"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message
...
But, I suppose that believing, as did an earlier poster:
"Bear in mind that 2.4GHz is also an amateur band where no erp limits
exist!!"
is acceptable for these No-Code, No-Klew Licensees?

That's what you get when at least the ARRL seems to be primarily interested in
keeping the number of amateurs high even as society in general seems to be
less and less willing to work a little for a bit of knowledge.

Significant power is still hard enough to come by at 2.4GHz that most of them
will probably run out of interest or money before doing *too* much damage. :-)
That being said, it's not like you need that much power to go impressive
distances anyway; see: http://www.wifiworldrecord.com/ .

---Joel

Dave Martindale wrote:

"mike" writes:

Hi Jerry, Please review the picture I posted on
alt.binaires.schematics.electronic
in it you will see I'm trying to avoid connectors and cable carrying 2.4Ghz
R.F.
Thanks for being the only poster to have anything near a response to my
post.

Do note that many people's Usenet servers do not carry any binaries
groups, so they will be unable to look at your picture. If you were to
place the photo on a server where it can be accessed by HTTP or FTP,
these people would be able to get it. Many ISPs provide some web space
served by their own web server, and there are free photo hosting sites
like flickr.

Dave


http://www.usenet-replayer.com/group...lectronic.html

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:lePpi.8517$Ub7.1313@trnddc04...

"mike" wrote in message
...

"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:KGKpi.5345$Da.3887@trnddc07...

"amdx" wrote in message
...
Please see subject line-- Help, Wifi Antenna-- on
alt.binaires.schematics.electronic
for a picture of my concept.
Looking to combine Helical antenna and Wifi adapter card in one unit.
My experience is limited to MW bcb. I know there are many pitfalls at
2.4Ghz, so I'm looking for feedback on how to do this properly.
I'm using the following page as my guide.
http://www.wlan.org.uk/jhecker.html

This is to extend the range of my laptop computer.

Mike

Hi Mike

You sure find some great information on the Web.

I consider this article Jason Hecker publishes
http://www.wlan.org.uk/jhecker.html to be ALL the instructions anyone
would need for constructing a 20 dB directivity WiFi antenna. I am
looking for some feedback from you on its performance.

If you plan to investigate basic effects of changing size and shape of
Helix antennas, EZNEC sure makes Helix antenna investigation easy.

I am just curious, what kind of coax and connectors are you using, and,
?how much coax?.

Jerry
Hi Jerry, Please review the picture I posted on
alt.binaires.schematics.electronic
in it you will see I'm trying to avoid connectors and cable carrying
2.4Ghz R.F.
Thanks for being the only poster to have anything near a response to my
post.
Mike


Hi Mike

My computer skills are really lacking. I dont know how to view your
images. I do spend alot of time learning about antennas. One of my
buddies tells me that he had poor results with the helix he built from the
instructions you cited. This site seems to have been better for my buddy.
http://www.pa0hoo.tk/.
Is it practical for you to use a Bridge at the input terminals of your
gain antenna so that the coax loss is minimized? That way, the antenna
(+Bridge) is connected to the computer with CAT 5 cable.
If it isnt too complicated, tell me how to view your images.

Thanks
Jerry


Hi Jerry,
I posted the drawing on another newsgroup called
alt.binaires.schematics.electronic
Not all ISPs carry binairy files so maybe you can't see it, if your address
is good I'll
email the drawing.
I looked at the site and it discouraged me. One site says 34mm diameter
tube another
42mm, one says a 71mm impedance match strip then another says it's longer. I
have no
way to measure the antenna when finished so I'd like to at least start with
the right
dimensions. I will say at least the site you gave does have some equipment
and his
measurements and reasoning make sense.
What is a bridge? I plan on putting a Usb wifi adapter at the antenna.
I hope to remove the smt antenna on the USB wifi card and attach the helical
antenna.
Thanks, Mike

"Chuck Olson" wrote in message
...

"amdx" wrote in message
...
Please see subject line-- Help, Wifi Antenna-- on
alt.binaires.schematics.electronic
for a picture of my concept.
Looking to combine Helical antenna and Wifi adapter card in one unit.
My experience is limited to MW bcb. I know there are many pitfalls at
2.4Ghz, so I'm looking for feedback on how to do this properly.
I'm using the following page as my guide.
http://www.wlan.org.uk/jhecker.html

This is to extend the range of my laptop computer.

