On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:12:26 +0100, Jeff wrote:

Note that in almost all places there are legal limitations on EIRP
(Effective Incident Radiated Power). In plain English, the more
you narrow a signal, the stronger it becomes.

Since you did not say where you are, I'll mention the two places I
know for sure. In the U.S. WiFi EIRP is limited to 1 watt for
mobile/portable use (e.g. laptops) and 4 watts for fixed links.

Bear in mind that 2.4GHz is also an amateur band where no erp limits exist!!

Oh , really ?! cite!

That may be true but to use it that way legally you would need an
amateur license, and this is not just a paperwork exercise, you have to
pass FCC exams covering electronics and radio theory (plus laws and
regulations) to get one. For most people, it's not an option.

Allodoxaphobia wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:12:26 +0100, Jeff wrote:
Note that in almost all places there are legal limitations on EIRP
(Effective Incident Radiated Power). In plain English, the more
you narrow a signal, the stronger it becomes.

Since you did not say where you are, I'll mention the two places I
know for sure. In the U.S. WiFi EIRP is limited to 1 watt for
mobile/portable use (e.g. laptops) and 4 watts for fixed links.
Bear in mind that 2.4GHz is also an amateur band where no erp limits exist!!

Oh , really ?! cite!

"Barry Watzman" wrote in message
...
That may be true but to use it that way legally you would need an amateur
license, and this is not just a paperwork exercise, you have to pass FCC
exams covering electronics and radio theory (plus laws and regulations) to
get one. For most people, it's not an option.

Very few people would have significnat difficulty passing the technician class
license exam that's needed to operate on 2.4GHz. Indeed, there are many
month-long (meet a couple times a week) classes and even weekend "cram"
classes that have near 100% success rates in getting people their tickets. A
passing score is 80%!

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:09:30 -0700, Joel Kolstad wrote:
"Barry Watzman" wrote:
That may be true but to use it that way legally you would need an amateur
license, and this is not just a paperwork exercise, you have to pass FCC
exams covering electronics and radio theory (plus laws and regulations) to
get one. For most people, it's not an option.

Very few people would have significnat difficulty passing the technician class
license exam that's needed to operate on 2.4GHz. Indeed, there are many
month-long (meet a couple times a week) classes and even weekend "cram"
classes that have near 100% success rates in getting people their tickets. A
passing score is 80%!

But, I suppose that believing, as did an earlier poster:
"Bear in mind that 2.4GHz is also an amateur band where no erp limits exist!!"
is acceptable for these No-Code, No-Klew Licensees?

"Allodoxaphobia" wrote in message
...
But, I suppose that believing, as did an earlier poster:
"Bear in mind that 2.4GHz is also an amateur band where no erp limits
exist!!"
is acceptable for these No-Code, No-Klew Licensees?

That's what you get when at least the ARRL seems to be primarily interested in
keeping the number of amateurs high even as society in general seems to be
less and less willing to work a little for a bit of knowledge.

Significant power is still hard enough to come by at 2.4GHz that most of them
will probably run out of interest or money before doing *too* much damage. :-)
That being said, it's not like you need that much power to go impressive
distances anyway; see: http://www.wifiworldrecord.com/ .

---Joel

Barry Watzman wrote in news:46a7981e$0$30632
:

That may be true but to use it that way legally you would need an
amateur license, and this is not just a paperwork exercise, you have to
pass FCC exams covering electronics and radio theory (plus laws and
regulations) to get one. For most people, it's not an option.


And when you do get that license, you are, by lay, limited on what you can
communicate.

IMO. boosting your home wi-fi unser the auspices of an Amateur Radio
License is a no-no.

"Gary Tait" wrote in message
...
And when you do get that license, you are, by lay, limited on what you can
communicate.

Well, the main one is (paraphrased) that you can't be using the amateur bands
for making money on a regular basis... although on-the-air swap meets,
ordering pizza at Pizza Hut via the Internet, books through Amazon, etc. is
certainly all kosher. Were there other exceptions you were thinking of?

IMO. boosting your home wi-fi unser the auspices of an Amateur Radio
License is a no-no.

As long as you don't use encryption and aren't running your business through
it, in my opinion it's a perfectly reasaonble use. Heck, even QST has
articles on doing so.

Joel Kolstad wrote:
"Gary Tait" wrote in message
...

And when you do get that license, you are, by lay, limited on what you can
communicate.


Well, the main one is (paraphrased) that you can't be using the amateur bands
for making money on a regular basis... although on-the-air swap meets,
ordering pizza at Pizza Hut via the Internet, books through Amazon, etc. is
certainly all kosher. Were there other exceptions you were thinking of?


