For full understanding of how Maxwells laws were generated one has to
check if eny proviso's were written in.
Ffor instance I suspect that there was a proviso for equilibrium in
every law thar Maxwell used for his summation ofr laws there was an
exceptance by all the masters that without equilibrium the who univere
would fall apart.
Some where along the line somebody deviated from this proviso and made
the assumption that at every point on a radiator can be seen as a sino
soidal current that causes radiation because the assumption was needed
to conform with Maxwells laws while ignoring the dictae of the masters
that the laws of the universe is bound by
by equilibrium so the assumption was conncocted to "solve" the 1/2
wave problem. Can anybody versed in the art point to one of the many
laws at his time were not based on equilibrium. In other words did any
of the work he used specifically addres things that were NOT in
equilibrium to justify its use for items not in equilibrium to
substantiate the use of Maxwells laws to derive its function. Being a
mechanical engineer I am not well informed
of all the doings of the masters
TIA
Art KB9MZ

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:33:14 -0700, art wrote:

one has to
check if eny proviso's were written in.
Ffor instance I suspect

Hi Arthru,

Which, of course, means you didn't check. A flash of ignorance is
hardly an ignition point to start a thread with - but it does provide
suitable tender for a flame. :-0

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

back again art?? still stuck on 'equilibrium'??? 'equilibrium' is a nice
catch word. and yes, many 'masters' heartily believed that everything had
to be in 'equilibrium' with something or another. but we have come a long
way since then. there can be no energy flow between things in equilibrium,
and we all know there is energy flowing in antenna elements. if there
wasn't they wouldn't radiate. and we can directly measure it with current
and voltage probes. so while maybe the static case of coulomb's law may be
said to represent 'equilibrium', none of the others needs that... in fact
none of the others would exist if everything was in 'equilibrium'. the
current, curl, and d/dt parts of the equations are all a representation of
non-equilibrium conditions that must exist for those equations to be of any
use. so get out of the 19th century and into the 21st and join the rest of
us in the understanding of the dynamic world around us!

"art" wrote in message
ups.com...
For full understanding of how Maxwells laws were generated one has to
check if eny proviso's were written in.
Ffor instance I suspect that there was a proviso for equilibrium in
every law thar Maxwell used for his summation ofr laws there was an
exceptance by all the masters that without equilibrium the who univere
would fall apart.
Some where along the line somebody deviated from this proviso and made
the assumption that at every point on a radiator can be seen as a sino
soidal current that causes radiation because the assumption was needed
to conform with Maxwells laws while ignoring the dictae of the masters
that the laws of the universe is bound by
by equilibrium so the assumption was conncocted to "solve" the 1/2
wave problem. Can anybody versed in the art point to one of the many
laws at his time were not based on equilibrium. In other words did any
of the work he used specifically addres things that were NOT in
equilibrium to justify its use for items not in equilibrium to
substantiate the use of Maxwells laws to derive its function. Being a
mechanical engineer I am not well informed
of all the doings of the masters
TIA
Art KB9MZ

On 23 Sep, 10:54, "Dave" wrote:
back again art?? still stuck on 'equilibrium'??? 'equilibrium' is a nice
catch word. and yes, many 'masters' heartily believed that everything had
to be in 'equilibrium' with something or another. but we have come a long
way since then. there can be no energy flow between things in equilibrium,
and we all know there is energy flowing in antenna elements. if there
wasn't they wouldn't radiate. and we can directly measure it with current
and voltage probes. so while maybe the static case of coulomb's law may be
said to represent 'equilibrium', none of the others needs that... in fact
none of the others would exist if everything was in 'equilibrium'. the
current, curl, and d/dt parts of the equations are all a representation of
non-equilibrium conditions that must exist for those equations to be of any
use. so get out of the 19th century and into the 21st and join the rest of
us in the understanding of the dynamic world around us!

"art" wrote in message

ups.com...



