10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

Hi All. I will be getting my General Class license in the very near
future I hope. Of course, they got rid of CW after I finally had 5
WPM mastered. :-)

I live in New England and a friend of mine lives about 300 air miles
away. He has a 100 foot tower and it's amazing to see him work 20
meters. He also mentioned that he is finding 10 meters is opening more
and is having luck there also.

Unfortunately, all I have access to at this time is a 25 watt 10
meter rig. For my first HF antenna, I would like to be able to
communicate with my HAM friend as a priority, with any further
contacts a bonus. He recommended a full wavelength dipole set up as
an inverted V and experiment with wire angles. I know the inverted V
is much more omni directional than a flat dipole.

So the antennas I have considered which I hope have the proper take
off angles a
Inverted V
Moxon Beam
10 meter extended double Zepp (low radiation angle?)
10 meter vertical loop (experiment with loop angle and feedpoints)
Some type of sloper (dipole, end-fed, delta loop type?)

I'm hoping someone out there has had some luck with medium range
consistency (300 miles in my case) at 10 meters. I have a fairly
large yard but it is heavily wooded. The ground ranges from rich loom
to solid granite. A 44' EDZ is possible but definitely won't be easy,
although I will certainly make the effort. I also have a 10 meter
yagi sitting in pieces but if you think that may work, I will have to
suspend it from trees in a fixed direction.

Thanks!

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

Been quite a while since I've been on 10M, but I think 300 miles might
be a little tough. Too far for groundwave and I think a little too
close for E skip. Heck though, give it a try!

Denno wrote:
Hi All. I will be getting my General Class license in the very near
future I hope. Of course, they got rid of CW after I finally had 5
WPM mastered. :-)

I live in New England and a friend of mine lives about 300 air miles
away. He has a 100 foot tower and it's amazing to see him work 20
meters. He also mentioned that he is finding 10 meters is opening more
and is having luck there also.

Unfortunately, all I have access to at this time is a 25 watt 10
meter rig. For my first HF antenna, I would like to be able to
communicate with my HAM friend as a priority, with any further
contacts a bonus. He recommended a full wavelength dipole set up as
an inverted V and experiment with wire angles. I know the inverted V
is much more omni directional than a flat dipole.

So the antennas I have considered which I hope have the proper take
off angles a
Inverted V
Moxon Beam
10 meter extended double Zepp (low radiation angle?)
10 meter vertical loop (experiment with loop angle and feedpoints)
Some type of sloper (dipole, end-fed, delta loop type?)

I'm hoping someone out there has had some luck with medium range
consistency (300 miles in my case) at 10 meters. I have a fairly
large yard but it is heavily wooded. The ground ranges from rich loom
to solid granite. A 44' EDZ is possible but definitely won't be easy,
although I will certainly make the effort. I also have a 10 meter
yagi sitting in pieces but if you think that may work, I will have to
suspend it from trees in a fixed direction.

Thanks!


--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

Scott wrote:
Been quite a while since I've been on 10M, but I think 300 miles might
be a little tough. Too far for groundwave and I think a little too
close for E skip. Heck though, give it a try!
...

Yep. Too close for local, too far for skywave. But hey, ya never know.

Solar activity is way down, it isn't like the 70's ...

Regards,
JS

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

"Denno" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi All. I will be getting my General Class license in the very near
future I hope. Of course, they got rid of CW after I finally had 5
WPM mastered. :-)

I live in New England and a friend of mine lives about 300 air miles
away. He has a 100 foot tower and it's amazing to see him work 20
meters. He also mentioned that he is finding 10 meters is opening more
and is having luck there also.

Unfortunately, all I have access to at this time is a 25 watt 10
meter rig. For my first HF antenna, I would like to be able to
communicate with my HAM friend as a priority, with any further
contacts a bonus. He recommended a full wavelength dipole set up as
an inverted V and experiment with wire angles. I know the inverted V
is much more omni directional than a flat dipole.


You will have to trade that 10 meter rig for something that will work 80
meters or 40 meters. While the band may open sometime for that distance,
it is too far away for ground wave and maybe too close for sky wave most of
the time. No antenna that can be put up by most hams can help you reach
that distance 99.9 % of the time on 10 meters.

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

Denno wrote:
I'm hoping someone out there has had some luck with medium range
consistency (300 miles in my case) at 10 meters.

300 miles is close to NVIS propagation and is
very unlikely on 10m at the present time.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

If somehow you can sell that 10 m rig and get any kind of old all band SSB
transceiver, you can work your buddy 99% of the time on 75 meters with a
simple dipole. That's what 75 meters is made for. You can sit and talk for
hours, armchair copy. And when he isn't around you can talk to others, you
can't do that with what you are trying to do on 10 m.

Rick K2XT

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Denno wrote:
I'm hoping someone out there has had some luck with medium range
consistency (300 miles in my case) at 10 meters.

300 miles is close to NVIS propagation and is
very unlikely on 10m at the present time.