Mike

The Wifi Helical antenna is an awful lot of work, and the performance of
even long structures on PVC tubing is vastly disappointing. The easiest 15
dBi (my measurement) gain antenna is the Biquad. In fact, if you make the
biquad with circular instead of square loops, the construction is even
easier, and there's no problem measuring with all those bends - - just one
wavelength of straight wire in a circular loop for each section - -
http://www.wikarekare.org/Antenna/bicircle.html But try to keep a 50-ohm
coaxial configuration all the way to the feed points as in
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~redwood4/ It isn't necessary to keep the
polyethylene insulation - - for a short length of air insulated coax, the
tubing ID should be 2.25 times the center conductor OD for 50 ohms
impedance.

If you are like me, you will probably want to build the Helical anyway - -
just to see, and perhaps to compare against the two easiest wifi antennas
with decent performance - Biquad and Waveguide
http://www.saunalahti.fi/elepal/antenna2.html The easiest waveguide can is
the 83mm ID one you get with the 28oz size of Bush's Baked Beans or any of
a
number of other products like canned spaghetti sauce or family size
Spaghettis.

See if you can get a USB Wi-Spy Spectrum Analyzer module, too - - try to
find one of the original (no external antenna - - cheaper) versions, and
just put it in your own shielding enclosure and make your own modification
to cut the path to the built-in antenna so that you can run a small coax
to
a connector on the box for your own external antenna connection. This kind
of modification has been made by others - -
http://www.metageek.net/default.aspx...5&view =topic
scroll down to the post by pe2er on 9/9/06 showing how to connect a coax
to
the board. I used a type N connector on my enclosure because it's
universal
and strong, and filtered the three USB supply and signal wires with
feed-thru capacitors so no RF can enter the enclosure through these other
paths. Use Metageek.'s Chanalyzer software to run the Wi-Spy module - -
preferably version 2.0 before the current 2.1.4 came out, since the need
for
compatibility with both the $199 Wi-Spy and the $399 Wi-Spy made operation
with the $199 Wi-Spy somewhat unsatisfactory. Maybe you can ask Metageek
to
allow access to previous Chanalyzer 2.0 for owners of the older units. Why
do you want all this? So you can make accurate measurement of the
differences between antennas, using a reference 1/2-wave dipole, or the
standard RPSMA antenna you find on most Wifi Routers. The dB calibration
of
the Chanalyzer display is very accurate.

Chuck W6PKP


Thanks Chuck,
That BiQuad seems very simple and 14dbi seems like a lot for a simple
small antenna.
As for all the other fun stuff, not now, all I want now is internet access.
But I need some gain.
I'm still waiting for my USB wifi adapter card to arrive. I hope to have an
antenna ready to
connect to the USB wifi adapter card.
Mike

amdx wrote:

If you wish to use a router/switch/adapter with a fixed antenna, this
page may be helpful:

http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/template/

Regards,
JS

Thanks Chuck,
That BiQuad seems very simple and 14dbi seems like a lot for a simple
small antenna.
As for all the other fun stuff, not now, all I want now is internet access.
But I need some gain.
I'm still waiting for my USB wifi adapter card to arrive. I hope to have an
antenna ready to
connect to the USB wifi adapter card.
Mike

Hi Jerry,
I posted the drawing on another newsgroup called
alt.binaires.schematics.electronic
Not all ISPs carry binairy files so maybe you can't see it, if your
address is good I'll
email the drawing.
I looked at the site and it discouraged me. One site says 34mm diameter
tube another
42mm, one says a 71mm impedance match strip then another says it's longer.
I have no
way to measure the antenna when finished so I'd like to at least start
with the right
dimensions. I will say at least the site you gave does have some equipment
and his
measurements and reasoning make sense.
What is a bridge? I plan on putting a Usb wifi adapter at the antenna.
I hope to remove the smt antenna on the USB wifi card and attach the
helical antenna.
Thanks, Mike


Hi Mike

I am too much 'a beginner' to be a good advisor for how to hook up devices
for WiFi reception. So, I wont try to define what a Bridge is. I will do
about anything (affordable) that allows the elimination of the coax in a 2.4
GHz system.
I do have some experience with making WiFi systems to extend the distance
at which Internet connections can be achieved. On one system I made for a
guy in Ranchita Calif, who has an agricultural business about 1/4 mile from
his house. I put an access point on a 4 foot diameter dish so he uses only
CAT 5 cable from his home Router to illuminate the dish. I then put a
Bridge on a smaller dish with CAT 5 cable to connect that dish to his lap
top in the field. It worked. My objective was to be able to use highly
directive antennas yet minimize coax line losses.
I think the use of a USB wireless adapter (TRENDnet TEW-445UB) Would be
easier than the way I made my system. Show Me cables sells reversing
polarity adapters that make it possible to use normal SMA connectors to the
TRENDnet USB TEW-445UB

