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20 gaussian questions for art
Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure
out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote:
Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art |
20 gaussian questions for art
"Dave" wrote in message news:ejVfi.3254$bj5.1297@trndny07... Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? This may help http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...Images &gbv=2 and http://www.frc.utexas.edu/meetings/HTPD04/austin.pdf |
20 gaussian questions for art
Hal Rosser wrote:
[stuff] Huh? And, I keep thinking he is into H & E fields! JS |
20 gaussian questions for art
On Jun 25, 1:10 pm, "Dave" wrote:
Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? I was tempted to ask this or something like it but art has never answered any of my questions. good luck |
20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays. |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable |
20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message oups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take? |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art |
20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message oups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary. |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 26 Jun, 16:15, art wrote:
On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One- - - - Gently stirred |
20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message oups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be? |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one |
20 gaussian questions for art
Art wrote:
"Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one." That response is incompatible with Art`s previous specification of an antenna resonant in its parts and in total. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI |
20 gaussian questions for art
Richard Harrison wrote:
Art wrote: "Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one." That response is incompatible with Art`s previous specification of an antenna resonant in its parts and in total. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI I think Art senses a Socratic interrogation developing here, that might be an attempt to discredit his ideas. People with theories don't like to have them questioned. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH |
20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message ups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message oups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax? |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message ups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG |
20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message ups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message ups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'? |
20 gaussian questions for art
On Jun 27, 8:18 am, "Tom Donaly" wrote:
Richard Harrison wrote: Art wrote: "Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one." That response is incompatible with Art`s previous specification of an antenna resonant in its parts and in total. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI I think Art senses a Socratic interrogation developing here, that might be an attempt to discredit his ideas. People with theories don't like to have them questioned. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH No, Tom, SOME people with theories don't like to have them questioned. I welcome questions. I welcome examples and counter- examples. I would hope anyone wanting a deeper understanding of the universe in which they live would want the same. I like Richard Feynman's image of a huge game board, like a chess board, but we can only see a small part of it, and only watch it over a short period of time. From what little we see, we try to figure out the rules of the game, but we can never be certain we've figured them all out. Accurate, honest reporting of observations is welcome, for it is through them that we can share in the learning. I do tend to distrust those who report observations and are unwilling to openly discuss them. Cheers, Tom |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message ups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art |
20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message ups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna? |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 27 Jun, 15:28, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First David before I go on others may jump in and take the thread away from you. If that occurres we can talk via E mail so that you are not penalised They can use another thread in parallel which I will respond to. This thread will remain a civil and academic interrogation as you have requested. .......... No, I would not stretch things that far based on just one element or one piece of a jigsaw puzzle A Yagi array is based on an array of elements not just one. You wanted to procede in small steps as provided by you, specific and to the point. For starters a Yagi array is planar and a Gaussian array antenna can be and usually , from my research, is otherwise. Note the Gaussian element is of random shape and height but always resonant and not necessarily tied to a 1/2 wl. Art |
20 gaussian questions for art
K7ITM wrote:
On Jun 27, 8:18 am, "Tom Donaly" wrote: Richard Harrison wrote: Art wrote: "Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one." That response is incompatible with Art`s previous specification of an antenna resonant in its parts and in total. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI I think Art senses a Socratic interrogation developing here, that might be an attempt to discredit his ideas. People with theories don't like to have them questioned. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH No, Tom, SOME people with theories don't like to have them questioned. I welcome questions. I welcome examples and counter- examples. I would hope anyone wanting a deeper understanding of the universe in which they live would want the same. I like Richard Feynman's image of a huge game board, like a chess board, but we can only see a small part of it, and only watch it over a short period of time. From what little we see, we try to figure out the rules of the game, but we can never be certain we've figured them all out. Accurate, honest reporting of observations is welcome, for it is through them that we can share in the learning. I do tend to distrust those who report observations and are unwilling to openly discuss them. Cheers, Tom Hi, Tom, You're right, I should have written "dogmas." Maybe that's wrong, too, though. At any rate, a vigorous discussion never hurt anyone. 73, Tom Donaly, KA6RUH |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 27 Jun, 16:11, art wrote:
On 27 Jun, 15:28, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First David before I go on others may jump in and take the thread away from you. If that occurres we can talk via E mail so that you are not penalised They can use another thread in parallel which I will respond to. This thread will remain a civil and academic interrogation as you have requested. ......... No, I would not stretch things that far based on just one element or one piece of a jigsaw puzzle A Yagi array is based on an array of elements not just one. You wanted to procede in small steps as provided by you, specific and to the point. For starters a Yagi array is planar and a Gaussian array antenna can be and usually , from my research, is otherwise. Note the Gaussian element is of random shape and height but always resonant and not necessarily tied to a 1/2 wl. Art- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - For those you may be interested I did not move to E mail it was just that the interogation stopped after my last response. Why I do not know but at least you know that the thread stopping was not due to anything on my part. Obviously this thread is now dead. Regards Art |
20 gaussian questions for art
art wrote:
For those you may be interested I did not move to E mail it was just that the interogation stopped after my last response. Why I do not know but at least you know that the thread stopping was not due to anything on my part. Obviously this thread is now dead. Regards Art Art: If you ever present enough data where a simple 3 element construction of your design might be attempted--I'll be there ... Regards, JS |
20 gaussian questions for art
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:34:17 -0700, John Smith I
wrote: art wrote: Obviously this thread is now dead. DOA is the technical term. If you ever present enough data where a simple 3 element construction of your design might be attempted--I'll be there ... He did that. You weren't there? The invitation was probably lost in the mail. This 3 element construction conformed to the conventional outcome of poor performance for having ignored first principles. Note that ignorance was a forced choice, not a haphazard accident. Arthur worked hard to design efficiency out of his theory. Optimization, ironically, is forced out of the goal of the software he uses to "optimize" through a crippled set of constraints. There are certainly a lot of conflicting goals here, but achieving a patent and validation here must be worth the pain. Reminds me of the "Life of Brian." What Arthur is laying claim to is his unique description of a jumble of elements that can only be expected to perform to the same degree of inadequacy. Hence, the gausssian arrays paradigm explains how a hodge-podge of elements, that through poor efficiency and total lack of consideration for effectively adding their phase contributions, present a muddled performance at best. I must admit that few patents deliberately seek to corner mediocrity. It has been long established through common sense that optimal performance is intrinsically related to all elements presenting a boresight alignment to the wave front such that each element offers the most efficient phase coupling. Arthur's paradigm explicitly decouples all efficient alignments (which is unpatentable as being long-standing usage of the common practitioner) to focus on deliberately enforced poor efficiency (which is patentable as this is no one's marketable goal). This poor focus is found both in terms of antenna development, and the expression of its particulars. In essence, the less Arthur says explicitly about his paradigm (choosing, instead to mock any questioner - or ignoring others like Herbert), then the less chance of his failure being evident. However, we do get glimpses of the chief characteristics: On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:13:21 -0700, art wrote: Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. We all note there is nothing here that sets gausssian arrays apart from standard ones - even to the point of noting there is nothing of an array in: On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:15:10 -0700, art wrote: i want to know the minimum number necessary. One Hence we find ourselves in an old arena with an historical match between gausssian arrays and fractal antennas, both claiming that the dipole is their legitimate claim drawn under their umbrella of uniqueness. 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC |
20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 27 Jun, 15:28, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message oups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First David before I go on others may jump in and take the thread away from you. If that occurres we can talk via E mail so that you are not penalised They can use another thread in parallel which I will respond to. This thread will remain a civil and academic interrogation as you have requested. ......... No, I would not stretch things that far based on just one element or one piece of a jigsaw puzzle A Yagi array is based on an array of elements not just one. You wanted to procede in small steps as provided by you, specific and to the point. For starters a Yagi array is planar and a Gaussian array antenna can be and usually , from my research, is otherwise. Note the Gaussian element is of random shape and height but always resonant and not necessarily tied to a 1/2 wl. Art no, the interrogation isn't over... it was just my bedtime. ok, so ignore the yagi for now. you classify a resonant random length wire as a gaussian element. is there any other essential characteristic besides resonance? How does 'equilibrium' fit into the description? |
20 gaussian questions for art
After poring myself mango margarita and energizing my dead brain cells, I am
cocluding that: We see all kinds of dormant "geniouses" coming up with antenna designs that defy the laws of physics and 100 some years of antenna developments. Claims to various miraculous new principles and patent applications aimed at those who have no clues about antennas, but are a potential suckers for commercialization. We know how the dipole or vertical work, their designs and factors affecting reduced size were beaten to death over 100 years and basic principles are known regardles if someone claims to have purple electrons skirting the laws of physics. Freaken fractals outdoing the full size radiators, EH splitting the atom and E - H fields, UofRI storing the energy in a coil, yadayadayada etc. Art's mumbo-jumbo troll and superiority of XG mechanical engineer over dumb amateurs is another pathetic example of trying to mirror his "patent" immortalizing his "invention" that director is a reflector and vice versa. Poor reflection on patent office and the "inventor". Yet another try with "Goosian soup", equilibrium and who knws what. I have been foolling around with radio and searching and designing killer antennas for some 50 years. In the category of horizontal beam antennas I designed my Razor Beams, which I believe produce the highest gain per booml ength (or number of elements) and decent pattern and bandwidth. They were tested in the numerous contest and nailed bunch of world records demonstrating their performance over other designs. If Art's Goose can beat that, I will write a check for $1000 to him and apologize for doubting his superiority. Judging by his posts on other subjects, I doubt that I would ever need to do that. So far it appears that it is just another Artroll and craving for arguments and attention. It is getting tiring and pathetic. Feeding the dipole and telling it that the electrons or photons are purple Gausians, is not going to change it to far-out performance, unless really, for 100 years of antenna engineering we were dumbasses amateurs, including W8JK. The glass is empty, time to ingore the drivell and gat back to real life and antennas. Time for the fine cigaaaar! 73, Yuri da bada k3BU/m |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 28 Jun, 12:42, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 27 Jun, 15:28, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First David before I go on others may jump in and take the thread away from you. If that occurres we can talk via E mail so that you are not penalised They can use another thread in parallel which I will respond to. This thread will remain a civil and academic interrogation as you have requested. ......... No, I would not stretch things that far based on just one element or one piece of a jigsaw puzzle A Yagi array is based on an array of elements not just one. You wanted to procede in small steps as provided by you, specific and to the point. For starters a Yagi array is planar and a Gaussian array antenna can be and usually , from my research, is otherwise. Note the Gaussian element is of random shape and height but always resonant and not necessarily tied to a 1/2 wl. Art no, the interrogation isn't over... it was just my bedtime. ok, so ignore the yagi for now. you classify a resonant random length wire as a gaussian element. is there any other essential characteristic besides resonance? How does 'equilibrium' fit into the description?