IF super intense Es is going on (Usually in the summer, with
maybe couple times in Winter Solstius (xmas-new years), MAYBE -
but even this is a stretch! As stated, better 80-40 Meters, and BTW, IF
you should get THAT short skip on 10 (400 miles, or LESS), then bet 6
Meters is open! , but
then, I digress: Good Luck-- Jim NN7K

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

"Denno" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi All. I will be getting my General Class license in the very near
future I hope. Of course, they got rid of CW after I finally had 5
WPM mastered. :-)

I live in New England and a friend of mine lives about 300 air miles
away. He has a 100 foot tower and it's amazing to see him work 20
meters. He also mentioned that he is finding 10 meters is opening more
and is having luck there also.

Unfortunately, all I have access to at this time is a 25 watt 10
meter rig. For my first HF antenna, I would like to be able to
communicate with my HAM friend as a priority, with any further
contacts a bonus. He recommended a full wavelength dipole set up as
an inverted V and experiment with wire angles. I know the inverted V
is much more omni directional than a flat dipole.

So the antennas I have considered which I hope have the proper take
off angles a
Inverted V
Moxon Beam
10 meter extended double Zepp (low radiation angle?)
10 meter vertical loop (experiment with loop angle and feedpoints)
Some type of sloper (dipole, end-fed, delta loop type?)

I'm hoping someone out there has had some luck with medium range
consistency (300 miles in my case) at 10 meters. I have a fairly
large yard but it is heavily wooded. The ground ranges from rich loom
to solid granite. A 44' EDZ is possible but definitely won't be easy,
although I will certainly make the effort. I also have a 10 meter
yagi sitting in pieces but if you think that may work, I will have to
suspend it from trees in a fixed direction.

Thanks!

Hi Denno

The greatest quality of HAM radio is your being able to experiment with
about anything that pleases you. It is so unlikely that you will ever be
satisfied with audio communication with your buddy 300 miles away on ten
meters, that you might consider using Skype for that ONE contact and set up
anything that seems interesting to you for ten meters. It wont take long
for you to know alot about what antenna is best for you.

Jerry

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...

"Denno" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi All. I will be getting my General Class license in the very near
future I hope. Of course, they got rid of CW after I finally had 5
WPM mastered. :-)

I live in New England and a friend of mine lives about 300 air miles
away. He has a 100 foot tower and it's amazing to see him work 20
meters. He also mentioned that he is finding 10 meters is opening more
and is having luck there also.

Unfortunately, all I have access to at this time is a 25 watt 10
meter rig. For my first HF antenna, I would like to be able to
communicate with my HAM friend as a priority, with any further
contacts a bonus. He recommended a full wavelength dipole set up as
an inverted V and experiment with wire angles. I know the inverted V
is much more omni directional than a flat dipole.


You will have to trade that 10 meter rig for something that will work 80
meters or 40 meters. While the band may open sometime for that
distance, it is too far away for ground wave and maybe too close for sky
wave most of the time. No antenna that can be put up by most hams can
help you reach that distance 99.9 % of the time on 10 meters.



With 100W, your best bet is probably 40 meters. People on 75 tend to run
some power.

Tam/WB2TT

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

Denno wrote in news:1189815507.253313.324210@
19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:

Hi All. I will be getting my General Class license in the very near
future I hope. Of course, they got rid of CW after I finally had 5
WPM mastered. :-)

I live in New England and a friend of mine lives about 300 air miles
away. He has a 100 foot tower and it's amazing to see him work 20
meters. He also mentioned that he is finding 10 meters is opening more
and is having luck there also.

Unfortunately, all I have access to at this time is a 25 watt 10
meter rig. For my first HF antenna, I would like to be able to
communicate with my HAM friend as a priority, with any further
contacts a bonus. He recommended a full wavelength dipole set up as
an inverted V and experiment with wire angles. I know the inverted V
is much more omni directional than a flat dipole.

So the antennas I have considered which I hope have the proper take
off angles a
Inverted V
Moxon Beam
10 meter extended double Zepp (low radiation angle?)
10 meter vertical loop (experiment with loop angle and feedpoints)
Some type of sloper (dipole, end-fed, delta loop type?)

I'm hoping someone out there has had some luck with medium range
consistency (300 miles in my case) at 10 meters. I have a fairly
large yard but it is heavily wooded. The ground ranges from rich loom
to solid granite. A 44' EDZ is possible but definitely won't be easy,
although I will certainly make the effort. I also have a 10 meter
yagi sitting in pieces but if you think that may work, I will have to
suspend it from trees in a fixed direction.

You will not get a consistent path on 10m of 300 miles without some
pretty expensive antenna hardware and high power. Just cannot be done.
You'd actually get off cheaper trying to do it on 2m SSB (which would
probably work OK if you stacked two yagis one over the other and fed them
with a good amp). Your friend would have to reciprocate, though, as
these forward scatter systems are on the edge at best.