IMO. boosting your home wi-fi unser the auspices of an Amateur Radio
License is a no-no.


As long as you don't use encryption and aren't running your business through
it, in my opinion it's a perfectly reasaonble use. Heck, even QST has
articles on doing so.


Indeed? Which issue? I recall some articles about HSMM and building a
slotted array with gain, but not wholesale use for extension of your
internet connection.


I think that if you start to stray too far from incidental commercial
use, you could get into trouble, especially if lots folks start doing
it. The classic pizza over the autopatch is the example, and I suppose
the occasional ordering from Amazon fits in the same category. But, if
were to, for instance, check your work email, or watch pay-per-view
content, you might be pushing it. In particular, if you but a PA on
your access point and a directional antenna, so that your neighbor can
use it too, you're likely to be stepping over the line.

It's all a judgement call, but the intent is that amateur radio not be
used where there is a commercial service that can provide the same
functions. This is so the commercial entities can't claim that someone
using amateur frequencies is getting an unfair competitive advantage
(among other reasons)

Hi Jim,

"Jim Lux" wrote in message
...
Indeed? Which issue?

A quick Googling shows July 2005 ("IEEE 802.11 Experiments in Virginia's
Shenandoah Valley"), but there was also one in the last 3 months or so that
was really just an overview of how 802.11 worked (aimed very much at
beginners, actually, with an eye towards amateur usage, e.g., "Making your
SSID your call sign is a good idea...").

It's all a judgement call, but the intent is that amateur radio not be used
where there is a commercial service that can provide the same functions.
This is so the commercial entities can't claim that someone using amateur
frequencies is getting an unfair competitive advantage (among other reasons)

Agreed, although as I've mentioned previously, these days most of what happens
on the amateur frequencies *could* just as readily be done with cell phones or
your DSL/cable modem/POTS Internet connection. I think the commercial
entities are much more interested in getting the *spectrum* that hams have
rather than trying to force the local Elks to quite using a 2m repeater to
coordinate their meetings. :-)

There is a long history of amateur radio being used to avoid expensive
commercial services: People used it for years as a replacement for long
distance telephone calls prior to those rates becoming dirt cheap. It's
almost ironic to what extent this motivates people -- international calls that
were $5/minute in 1970 are now often no more than $0.05/minute, yet there's
still plenty of interest in, e.g., Skype to reduce that to "free!" (after you
pay your fixed monthly Internet bill). Heck, these days I think that
satellite phones cost less per minute than many international calls 35 years
ago!

One area that isn't readily available commercially yet is "reasonably"
high-speed Internet connections (e.g., 256kbps or better) for folks who are
mobile out in the boonies (i.e., somewhere there's no modern cell phone
coverage); that's where I'd really like to see some progress in amateur radio
(on UHF frequencies, I would imagine). WiMax might offer a viable commercial
solution here, but I imagine there are going to be large stretches of the
western and central U.S. where it'll be many decades before it's profitable to
deploy WiMax or high-speed cell phone networks; in such places a hilltop
amateur system could let amateurs with the typical 50W mobile radio "check
their e-mail" for many tens of miles in all directions.

I also think it would be cool to build something like an HF PSK31 gateway back
to the popular Internet instant-messaging services (Yahoo!, MSN!, etc.) -- I
figure the way to approach this would be to hack together the bits of PSK31
code out there with the bits of a multi-protocol messaging program such as
Pidgin (formerly GAIM).

---Joel

Joel Kolstad wrote:
There is a long history of amateur radio being used to avoid expensive
commercial services: People used it for years as a replacement for long
distance telephone calls prior to those rates becoming dirt cheap. It's
almost ironic to what extent this motivates people -- international calls that
were $5/minute in 1970 are now often no more than $0.05/minute, yet there's
still plenty of interest in, e.g., Skype to reduce that to "free!" (after you
pay your fixed monthly Internet bill). Heck, these days I think that
satellite phones cost less per minute than many international calls 35 years
ago!

Here in Israel, it's long since happened. Cell phones have replaced
HT's and phone patches are a thing of the past. Even without VoIP last
fall a long distance company had unlimited calls to the U.S. and
Canada $10 a month. That offer is gone now, but the regular price is
about $.04 a minute except for the "default" carrier which is $.10
a minute, less if you "join".


Quite simply no one here really cares about ham radio anymore.
The Israel Amateur Radio Club has worked hard to keep relegious
Jews and new immegrants out of it, and the "new" generation
does not want to have to take a morse code test.


It's only a few "old guys" left. :-(

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/