Cecil Moore wrote in message

I do think it's quite normal to have a slight taper, ....

Then you disagree with the guys who say it has no taper. Guess what,
Mark? That puts you on my and Yuri's side of the argument.

Maybe so, but I place much less importance on this than he does. To
me, it means very little, if anything. It surely will not effect how I
will design mobile antennas. After all, as Wes pointed out on his web
page, the change in radiation resistance is what really improves the
efficiency of a short loaded antenna. Not the current distribution in
itself. The improved current distibution is just a method used to
change the radiation resistance. Taper or no taper, in the usually
short 1 ft or so space a coil would occupy, "1/8 the length of a 8 ft
whip" the difference either way is not worth worrying about. And the
worrysome taper is only in the upper section of the coil, so really
it's less than 1/8 of the total antenna length. Most of the plots I
see are more bow shaped than a gradual taper due to the peak in
current. I'm glad Wes commented on the current peak...This was
something I had seen previously in modeling the antennas/coils a few
weeks ago, and had wondered about..
If we could do away with the high ground losses, we wouldn't need to
elevate the coils, or use hats. That's why often a base load 10-11m
vertical on a large car roof is about as good as a center load. Less
ground loss due to the better psuedo ground plane under the antenna.
MK

Mark Keith wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote in message
Then you disagree with the guys who say it has no taper. Guess what,
Mark? That puts you on my and Yuri's side of the argument.

Maybe so, but I place much less importance on this than he does.

You may also place less importance on strawberry ice cream than
he does.

To me, it means very little, if anything.

Yuri was accused of "Repeating misleading information". Here is
a typical response to one of Yuri's postings:

"You like to call names, insult people, and argue rather than take
the time to learn basic electronics. ... If you look at HOW an inductor
works, the current flowing in one terminal ALWAYS equals the current
flowing out the other terminal."

Note the word "ALWAYS". The ad hominem attacks upon Yuri is probably
one reason he considers the subject to be important.

Someone probably rejected relativity and said, "How much effect does
the orbit of Mercury have on the people of earth?"
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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"Someone probably rejected relativity and said, 'How much
effect does the orbit of Mercury have on the people of earth?' "
_______________

The word "effect," (result, consequence) is a noun. "Affect" is a verb (to
act upon, to change or to cause a change), and, probably the appropriate
word for the context of your post.

Perhaps the use of correct English would reduce reader confusion?

"Best regards"

RF

Richard Fry wrote:

"Someone probably rejected relativity and said, 'How much
effect does the orbit of Mercury have on the people of earth?' "

The word "effect," (result, consequence) is a noun. "Affect" is a verb (to
act upon, to change or to cause a change), and, probably the appropriate
word for the context of your post.

Nope, I said exactly what I intended to say. Before relativity, the prediction
for the orbit of Mercury contained an error. How much effect did that error
have on the people of earth?

Perhaps the use of correct English would reduce reader confusion?

Perhaps you had better review your rules of English. "Effect" was used
properly as a noun.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 17:23:10 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:
How much effect did that error have on the people of earth?
About as much as current taper in a coil.

About as much as current taper in a coil.

Uh, Huh, Huh

On 09 Feb 2004 01:12:18 GMT, oUsama (Yuri Blanarovich)
wrote:

About as much as current taper in a coil.

Uh, Huh, Huh
yeah, I thought that was good too. ;-)

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:04:45 -0600, "Richard Fry"
wrote:

"Someone probably rejected relativity and said, 'How much
effect does the orbit of Mercury have on the people of earth?' "
_______________

The word "effect," (result, consequence) is a noun. "Affect" is a verb (to
act upon, to change or to cause a change), and, probably the appropriate
word for the context of your post.

Perhaps the use of correct English would reduce reader confusion?

"Best regards"

RF

Hello RF,

From the Oxford English Dictionary
effect v. 1589
1. to bring about, to accomplish
...
4. confused with Affect

effect sb. 1812
1c. the amount of work done in a given time.

affect sb. 1626
1. a mental disposition

affect v. 1794
1. to aim at, seek

Correct English is, and has always been, a matter of usage within
context. Verbs can serve as Nouns and Nouns as Verbs. Further, even
clauses and phrases may serve as Nouns or Verbs. The English language
is rich with example. Languages such as French and Italian have
historically had the affect to effect a fixed and static meaning to
every word and thus affect rules of "correctness." This effect has
lead to those languages becoming museum pieces. The common usage of
"affect" generally implies a faddish mannerism (which is frequently
observed in this forum e.g. a lot posting is merely affectation).

However, as to the issue of the sentence:
"How much effect does the orbit of Mercury have
on the people of earth?"

"the orbit of Mercury" is the Subject with the Predicate "does have"
and the Compliment of "on the people of earth"

"How much effect" is an adverbial phrase modifying the Predicate
through describing degree using the noun "effect" modified by the
adjective "much."

Hence through usage, syntax, and definition, "effect" is a noun.

To test this usage, you can re-arrange the sequence to find:
"The orbit of Mercury does have how much effect on the people of
earth?" without changing the sense of the question. It is rather
stilted and perhaps "The orbit of Mercury has how much effect on the
people of earth?" flows better, but this, again, has no impact on the
noun usage of "effect."

The key to the analysis is found in the adverb "how" with the
proximity of the adjective "much" and "effect" a noun perfectly
offering the classic characteristic of degree.

In other words, the sentence is both grammatically correct and
conforms to your expectation. A better criticism would be that it is
gratuitous.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
In other words, the sentence is both grammatically correct and
conforms to your expectation. A better criticism would be that it is
gratuitous.

In other words, when you can't find anything wrong with what is
being said, reply with an ad hominem statement. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil Moore wrote in message
Then you disagree with the guys who say it has no taper. Guess what,
Mark? That puts you on my and Yuri's side of the argument.

Maybe so, but I place much less importance on this than he does.

You may also place less importance on strawberry ice cream than
he does.

I probably would. There are many other flavors I like better...

To me, it means very little, if anything.

Yuri was accused of "Repeating misleading information". Here is
a typical response to one of Yuri's postings:

"You like to call names, insult people, and argue rather than take
the time to learn basic electronics. ... If you look at HOW an inductor
works, the current flowing in one terminal ALWAYS equals the current
flowing out the other terminal."

Note the word "ALWAYS". The ad hominem attacks upon Yuri is probably
one reason he considers the subject to be important.

Thats fine, as long as he doesn't try to convince me it is. I have no
problem with anything he is doing. My only objection is to the early
claims that this amounts to gross error when modeling. It surely does
not. I'm not sure if he still believes this gross error exists or
not... MK