Seriously, what you need for that distance is a wire antenna for 75 and
40m. And 160m if you can do it. They don't have to be all THAT high,
though I'd try for about 50 feet if you can. Use 40m during the day, 75m
during the evening and morning and 160m at night. As the sunspot cycle
improves, you'll find that 75 and 40 between them pretty much cover the
distance, day or night.


--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

Dave Oldridge wrote:
You will not get a consistent path on 10m of 300 miles without some
pretty expensive antenna hardware and high power. Just cannot be done.

How about moon bounce? :-)

You'd actually get off cheaper trying to do it on 2m SSB (which would
probably work OK if you stacked two yagis one over the other and fed them
with a good amp).

Which reminds me of something that nobody seems to
have mentioned. If a QSO is the only goal, satellite
communications should work well if not too crowded.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

Yes, you all pretty much confirmed my suspicions. I may try to set up
a dipole low to the ground NVIS style, but I know it's probably a
waste of time. I have a great time experimenting with shortwave
antennas (although my neighbors are going crazy wondering what I'm
doing) and haven't had much luck on 10 meters there, either.

My friend's setup is doing incredible things with 20 meters, but
they're all 1200+ miles away too.

I have a beautiful old Kenwood HF rig that I'm preparing to set up
now. Guess I had better start thinking about lower frequency
antennas.

Thanks for the advice, it is much appreciated!

On Sep 15, 12:38 pm, Cecil Moore wrote:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
You will not get a consistent path on 10m of 300 miles without some
pretty expensive antenna hardware and high power. Just cannot be done.

How about moon bounce? :-)

You'd actually get off cheaper trying to do it on 2m SSB (which would
probably work OK if you stacked two yagis one over the other and fed them
with a good amp).

Which reminds me of something that nobody seems to
have mentioned. If a QSO is the only goal, satellite
communications should work well if not too crowded.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

Depends on the type of satellite. LEOs will give a pass time of about
10 minutes per station and the birds coverage would need to overlap both
stations, so QSO time would most likely be 5 minutes or so. Using the
OSCAR 10 types give more time, but add complexity. Besides, I don't
think you can get by with a monoband (10M) radio...uplink and downlinks
are on separate bands. Packet works using the ISS as a digipeater (2M
though)...still short pass times :(

Scott
N0EDV

Cecil Moore wrote:

Dave Oldridge wrote:

You will not get a consistent path on 10m of 300 miles without some
pretty expensive antenna hardware and high power. Just cannot be done.


How about moon bounce? :-)

You'd actually get off cheaper trying to do it on 2m SSB (which would
probably work OK if you stacked two yagis one over the other and fed
them with a good amp).


Which reminds me of something that nobody seems to
have mentioned. If a QSO is the only goal, satellite
communications should work well if not too crowded.

--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

Cecil Moore wrote in
. net:

Dave Oldridge wrote:
You will not get a consistent path on 10m of 300 miles without some
pretty expensive antenna hardware and high power. Just cannot be
done.

How about moon bounce? :-)

Well, I suppose. People are actually doing that on 10 and 15 when the
moon is near the horizon.

You'd actually get off cheaper trying to do it on 2m SSB (which would
probably work OK if you stacked two yagis one over the other and fed
them with a good amp).

Which reminds me of something that nobody seems to
have mentioned. If a QSO is the only goal, satellite
communications should work well if not too crowded.

With one of the higher birds at apogee, that might actually be a good
solution.

--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

John Smith wrote:
Scott wrote:
Been quite a while since I've been on 10M, but I think 300 miles might
be a little tough. Too far for groundwave and I think a little too
close for E skip. Heck though, give it a try!
...

Yep. Too close for local, too far for skywave. But hey, ya never know.

Solar activity is way down, it isn't like the 70's ...

Regards,
JS

Well, actually, too far for local, too close for skywave--but then, you
already knew that ;-)

JS

10 meter antenna and radiation angles
 

On Sep 15, 12:05 pm, Denno wrote:
Yes, you all pretty much confirmed my suspicions. I may try to set up
a dipole low to the ground NVIS style, but I know it's probably a
waste of time.

I think you would be better off with a good vertical or ground plane.
There is not much point in running the typical "NVIS" antenna on
10m. There will be very few cases where the signal actually goes
straight up and down. Just doesn't happen on 10 much.
A low dipole will be the pits for most of the usual paths you
would work on 10m. It will be semi ok working skywave across
the country, but the good ground plane would likely be even
better. Probably by several db...
The ground/space wave with the low dipole will be half useless,
and much of the activity you will find on 10 will be fairly local at
times. In this case, the GP will smoke the dipole.
I used to hang out on 10 a lot several years ago, and if I had to
choose a single simple antenna, I'd use a good vertical or ground
plane as high as I could get it.
This will give the best overall performance for all the types of
paths you will likely work on 10m.
If you did get some short skip going, which is more likely
to be back scatter, or aurora, etc, the vertical will still do
the job as most will still be at a fairly low overall angles, unlike
the typical NVIS on 80m, etc.. There is very little true NVIS
on 10m. The skip zone is too long, even when it's short for
10..
MK