insisting on his "gospel".

73 Yuri, K3BU

Phase Shift through a 75m Texas Bugcatcher Coil
 

Gene, W4SZ wrote:
"The current lags voltage principle does not settle anything in this
case."

W8JI claims that current flows into a turn at a coil end/s and is
induced without delay into all turns of the coil, overcoming delay that
the coil might otherwise impose.

If that were true, Terman would have told us so. In fact, Terman tells
us the opposite is true in explaning the traveling wave tube begining on
page 678 of his 1955 opus:

"The signal to be amplified is applied to the end of the helix adjacent
to the electron gun. Under appropriate operating conditions an amplified
signal then appears at the other end of the helix.-------inapplicable
info deleted-----. The applied signal propagates around the turns of the
helix and produces an electric field that is directed along the helix
axis. Since the velocity with which the signal propagates along the
helix wire approximates the velocity of light if the frequency is not
too low (caveat is unimportant, see footnote in book), the axial field
due to the signal advances with a velocity that is very closely the
velocity of light multiplied by the ratio of helix pitch to helix
circumference."

In other words, the axial advance is much like that of a threaded bolt
as the pitch angle is always fractional. Kraus details this in his
section on helical antennas.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Phase Shift through a 75m Texas Bugcatcher Coil
 

Yuri Blanarovich wrote:

Many times I see that people do not bother trying to understand the problem,
researching it , but fire off "naaah, it can't be" and reduce their comments
to personal attacks.

Apparently you don't see it as much of it as some of the rest of us do.

But as engineer, I would rather know the reality and what's behind it.

It's probably fair to say that's what motivates most of us, Yuri.
It's the one thing most of us here share in common, other than ham radio.

Just as an example: W8JI proclaims gospel on his web site that Beverage
antennas longer than 700 ft (on 160) are useless and waste of effort.

I am not Tom, and you are not Tom. Neither of us speaks for Tom. Tom
doesn't even have a dog in this fight as far as I know. So in the
interest of maximizing the signal to noise ratio around here, why
don't we each let the other just speak for himself. It's much too
gossipy otherwise (and not very 'engineer-like').

73, Jim AC6XG