wrote in message
...
Mike Kaliski wrote:

"Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)" wrote in message
news

OK, per the thread on "Question on grounding rods", I'm supposed to
use
8-foot grounding rods rather than twice as many 4-foot rods. I can
see
that.

But, we're built on a ledge, one big wide rock that stretches from the
seacoast to the Vermont state line (that's why they call New Hampshire
the
"Granite State"). I can get three feet depth at best before running
into
solid rock. An electrician friend of mine says I can drive the ground
rod
in at a 45-degree angle, but that would still run an 8-foot ground rod
to
a depth of more than 5.5 feet below the surface.

Can't be done.

So, what do I do next?

Rick

Check out some new builds in the area and see what earthing arrangements
are
being put in there. The new properties will obviously have to conform
with
the latest regulations. If the builders have to use a specially long
drill
rig, you might be able to bribe them to come and drill you a few new
holes.
Failing that, its welding a long tube onto whatever you have that will
drill
through granite and then spending a couple of days drilling downwards.
Radio
hams are supposed to be renowned for their ingenuity and determination
when
faced with tricky situations. Build an echosounder or ground resistivity
meter and scour the plot looking for a crack you can drive rods down
through? The possibilities for experimentation are endless.


What purpose would be served by putting a grounding rod in solid rock?

All codes/regs I've seen have alternatives for special situations like
this, such as buried plates or several horizontal, interconnected,
buried rods.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim

Yes, you're absolutely right. I was just thinking about how to punch down
through 8 feet of rock rather than the end purpose. Ground radials, plates
or earth mats buried as well as possible in the soil make a lot more sense.

Mike G0ULI

Mike Kaliski wrote:

wrote in message
...
Mike Kaliski wrote:

"Rick (W-A-one-R-K-T)" wrote in message
news
OK, per the thread on "Question on grounding rods", I'm supposed to
use
8-foot grounding rods rather than twice as many 4-foot rods. I can
see
that.

But, we're built on a ledge, one big wide rock that stretches from the
seacoast to the Vermont state line (that's why they call New Hampshire
the
"Granite State"). I can get three feet depth at best before running
into
solid rock. An electrician friend of mine says I can drive the ground
rod
in at a 45-degree angle, but that would still run an 8-foot ground rod
to
a depth of more than 5.5 feet below the surface.

Can't be done.

So, what do I do next?

Rick

Check out some new builds in the area and see what earthing arrangements
are
being put in there. The new properties will obviously have to conform
with
the latest regulations. If the builders have to use a specially long
drill
rig, you might be able to bribe them to come and drill you a few new
holes.
Failing that, its welding a long tube onto whatever you have that will
drill
through granite and then spending a couple of days drilling downwards.
Radio
hams are supposed to be renowned for their ingenuity and determination
when
faced with tricky situations. Build an echosounder or ground resistivity
meter and scour the plot looking for a crack you can drive rods down
through? The possibilities for experimentation are endless.


What purpose would be served by putting a grounding rod in solid rock?

All codes/regs I've seen have alternatives for special situations like
this, such as buried plates or several horizontal, interconnected,
buried rods.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim

Yes, you're absolutely right. I was just thinking about how to punch down
through 8 feet of rock rather than the end purpose. Ground radials, plates
or earth mats buried as well as possible in the soil make a lot more sense.

Mike G0ULI

There are other conciderations as well such as is this an electrical
ground to meet some code, a lightning protection ground to keep your
insurance in force, or an RF ground to make your antenna work?

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text" in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did. On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.


On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:20:37 GMT, "Dave" wrote:


"Rick" wrote in message
...
Hey Guys,
Being such technical experts as we all are, the concept of "quoted text"
in
newsgroup articles is far less complicated than any technical subject
related
to antennas or grounding.
Simply, it means when replying to a newsgroup article, the quoted text is
the
text from the previous articles that you leave in your posting when you
send
it.
Being that most of us read several of the articles in the thread at the
same
time we really do not need all of the previous article to see what you are
talking about. In fact only a few lines would show us what portion of the
text you are commenting on if even that.

When you quote the entire article, we have to hunt through it to see where
you
are placing your comments or scroll all the way to the bottom to see where
your few lines of info lie.

I just received a 78 line article where the poster added 3 lines of his
own
data..........

If you find this subject difficult to understand, all I am saying is when
you
reply to a posting, just highlight all or most of the previous material
and
hit the delete key. Not really difficult.

Thanks,

Rick K2XT

and when you completely change the topic (in this case from ledge to a news
group scolding) you should change the message topic, like the previous
poster did.

Oh you're right. I got it now. But you didn't.
Actually I didn't change the topic. I posted it in the newsgroup where the
offenders were, so they might see it.
I'm not trying to start a fight, just improve things a little.

Rick

I am glad that you did not also lecture us on the additional elements of
posting style
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Top-posting

"Rick" wrote in message
...
[snip]

Oh you're right. I got it now. But you didn't.
Actually I didn't change the topic. I posted it in the newsgroup where
the
offenders were, so they might see it.
I'm not trying to start a fight, just improve things a little.

Rick

"John, N9JG" wrote in message
. net...
I am glad that you did not also lecture us on the additional elements of
posting style
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Top-posting

"Rick" wrote in message
...
[snip]

Oh you're right. I got it now. But you didn't.
Actually I didn't change the topic. I posted it in the newsgroup where
the

i prefer middle posting.

offenders were, so they might see it.
I'm not trying to start a fight, just improve things a little.

Rick

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:10:05 +0000, Rick wrote:

Oh you're right. I got it now. But you didn't.
Actually I didn't change the topic. I posted it in the newsgroup where
the offenders were, so they might see it. I'm not trying to start a
fight, just improve things a little.

Good evening, Rick.

Well, I (and presumably others) would have been a lot happier if you
hadn't done it by "hijacking" the "we're on a ledge" thread.

When you do a followup (reply) to a topic and just change the topic, it
messes up threaded newsreaders big time, so that now every time a new
article comes in on the "Quoted text" thread, I get a notification that
something came in on my "we're built on a ledge" thread when it's really a
completely different topic entirely.

In the future please, PLEASE start a new thread rather than replying to an
old one if you're going to change the topic.

Thanks...