For full understanding of how Maxwells laws were generated one has to
check if eny proviso's were written in.
Ffor instance I suspect that there was a proviso for equilibrium in
every law thar Maxwell used for his summation ofr laws there was an
exceptance by all the masters that without equilibrium the who univere
would fall apart.
Some where along the line somebody deviated from this proviso and made
the assumption that at every point on a radiator can be seen as a sino
soidal current that causes radiation because the assumption was needed
to conform with Maxwells laws while ignoring the dictae of the masters
that the laws of the universe is bound by
by equilibrium so the assumption was conncocted to "solve" the 1/2
wave problem. Can anybody versed in the art point to one of the many
laws at his time were not based on equilibrium. In other words did any
of the work he used specifically addres things that were NOT in
equilibrium to justify its use for items not in equilibrium to
substantiate the use of Maxwells laws to derive its function. Being a
mechanical engineer I am not well informed
of all the doings of the masters
TIA
Art KB9MZ- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well David my checks on books on the subject that revealed that all
Maxwells laws
conform to standard boundary conditions. When I started enlarging the
static law of statics I was cogniscent of the fact that the same
boundary conditions must exist to maintain plausability. This forced
me to make sure that the additions within the boundary must not alter
the boundary aproach. I could not uset 1/2 wave antennas be3cause that
violates the laws laid down by Maxwell in all his laws so I used full
wave radiators to continue, after all it xcannot be a law if you have
to make asumptions. I applied a time varying field to make it dynamic
so that it conforms to Maxwell
laws Thus in effect my aproach should be considerfed law
Now we come back to existing aproaches of present day scientists and
they have chosen to ignore the required conditions and in its place
started to apply assumption which you are not allowed to do with laws
only theories. Scientists and others further violated existing laws
ala Maxwells laws which are based upon equiulibrium in all cases and
used it where it is not applicable.
Now all computor programs are based around Maxwells LAWS so how come
it is used in violation of those same laws?
I followed the boundary laws in my expansion of Gaussian law where the
results conform to Maxwell and as I have described earlier the tank
cuicuit is the result but without having to make assumptions
assumptions because I abided by LAW. At the same time it clearly
prooves that asuumptions made by scientists and programmers are
clearly in error of itself. Since I like to do things from first
principles it was my responserbilty to ask electrical people and those
familiar with the state of the art that the principles I used were
"not out of date" ie now revised. One response came from a ham with a
Doctorate working for MIT. He clearly stated that mathematics support
my approach and showed how they were in conformance with Maxwells
LAWS. Nobody concurred with his finding and none supplied reasons why
except that 'you can't do that'! So until somebody of stature
challenges his confirmation I stand my ground. Now W7el is making a
living from programs that are applying Maxwells LAWS to items within a
boundary that are NOT in equilibrium which is INCORRECT. Others by the
way deny the existance
of boundary Laws ala equilibrium as if it does not mean anything.
Ofcourse programmers say I only copied what the government released
ala if it is printed in a book it must be correct so perhaps there is
a computor programmer around as to why he continous to use erroneos
methods for programming with respect to radiators!
Best regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ....XG

"art" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 23 Sep, 10:54, "Dave" wrote:
back again art?? still stuck on 'equilibrium'??? 'equilibrium' is a
nice
catch word. and yes, many 'masters' heartily believed that everything
had
to be in 'equilibrium' with something or another. but we have come a
long
way since then. there can be no energy flow between things in
equilibrium,
and we all know there is energy flowing in antenna elements. if there
wasn't they wouldn't radiate. and we can directly measure it with
current
and voltage probes. so while maybe the static case of coulomb's law may
be
said to represent 'equilibrium', none of the others needs that... in fact
none of the others would exist if everything was in 'equilibrium'. the
current, curl, and d/dt parts of the equations are all a representation
of
non-equilibrium conditions that must exist for those equations to be of
any
use. so get out of the 19th century and into the 21st and join the rest
of
us in the understanding of the dynamic world around us!

"art" wrote in message

ups.com...



