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20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
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20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
"John, N9JG" wrote in message
. net... Yes, he spent a few bucks on this project! http://www.1982crew.com/PHP-Nuke/PDF/K9LTN.pdf my question is Why ? I mean he has the ability to do it obviously, and the technical to do it yes. But Why. Is it that much more over a standard 4 elem steppir at say 70 FT. It wont open propagation that isn't there ? Just seems a waste to me Scotty W7PSK |
20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
You have raised an interesting question - When do you reach the point of
diminishing returns? "R. Scott" wrote in message ... "John, N9JG" wrote in message . net... Yes, he spent a few bucks on this project! http://www.1982crew.com/PHP-Nuke/PDF/K9LTN.pdf my question is Why ? I mean he has the ability to do it obviously, and the technical to do it yes. But Why. Is it that much more over a standard 4 elem steppir at say 70 FT. It wont open propagation that isn't there ? Just seems a waste to me Scotty W7PSK |
20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
"John, N9JG" wrote in message . net... You have raised an interesting question - When do you reach the point of diminishing returns? "R. Scott" wrote in message ... "John, N9JG" wrote in message . net... Yes, he spent a few bucks on this project! http://www.1982crew.com/PHP-Nuke/PDF/K9LTN.pdf my question is Why ? I mean he has the ability to do it obviously, and the technical to do it yes. But Why. Is it that much more over a standard 4 elem steppir at say 70 FT. It wont open propagation that isn't there ? Just seems a waste to me Scotty W7PSK Im glad somebody tried it. Now If we can get the results we will know whether or not it is worth anyone else doing it. Jimmie |
20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
In message , R. Scott
writes "John, N9JG" wrote in message .net... Yes, he spent a few bucks on this project! http://www.1982crew.com/PHP-Nuke/PDF/K9LTN.pdf my question is Why ? I mean he has the ability to do it obviously, and the technical to do it yes. But Why. Is it that much more over a standard 4 elem steppir at say 70 FT. It wont open propagation that isn't there ? Just seems a waste to me Scotty W7PSK You don't need 'propagation' with an antenna like that. It produces its own ionization in the ionosphere. Ian. -- |
20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
"R. Scott" wrote in message ... "John, N9JG" wrote in message . net... Yes, he spent a few bucks on this project! http://www.1982crew.com/PHP-Nuke/PDF/K9LTN.pdf my question is Why ? I mean he has the ability to do it obviously, and the technical to do it yes. But Why. Is it that much more over a standard 4 elem steppir at say 70 FT. It wont open propagation that isn't there ? Just seems a waste to me Scotty W7PSK "Waste" like difference between magnifying glass and a microscope. You would not say that if you had a chance to be behind one of those. Antennas like that make their own propagation, when rest of the 3 - 4 el. slobs can't hear a thing, the real antennas like that can still do so for another hour or two, or just do it anytime. I had "just" couple of my stacked Razors and that extended my propagation over mortal Yagi variety by hour or two. I figured I had about 14 - 16 dBd on 15m from stacked 7 el. log Razors http://www.k3bu.us/razor_beams.htm If K9LTN had 6 Razors that would be a notch higher killer antenna. |
20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
Well, if i am not mistaken, in order to gain another 3 db, he would
have to setup another similar array. That would be twelve stepirs. Then for another 3 db, he would have to add yet another twelve stepirs. The second three steppirs only gained him 3 db over the first three and the second steppir only gained him 3 db over the first one. so, what does that three db mean? Buck, N4PGW On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:48:21 GMT, "John, N9JG" wrote: You have raised an interesting question - When do you reach the point of diminishing returns? -- 73 for now Buck, N4PGW www.lumpuckeroo.com "Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two." |
20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
"Buck" wrote in message ... Well, if i am not mistaken, in order to gain another 3 db, he would have to setup another similar array. That would be twelve stepirs. Then for another 3 db, he would have to add yet another twelve stepirs. The second three steppirs only gained him 3 db over the first three and the second steppir only gained him 3 db over the first one. so, what does that three db mean? Buck, N4PGW Yeah, I especially question the practicality of going from 4 antennas to 6. It picked him up less than 2 db, but doubled the physical size of the array - same width, twice as high. Tam/WB2TT On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:48:21 GMT, "John, N9JG" wrote: You have raised an interesting question - When do you reach the point of diminishing returns? -- 73 for now Buck, N4PGW www.lumpuckeroo.com "Small - broadband - efficient: pick any two." |
20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
Buck wrote:
Well, if i am not mistaken, in order to gain another 3 db, he would have to setup another similar array. That would be twelve stepirs. Then for another 3 db, he would have to add yet another twelve stepirs. The second three steppirs only gained him 3 db over the first three and the second steppir only gained him 3 db over the first one. so, what does that three db mean? Buck, N4PGW On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:48:21 GMT, "John, N9JG" wrote: You have raised an interesting question - When do you reach the point of diminishing returns? Three Db equals a doubling of power or halving of power depending on which way you are going. Dave WD9BDZ |
20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