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First of all we are talking about arrays and not just a single element . Now one must consider where to put the next element. If we are space concious it would seem that putting both elements close to each other but not as close as the wire dia compared to the spacing. This element has the same confines as the first element so one must attain resonance of both elements at the same time while in the proximetry of each other which allows for a descision loater as to which element/s is going to be driven. Ofcourse you will notice that major differences occurs to the norm because of the close proximetry of the elements. Since I suggested that we use 1/2 wave elements it would also be advisable at this time all elements straight but at different heights and angles to each other so that multishaped elements,which can be used, do not complicate the theme of what I am describing. ( The following side note goes beyond what the question is but I am sure it will help the further you travel down the road.) What we are now simulating is a Gaussian field with its normal pill box. Normally one only sees static particles in equilibrium but I have taken the liberty of adding the array elements upon which the static particles are resting upon and inside the arbitary border. |
20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message ps.com... On 28 Jun, 12:42, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message oups.com... On 27 Jun, 15:28, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First David before I go on others may jump in and take the thread away from you. If that occurres we can talk via E mail so that you are not penalised They can use another thread in parallel which I will respond to. This thread will remain a civil and academic interrogation as you have requested. ......... No, I would not stretch things that far based on just one element or one piece of a jigsaw puzzle A Yagi array is based on an array of elements not just one. You wanted to procede in small steps as provided by you, specific and to the point. For starters a Yagi array is planar and a Gaussian array antenna can be and usually , from my research, is otherwise. Note the Gaussian element is of random shape and height but always resonant and not necessarily tied to a 1/2 wl. Art no, the interrogation isn't over... it was just my bedtime. ok, so ignore the yagi for now. you classify a resonant random length wire as a gaussian element. is there any other essential characteristic besides resonance? How does 'equilibrium' fit into the description?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First of all we are talking about arrays and not just a single element . Now one must consider where to put the next element. If we are space concious it would seem that putting both elements close to each other but not as close as the wire dia compared to the spacing. This element has the same confines as the first element so one must attain resonance of both elements at the same time while in the proximetry of each other which allows for a descision loater as to which element/s is going to be driven. Ofcourse you will notice that major differences occurs to the norm because of the close proximetry of the elements. Since I suggested that we use 1/2 wave elements it would also be advisable at this time all elements straight but at different heights and angles to each other so that multishaped elements,which can be used, do not complicate the theme of what I am describing. ( The following side note goes beyond what the question is but I am sure it will help the further you travel down the road.) What we are now simulating is a Gaussian field with its normal pill box. Normally one only sees static particles in equilibrium but I have taken the liberty of adding the array elements upon which the static particles are resting upon and inside the arbitary border. whoa! too fast! lets talk about the minimum antenna, the 1/2 wave (or there abouts) resonant element. You said that was all i needed to make a gaussian antenna. So it doesn't have to be a classic dipole or any other specific shape, as long as it is resonant. But is resonance alone enough to classify it as a gaussian antenna? |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 28 Jun, 13:23, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message ps.com... On 28 Jun, 12:42, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 27 Jun, 15:28, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First David before I go on others may jump in and take the thread away from you. If that occurres we can talk via E mail so that you are not penalised They can use another thread in parallel which I will respond to. This thread will remain a civil and academic interrogation as you have requested. ......... No, I would not stretch things that far based on just one element or one piece of a jigsaw puzzle A Yagi array is based on an array of elements not just one. You wanted to procede in small steps as provided by you, specific and to the point. For starters a Yagi array is planar and a Gaussian array antenna can be and usually , from my research, is otherwise. Note the Gaussian element is of random shape and height but always resonant and not necessarily tied to a 1/2 wl. Art no, the interrogation isn't over... it was just my bedtime. ok, so ignore the yagi for now. you classify a resonant random length wire as a gaussian element. is there any other essential characteristic besides resonance? How does 'equilibrium' fit into the description?