For full understanding of how Maxwells laws were generated one has to
check if eny proviso's were written in.
Ffor instance I suspect that there was a proviso for equilibrium in
every law thar Maxwell used for his summation ofr laws there was an
exceptance by all the masters that without equilibrium the who univere
would fall apart.
Some where along the line somebody deviated from this proviso and made
the assumption that at every point on a radiator can be seen as a sino
soidal current that causes radiation because the assumption was needed
to conform with Maxwells laws while ignoring the dictae of the masters
that the laws of the universe is bound by
by equilibrium so the assumption was conncocted to "solve" the 1/2
wave problem. Can anybody versed in the art point to one of the many
laws at his time were not based on equilibrium. In other words did any
of the work he used specifically addres things that were NOT in
equilibrium to justify its use for items not in equilibrium to
substantiate the use of Maxwells laws to derive its function. Being a
mechanical engineer I am not well informed
of all the doings of the masters
TIA
Art KB9MZ- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well David my checks on books on the subject that revealed that all
Maxwells laws
conform to standard boundary conditions. When I started enlarging the
static law of statics I was cogniscent of the fact that the same
boundary conditions must exist to maintain plausability. This forced
me to make sure that the additions within the boundary must not alter
the boundary aproach. I could not uset 1/2 wave antennas be3cause that
violates the laws laid down by Maxwell in all his laws so I used full
wave radiators to continue, after all it xcannot be a law if you have
to make asumptions. I applied a time varying field to make it dynamic
so that it conforms to Maxwell
laws Thus in effect my aproach should be considerfed law
Now we come back to existing aproaches of present day scientists and
they have chosen to ignore the required conditions and in its place
started to apply assumption which you are not allowed to do with laws
only theories. Scientists and others further violated existing laws
ala Maxwells laws which are based upon equiulibrium in all cases and
used it where it is not applicable.
Now all computor programs are based around Maxwells LAWS so how come
it is used in violation of those same laws?
I followed the boundary laws in my expansion of Gaussian law where the
results conform to Maxwell and as I have described earlier the tank
cuicuit is the result but without having to make assumptions
assumptions because I abided by LAW. At the same time it clearly
prooves that asuumptions made by scientists and programmers are
clearly in error of itself. Since I like to do things from first
principles it was my responserbilty to ask electrical people and those
familiar with the state of the art that the principles I used were
"not out of date" ie now revised. One response came from a ham with a
Doctorate working for MIT. He clearly stated that mathematics support
my approach and showed how they were in conformance with Maxwells
LAWS. Nobody concurred with his finding and none supplied reasons why
except that 'you can't do that'! So until somebody of stature
challenges his confirmation I stand my ground. Now W7el is making a
living from programs that are applying Maxwells LAWS to items within a
boundary that are NOT in equilibrium which is INCORRECT. Others by the
way deny the existance
of boundary Laws ala equilibrium as if it does not mean anything.
Ofcourse programmers say I only copied what the government released
ala if it is printed in a book it must be correct so perhaps there is
a computor programmer around as to why he continous to use erroneos
methods for programming with respect to radiators!
Best regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ....XG


ok... now if you have a LAW that is different than what is put down in the
existing maxwell's 4 equations you must be able to write the equations that
make your law different than his. if you can't do that, its no better than
a bag of hot air. so show your calculations, write a paper, get it
published and show the rest of the world that uses those equations and gets
perfectly valid results why we are all wrong.

Dave wrote:
...
ok... now if you have a LAW that is different than what is put down in the
existing maxwell's 4 equations you must be able to write the equations that
make your law different than his. if you can't do that, its no better than
a bag of hot air. so show your calculations, write a paper, get it
published and show the rest of the world that uses those equations and gets
perfectly valid results why we are all wrong.

Who are you to tell him to shut up? Don't you realize you only manage
to make yourself look the idiot?--Well of course not, that is quite obvious!

You think you will tell the rest of us how to conduct ourselves when you
are finished with him?

Just where in the hell do you come from? And, what the hell makes you
have any right whatsoever to do so?

Go away--PLONK!

JS

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
...
ok... now if you have a LAW that is different than what is put down in
the existing maxwell's 4 equations you must be able to write the
equations that make your law different than his. if you can't do that,
its no better than a bag of hot air. so show your calculations, write a
paper, get it published and show the rest of the world that uses those
equations and gets perfectly valid results why we are all wrong.

Who are you to tell him to shut up? Don't you realize you only manage to
make yourself look the idiot?--Well of course not, that is quite obvious!

You think you will tell the rest of us how to conduct ourselves when you
are finished with him?

Just where in the hell do you come from? And, what the hell makes you
have any right whatsoever to do so?

Go away--PLONK!

JS

go plonk yourself... i am simply challenging someone who has shown himself
to be full of hot air to properly explain his revolutionary law that has
evaded the rest of the world, and who has been handwaviing and telling
everyone that he has this great new law... but can never explain it in terms
that anyone understands... just more handwaving and generalizing. if you
can't take a challenge then you don't belong on usenet. and art sure
doesn't need you to defend him, he does well enough to make an ass of
himself.

On 23 Sep, 14:31, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

ups.com...





On 23 Sep, 10:54, "Dave" wrote:
back again art?? still stuck on 'equilibrium'??? 'equilibrium' is a
nice
catch word. and yes, many 'masters' heartily believed that everything
had
to be in 'equilibrium' with something or another. but we have come a
long
way since then. there can be no energy flow between things in
equilibrium,
and we all know there is energy flowing in antenna elements. if there
wasn't they wouldn't radiate. and we can directly measure it with
current
and voltage probes. so while maybe the static case of coulomb's law may
be
said to represent 'equilibrium', none of the others needs that... in fact
none of the others would exist if everything was in 'equilibrium'. the
current, curl, and d/dt parts of the equations are all a representation
of
non-equilibrium conditions that must exist for those equations to be of
any
use. so get out of the 19th century and into the 21st and join the rest
of
us in the understanding of the dynamic world around us!