Your project interests me. Tell me what you finally decide to do.
I have rejected the Helix. They are more difficult for me to understand
than a Yagi. The Helix is circularly polarized, so you loose 3 dB "off the
top" of any gain (directivity) plots. The Yagi is fairly easy to model with
EZNEC, so you can be fairly well assured that whatever you build will work
like the model.

Jerry

"Jerry Martes" wrote in message
news:aqSpi.3837$7w.79@trnddc05...



Hi Jerry,
I posted the drawing on another newsgroup called
alt.binaires.schematics.electronic
Not all ISPs carry binairy files so maybe you can't see it, if your
address is good I'll
email the drawing.
I looked at the site and it discouraged me. One site says 34mm diameter
tube another
42mm, one says a 71mm impedance match strip then another says it's
longer. I have no
way to measure the antenna when finished so I'd like to at least start
with the right
dimensions. I will say at least the site you gave does have some
equipment and his
measurements and reasoning make sense.
What is a bridge? I plan on putting a Usb wifi adapter at the antenna.
I hope to remove the smt antenna on the USB wifi card and attach the
helical antenna.
Thanks, Mike


Hi Mike

I am too much 'a beginner' to be a good advisor for how to hook up
devices for WiFi reception. So, I wont try to define what a Bridge is.
I will do about anything (affordable) that allows the elimination of the
coax in a 2.4 GHz system.
I do have some experience with making WiFi systems to extend the distance
at which Internet connections can be achieved. On one system I made for
a guy in Ranchita Calif, who has an agricultural business about 1/4 mile
from his house. I put an access point on a 4 foot diameter dish so he
uses only CAT 5 cable from his home Router to illuminate the dish. I then
put a Bridge on a smaller dish with CAT 5 cable to connect that dish to
his lap top in the field. It worked. My objective was to be able to
use highly directive antennas yet minimize coax line losses.
I think the use of a USB wireless adapter (TRENDnet TEW-445UB) Would be
easier than the way I made my system. Show Me cables sells reversing
polarity adapters that make it possible to use normal SMA connectors to
the TRENDnet USB TEW-445UB

Your project interests me. Tell me what you finally decide to do.
I have rejected the Helix. They are more difficult for me to
understand than a Yagi. The Helix is circularly polarized, so you loose
3 dB "off the top" of any gain (directivity) plots. The Yagi is fairly
easy to model with EZNEC, so you can be fairly well assured that whatever
you build will work like the model.

Jerry
Jerry, I was thinking you would come back and say a bridge is the same as a
usb wifi adapter, but I guess not. Have you looked at my drawing I sent
you?
Mike

In article ,
amdx wrote:

Jerry, I was thinking you would come back and say a bridge is the same as a
usb wifi adapter, but I guess not.

Mike,

If I may chime in here...

In somewhat-simplified Ethernet-networking terms, a "bridge" is a
device which joins two Ethernet segments together, by forwarding
Ethernet packets from one network to the other based on the Ethernet
MAC address of the system to which the packet is being sent. It makes
the decision to forward (or not) without changing (or even acting
upon) their contents at any higher protocol level (e.g. IP address).
An Ethernet switch is a form of bridge. In most respects, a bridge is
"invisible" to the systems whose packets it is forwarding - they don't
even know it's there.

This is distinguished from a router, which makes the forwarding
decision based on a higher-level protocol (e.g. IP address), and which
is "known" directly to the systems that are using it.

An 802.11 access point tends to behave like a bridge, from the point
of view of those devices which are connected to its wired-Ethernet
ports. The devices whose packets are being bridged (via radio) out
through the access point don't realize that this is occurring.

In most 802.11 applications, the wireless client systems *do* know
that they're talking to an access point - they do all of the 802.11
protocol stuff (e.g. access-point scanning, requesting association,
the client side of key negotiation, etc.) themselves, in the device
adapter or firmware or driver. The USB or PCI 802.11 interfaces in
these devices are *not* bridges.