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First of all we are talking about arrays and not just a single element . Now one must consider where to put the next element. If we are space concious it would seem that putting both elements close to each other but not as close as the wire dia compared to the spacing. This element has the same confines as the first element so one must attain resonance of both elements at the same time while in the proximetry of each other which allows for a descision loater as to which element/s is going to be driven. Ofcourse you will notice that major differences occurs to the norm because of the close proximetry of the elements. Since I suggested that we use 1/2 wave elements it would also be advisable at this time all elements straight but at different heights and angles to each other so that multishaped elements,which can be used, do not complicate the theme of what I am describing. ( The following side note goes beyond what the question is but I am sure it will help the further you travel down the road.) What we are now simulating is a Gaussian field with its normal pill box. Normally one only sees static particles in equilibrium but I have taken the liberty of adding the array elements upon which the static particles are resting upon and inside the arbitary border. whoa! too fast! lets talk about the minimum antenna, the 1/2 wave (or there abouts) resonant element. You said that was all i needed to make a gaussian antenna. So it doesn't have to be a classic dipole or any other specific shape, as long as it is resonant. But is resonance alone enough to classify it as a gaussian antenna? Yes, if it is in place where it is determined to be resonant because that takes consideration of it's surroundings. If one takes the surroundings into account one is taking into account equilibrium I say this because this interrogation could then decide to move it and still call it a Gaussian antenna and say they have a gottcha! Please excuse me if I am a bit wary of how the questions are placed and for what reasons. But I don't want to be part of a word game where things can be misconstrued. Civility must be kept without being underhand if your intent is to be pure. Art KB9MZ....XG |
20 gaussian questions for art
"Yuri Blanarovich" wrote in message ... After poring myself mango margarita and energizing my dead brain cells, I am cocluding that: We see all kinds of dormant "geniouses" coming up with antenna designs that defy the laws of physics and 100 some years of antenna developments. Claims to various miraculous new principles and patent applications aimed at those who have no clues about antennas, but are a potential suckers for commercialization. We know how the dipole or vertical work, their designs and factors affecting reduced size were beaten to death over 100 years and basic principles are known regardles if someone claims to have purple electrons skirting the laws of physics. Freaken fractals outdoing the full size radiators, EH splitting the atom and E - H fields, UofRI storing the energy in a coil, yadayadayada etc. Art's mumbo-jumbo troll and superiority of XG mechanical engineer over dumb amateurs is another pathetic example of trying to mirror his "patent" immortalizing his "invention" that director is a reflector and vice versa. Poor reflection on patent office and the "inventor". Yet another try with "Goosian soup", equilibrium and who knws what. I have been foolling around with radio and searching and designing killer antennas for some 50 years. In the category of horizontal beam antennas I designed my Razor Beams, which I believe produce the highest gain per booml ength (or number of elements) and decent pattern and bandwidth. They were tested in the numerous contest and nailed bunch of world records demonstrating their performance over other designs. If Art's Goose can beat that, I will write a check for $1000 to him and apologize for doubting his superiority. Judging by his posts on other subjects, I doubt that I would ever need to do that. So far it appears that it is just another Artroll and craving for arguments and attention. It is getting tiring and pathetic. Feeding the dipole and telling it that the electrons or photons are purple Gausians, is not going to change it to far-out performance, unless really, for 100 years of antenna engineering we were dumbasses amateurs, including W8JK. The glass is empty, time to ingore the drivell and gat back to real life and antennas. Time for the fine cigaaaar! 73, Yuri da bada k3BU/m He may not know crap about antennas but I think he may be the greatest troll artist of all times. Jimmie |
20 gaussian questions for art
Jimmie D wrote:
... He may not know crap about antennas but I think he may be the greatest troll artist of all times. Jimmie Without doubt, the first antenna "was" before the theory/math was invented to define it ... Without a doubt, this WILL occur again, and if it already has, only if you do the construction will you know. The math/models have been defined within too narrow of parameters, indeed, it is easy to prove some of this math is based on sheer fallacy. The permeability/permittivity of "nothing" being involved demonstrates, at the very least, some things need redefining! nothing = 0 permeability = 0 permittivity; end of story. Now, let's find the real math ... JS |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 28 Jun, 16:04, John Smith I wrote:
Jimmie D wrote: ... He may not know crap about antennas but I think he may be the greatest troll artist of all times. Jimmie Without doubt, the first antenna "was" before the theory/math was invented to define it ... Without a doubt, this WILL occur again, and if it already has, only if you do the construction will you know. The math/models have been defined within too narrow of parameters, indeed, it is easy to prove some of this math is based on sheer fallacy. The permeability/permittivity of "nothing" being involved demonstrates, at the very least, some things need redefining! nothing = 0 permeability = 0 permittivity; end of story. Now, let's find the real math ... JS John, What is so interesting about all this is the arrival of that paper from the Russian scientist who is now head of the Russian nuclear industry where his delving into the history of Gauss showed that Gauss's assistant was responsible for taking some of Gauss's work and thus hiding(we will never know) any information that may have passed on to him before Gauss died. There is a gap of knoweledge here because Gauss gave up mathematics and took up with the Italian Observatory thinking a living could not be made via mathematics! The progression that I am describing may well be a casualty of that descision but now the information is to be revealed . If the information was known and made available to science at that time one could easily see Gaussian law providing the underpinnings of Maxwellian laws instead of being held to laws of others where the connection to statics was tenuous at best. Readers can find the Russian paper listed in the "Gaussian antenna planar form" thread of a few days ago on this newsgroup to get hold of the history of this mystery of a few hundred years ago to form their own detective story of yesteryear. Regards Art Unwin KB9MZ......XG |
20 gaussian questions for art
"art" wrote in message oups.com... On 28 Jun, 13:23, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message ps.com... On 28 Jun, 12:42, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 27 Jun, 15:28, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:24, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 27 Jun, 14:02, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message roups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:36, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 16:09, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 15:17, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 26 Jun, 14:21, "Dave" wrote: "art" wrote in message groups.com... On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Not necessary Dave. Richard is very familiar with the subject at hand as well as its underpinnings that can be understood by EEs and is providing a reference that will make all things clear. You asked for it and your wish is going to be granted in a clear and precise manner that you and the group have requested. You should now be able to build it yourself with out mumbo jumbo from me to confuse you. No need for me anymore, you now have an expert at your call. Don't forget Poyntings input. Art whats a 'Richard'?? I want to hear it straight from the source. I have asked over and over for you to define the terms and you can't put it into words this poor engineer can understand, so i thought we would try to build an example from the bottom up. but if you can't help with that then maybe the whole thing is just out of my reach and i should go back to good old yagis and phased arrays.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sounds reasonable if it sounds so reasonable, how many wires does it take?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - As many as you want and have fun. The subject is dead. Let it go Join the boiling water saga that is where the action is Art no, this is my subject so i'll say when it's dead... i don't want to know how many i can use, i want to know the minimum number necessary.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One ok, thats a start. assuming i want to operate on 14195khz, how long should the wire be?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Whatever wire you have throw it away and get a longer one ok, random length... can do. now how do i connect it to a piece of coax?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - O.K. For the last time I will go along until such time it is obvious you have other intentions.So I start again. Make a dipole of random shapes and heights that is resonant at your design frequency. Note the radiator can be any length as long as it is resonant. For the sake of this discussion or interrogation let us use a plain half wave dipole. The feed coax feeds the dipole at it's center in the normal way. Art KB9MZ......XG ok, so its a plain half wave dipole, fed with normal coax in the normal way. so what makes it 'gaussian'?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Because it's resonant at the desired frequency. This is the basic form of a Gaussian antenna which is also the starting point of a Yagi antenna if viewed as a single radiator Art so 'gaussian' == 'resonant' why didn't you say so in the first place? so a properly tuned yagi-uda array is a 'gaussian' antenna?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First David before I go on others may jump in and take the thread away from you. If that occurres we can talk via E mail so that you are not penalised They can use another thread in parallel which I will respond to. This thread will remain a civil and academic interrogation as you have requested. ......... No, I would not stretch things that far based on just one element or one piece of a jigsaw puzzle A Yagi array is based on an array of elements not just one. You wanted to procede in small steps as provided by you, specific and to the point. For starters a Yagi array is planar and a Gaussian array antenna can be and usually , from my research, is otherwise. Note the Gaussian element is of random shape and height but always resonant and not necessarily tied to a 1/2 wl. Art no, the interrogation isn't over... it was just my bedtime. ok, so ignore the yagi for now. you classify a resonant random length wire as a gaussian element. is there any other essential characteristic besides resonance? How does 'equilibrium' fit into the description?