"David G. Nagel" wrote in message ... Buck wrote: Well, if i am not mistaken, in order to gain another 3 db, he would have to setup another similar array. That would be twelve stepirs. Then for another 3 db, he would have to add yet another twelve stepirs. The second three steppirs only gained him 3 db over the first three and the second steppir only gained him 3 db over the first one. so, what does that three db mean? Buck, N4PGW On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:48:21 GMT, "John, N9JG" wrote: You have raised an interesting question - When do you reach the point of diminishing returns? Three Db equals a doubling of power or halving of power depending on which way you are going. Dave WD9BDZ If I looked at his numbers right, his vertical stacking is way too close (1/2 wave), and he won't get 3 DB. OTOH, he got himself a super 6 m antenna. Possibly enough for moonbounce. Tam/WB2TT |
20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
On 8 May, 11:32, wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:53:49 GMT, wrote: On Tue, 8 May 2007 16:47:56 GMT, "R. Scott" wrote: "John, N9JG" wrote in message s.net... Yes, he spent a few bucks on this project! http://www.1982crew.com/PHP-Nuke/PDF/K9LTN.pdf my question is Why ? 1500W * 100 (20db gain)= 20,000W ERP Gak! typo.... 1500W * 100 (20db gain)= 150,000W ERP not allowing for feed line loss and I saw heliax there so it should be low. Even if it's off by 3db 75,000 is a huge number. Allison With that you can work backscatter and really weak signals that would be missed with lesser antenna. Propagation is not a switch it's more like sahes of gray from nne at all to weak. I mean he has the ability to do it obviously, and the technical to do it yes. But Why. Is it that much more over a standard 4 elem steppir at say 70 FT. It wont open propagation that isn't there ? Yes, much more and with narrow beamwidth other noises are less an issue. People have ben doing this for years at VHF/UHF and those that do are heard, seriously heard. Must have cost a mint.. Allison- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
20 dB gain on 20 meters?!?
On 8 May, 11:32, wrote:
On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:53:49 GMT, wrote: On Tue, 8 May 2007 16:47:56 GMT, "R. Scott" wrote: "John, N9JG" wrote in message s.net... Yes, he spent a few bucks on this project! http://www.1982crew.com/PHP-Nuke/PDF/K9LTN.pdf my question is Why ? 1500W * 100 (20db gain)= 20,000W ERP Gak! typo.... 1500W * 100 (20db gain)= 150,000W ERP not allowing for feed line loss and I saw heliax there so it should be low. Even if it's off by 3db 75,000 is a huge number. Allison With that you can work backscatter and really weak signals that would be missed with lesser antenna. Propagation is not a switch it's more like sahes of gray from nne at all to weak. I mean he has the ability to do it obviously, and the technical to do it yes. But Why. Is it that much more over a standard 4 elem steppir at say 70 FT. It wont open propagation that isn't there ? Yes, much more and with narrow beamwidth other noises are less an issue. People have ben doing this for years at VHF/UHF and those that do are heard, seriously heard. Must have cost a mint.. Allison- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The gentleman spent a lot of money to get what HE wanted, the question is what does a radio ham want. This net puts their desires on gain but gain alone is not how one normally views an antenna for ones needs. Antenna books talk of compromise between attributes of an antenna which is an excellent platform for arguments since certain attributes are required for some but not considered worth while for others. So what can this anternna do? First I would say it would do a wonderful job of carrying news from overseas troops to their families that Goldwater did, a difficult task that was so worthwhile but necessarily costs a lot of money. Via antenna switching the operator can stay in contact with a particular area longer than most antennas. Unlike my personal experiences with a long boom antenna his tower can zero in on a station with a narrow bandwidth with out concern to environmental conditions. I noticed in the photographs that one of the people was in a wheel chair so he can be considered as being confined somewhat. If that person was a member of the family who would use this antenna set up how much cost would be considered as the right amount to give a child the best there is? My point is that as amateurs the antenna gives us all so much personal delight but only as a means of conversations that we enjoy .And such people have an assortment of antennas of different shapes and sizes that makes them equal to the antenna of the person thay are taking a delight in talking to. True such persons can be a holder of an antenna in a far off distant land and could be considered a large catch whereas others would hope for a wide beam antenna to encompass users of a particular net or an antenna that would allow him to cruise around a wide band without constant re adjustment of a matching system. I have found that not one antenna is in existance that will satisfy all or one antenna that could survive critisism from those who wish to be heard. What is important to hams is the extent of knoweledge that can be garnered from the experiences of those who deign to venture from the normal path. Who provides both good and bad details about his experiences so that all can build on the particulars that could well work for him rather than criticise those who get their enjoyment fiddling with antennas on either small or major scales. The man has built a huge antenna and probably at a huge expence but I would suggest that this venture will supply a lot of information about antennas that prior to this time the majority was not privy to. The man did what he wanted to do to further his interest in the hobby and even the lowliest of wire antennas will get the chance to contact the individual regardless of his circumstances for an enjoyable chat. Isn't that what ham radio is all about? Art is not what the general ham wants |
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