However, it's possible to build a device which looks outwardly like an
802.11 access point, in that it has a radio and antenna(s) and an
Ethernet port, but which implements the _client_ side of 802.11 rather
than the access-point side. You can then connect this to a PC (via
wired Ethernet), and *it* will establish an 802.11 connection with an
existing access point, and then start bridging packets from the wired
Ethernet to the access point. The PC plays no direct part in the
wireless connection setup - it simply transmits packets to what it
"thinks" is a hub or switch, and the "wireless bridge" sends them to
the access point.

You'll sometimes see these devices referred to as a form of "gaming
adapter", because they often have higher performance than typical USB
or PCI 802.11 adapters and don't burden the host CPU as much... and
are thus popular with players of high-performance PC videogames.

Many of the newer all-in-one "802.11 access point, router,
firewall, and wired-Ethernet switch" products can be configured in
this way via software... they'll take the client role in an 802.11
network just as happily as the role of an access point. Most of them
cannot do both things at once - they can serve as an outbound bridge,
or as an access point for a local WLAN, but not both.

So, I think you have at least three basic alternatives for how you can
set up the remote/client end of a longer-distance wireless link:

- Run a big, heavy low-loss coaxial cable from your PC's 802.11
adapter antenna jack, up to your antenna (dish or biquad or helical
or waveguide-can). For really low loss over long distances, plan
on using something like 2" heliax (which is to say, you really
don't want to do this!)

- Run a USB cable (extended as necessary with 15' "active" USB
repeater cables) up to the antenna, and connect a USB/802.11
adapter there (e.g. stick the adapter at the focal point of a dish,
or at the feedpoint in a waveguide can). Google for "Wok-fi".

- Run a CAT-5 Ethernet cable and DC power up to the dish, install an
802.11 bridge right at the antenna, and connect the Ethernet cable
to your PC's wired-Ethernet port.

It's worth noting that most methods of attaching an external antenna
to a commercial 802.11 adapter are likely to void the adapter's Part
15 certification, and make the adapter techically illegal to use for
transmission. 802.11 radios and their associated antennas are
required to be tested and certificated as a complete system.

I've rarely heard of anyone being hassled by the FCC for doing this,
though.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:13:26 -0500, "amdx" wrote:

Help, Wifi Antenna

Looking to combine Helical antenna and Wifi adapter card in one unit.
I know there are many pitfalls at
2.4Ghz, so I'm looking for feedback on how to do this properly.

This is to extend the range of my laptop computer.

Why not to use an older 802.11g
Usb Wlan stick (good one w/ onboard chip smd ceramic antenna, much
better than w/ Pcb printed one) & some "metal" DIY "range enhancers"
? :-)

See pics & data & measures in cm
to get some clues & ideas
(text is in my native-slovene, so you won´t understand it;
sorry, still had no time to make an english version of that articles
for those UsbKey active antennas; inside URLs can be also seen at
wish...)

DIY wifi USBkeY range Enhancers-boosters ´4 Dummies´ :-)
http://www.wlan-sat.com/modules.php?...=26476#264 76

Ultimate wifi antenna TinCan Enhancers - part-2 ... :-)
http://www.wlan-sat.com/modules.php?...ewtopic&t=4782

problems with Usb cable lenght limitation? No more even w/o powered
hubs ... :-) (DIY, custom up to 21m, all data in english there on
schematics!))

http://www.wlan-sat.com/modules.php?...ewtopic&t=4216

Have fun! :-)


There is also to check other stuff at wish:

Default Wlan Pci Card antenna_on_cable Enhancer 6dBi
http://www.wlan-sat.com/modules.php?...ewtopic&t=3847

Cornet enhancers for some different type antennas up to 12dBi
http://www.wlan-sat.com/modules.php?...ewtopic&t=4241

& also parabolic pot or wok cover (+ bucket shape add-on) "passive"
antenna experiment with at least 20dBi gain:
STâ„¢-maxX antena (= project-X) 21dbi
http://www.wlan-sat.com/modules.php?...ewtopic&t=3993

well, I think that now you´ve got enough material (pics &
drawings/sketches) to check & maybe try some stuff by yourself :-))
--
Regards , SPAJKY ®
mail addr. @ my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
5y - "Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"

" Well.. not all the 802.11b/g channels are in the amateur band, and even
there, there is a power limit (transmitter output power, though, not
EIRP), so you could conceivably fire up your 1500 Watt transmitter into a
20dBi antenna and blast away.


That is what the moonbounce operators do, but with more antenna gain!!

There is the other rule about minimum power needed for communication,
though.

Again moonbounce is not uncommon in the 13cms band.

Jeff