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - First of all we are talking about arrays and not just a single element . Now one must consider where to put the next element. If we are space concious it would seem that putting both elements close to each other but not as close as the wire dia compared to the spacing. This element has the same confines as the first element so one must attain resonance of both elements at the same time while in the proximetry of each other which allows for a descision loater as to which element/s is going to be driven. Ofcourse you will notice that major differences occurs to the norm because of the close proximetry of the elements. Since I suggested that we use 1/2 wave elements it would also be advisable at this time all elements straight but at different heights and angles to each other so that multishaped elements,which can be used, do not complicate the theme of what I am describing. ( The following side note goes beyond what the question is but I am sure it will help the further you travel down the road.) What we are now simulating is a Gaussian field with its normal pill box. Normally one only sees static particles in equilibrium but I have taken the liberty of adding the array elements upon which the static particles are resting upon and inside the arbitary border. whoa! too fast! lets talk about the minimum antenna, the 1/2 wave (or there abouts) resonant element. You said that was all i needed to make a gaussian antenna. So it doesn't have to be a classic dipole or any other specific shape, as long as it is resonant. But is resonance alone enough to classify it as a gaussian antenna? Yes, if it is in place where it is determined to be resonant because that takes consideration of it's surroundings. If one takes the surroundings into account one is taking into account equilibrium I say this because this interrogation could then decide to move it and still call it a Gaussian antenna and say they have a gottcha! Please excuse me if I am a bit wary of how the questions are placed and for what reasons. But I don't want to be part of a word game where things can be misconstrued. Civility must be kept without being underhand if your intent is to be pure. Art KB9MZ....XG equilibrium between what? |
20 gaussian questions for art
Dave wrote:
equilibrium between what? Equilibrium between an antenna element, of course. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote:
Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Posting check Art |
20 gaussian questions for art
On 29 Jun, 07:02, art wrote:
On 25 Jun, 13:10, "Dave" wrote: Ok, lets try it this way... step by step, inch by inch, we may yet figure out what this antenna is. First question: What is the least number of wires needed to build a gaussian antenna? Posting check Art Isaac Newton like scientist before him observed the World and the Universe for clues about what it was all about. He determined that each particle, each object, each planet all had their own gravitational centers. And where each minute particle was made of atoms etc all orbiting around each other in a state where these orbiting partcles were able to move in isolation with respect to other particles in orbit because all forces became balanced with respect to each other. This theory was based on observations on the make up of the universe around us. This balancing of parts and particles is called being in a state of equilibrium. If an exterior force was applied the Universe has a whole would rearrange itself to retain equilibrium by accomodation Thus we can see an element as something held together by equilibrium and where its constituent parts is a densily packed swarm of particles shaped in longitudinal physical form and where the surface of this entity has its surface completely covered by errant particles called electrons. This collection of particles are so densly packed that it appears to be a solid and where the make up of its constituent particls and atoms provide a distingtive appearance which allows identification with respect to other combinations of densly packed swarms of particles and atoms via weight, reflective qualities e.t c I have stated the above in a very generalistic way purely to give an understanding of the meaning of the word "equilibrium" which in a generalistic way can be seen as a somewhat stable existance of parts in concert with other parts in a three dimensional existance where its "stable" existance is created because of the totalility of all forces involved equals the sum of ZERO. Art Unwin KB9MZ....XG |
20 gaussian questions for art
Art invoked the name of Issac Newton to support Art`s claim of
equlibrium defining a Gaussian antenna. OK, Newton`s apple was in equilibrium until its support released the apple to the force of the earth`s gravity (more properly the mutual attraction between the apple and the earth but due to inertia the earth`s motion was insignificant). The apple fell at an acceleration of 32 feet per second per second if my recollection is correct. Gravitational force and electrical attraction force are different phenomena with vastly differing strengths so I don`t see a necessary correlation between the mass of an antenna and its electrical properties and performance. Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI |
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