"art" wrote in message

roups.com...

For full understanding of how Maxwells laws were generated one has to
check if eny proviso's were written in.
Ffor instance I suspect that there was a proviso for equilibrium in
every law thar Maxwell used for his summation ofr laws there was an
exceptance by all the masters that without equilibrium the who univere
would fall apart.
Some where along the line somebody deviated from this proviso and made
the assumption that at every point on a radiator can be seen as a sino
soidal current that causes radiation because the assumption was needed
to conform with Maxwells laws while ignoring the dictae of the masters
that the laws of the universe is bound by
by equilibrium so the assumption was conncocted to "solve" the 1/2
wave problem. Can anybody versed in the art point to one of the many
laws at his time were not based on equilibrium. In other words did any
of the work he used specifically addres things that were NOT in
equilibrium to justify its use for items not in equilibrium to
substantiate the use of Maxwells laws to derive its function. Being a
mechanical engineer I am not well informed
of all the doings of the masters
TIA
Art KB9MZ- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well David my checks on books on the subject that revealed that all
Maxwells laws
conform to standard boundary conditions. When I started enlarging the
static law of statics I was cogniscent of the fact that the same
boundary conditions must exist to maintain plausability. This forced
me to make sure that the additions within the boundary must not alter
the boundary aproach. I could not uset 1/2 wave antennas be3cause that
violates the laws laid down by Maxwell in all his laws so I used full
wave radiators to continue, after all it xcannot be a law if you have
to make asumptions. I applied a time varying field to make it dynamic
so that it conforms to Maxwell
laws Thus in effect my aproach should be considerfed law
Now we come back to existing aproaches of present day scientists and
they have chosen to ignore the required conditions and in its place
started to apply assumption which you are not allowed to do with laws
only theories. Scientists and others further violated existing laws
ala Maxwells laws which are based upon equiulibrium in all cases and
used it where it is not applicable.
Now all computor programs are based around Maxwells LAWS so how come
it is used in violation of those same laws?
I followed the boundary laws in my expansion of Gaussian law where the
results conform to Maxwell and as I have described earlier the tank
cuicuit is the result but without having to make assumptions
assumptions because I abided by LAW. At the same time it clearly
prooves that asuumptions made by scientists and programmers are
clearly in error of itself. Since I like to do things from first
principles it was my responserbilty to ask electrical people and those
familiar with the state of the art that the principles I used were
"not out of date" ie now revised. One response came from a ham with a
Doctorate working for MIT. He clearly stated that mathematics support
my approach and showed how they were in conformance with Maxwells
LAWS. Nobody concurred with his finding and none supplied reasons why
except that 'you can't do that'! So until somebody of stature
challenges his confirmation I stand my ground. Now W7el is making a
living from programs that are applying Maxwells LAWS to items within a
boundary that are NOT in equilibrium which is INCORRECT. Others by the
way deny the existance
of boundary Laws ala equilibrium as if it does not mean anything.
Ofcourse programmers say I only copied what the government released
ala if it is printed in a book it must be correct so perhaps there is
a computor programmer around as to why he continous to use erroneos
methods for programming with respect to radiators!
Best regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ....XG

ok... now if you have a LAW that is different than what is put down in the
existing maxwell's 4 equations you must be able to write the equations that
make your law different than his. if you can't do that, its no better than
a bag of hot air. so show your calculations, write a paper, get it
published and show the rest of the world that uses those equations and gets
perfectly valid results why we are all wrong.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sooner or later you will have to act your age.
The tank circuit is a electrical circuit that is also the circuit
of a full wave radiator regardless of how the extended mathematics and
my work
portrays. It clearly shows that release of energy by shorting the
energy source
is how an efficient radiating system works i.e two energy sources
continuing a pendulum swing
as it were. Attack that if you wish since the books validate that
without reference to equilibrium or Gauss.
It stands on its own. If you end feed a folded full wave length dipole
you will get an answer that Maxwells laws will verify and was tried
out by a guy named Frank who I do not know using NEC 4 antenna
computing program and found to be correct. Nobody but nobody has
presented anything that point out errors in any of this.
Now I come to the second point. I would have thought that radiation of
a 1/2 wave dipole would concurr with that of
a full wave end fed radiator but it doesn't. Why is that? When I try
to feed it at the end voltage becomes a problem
as there is no energy receptical available which is illustrated by the
socalled end effects where the voltage has nowhere to go but into the
atmosphere directly with it being contained to a specific frequence
given by the radiators
length so certainly it does not connect with the tank circuit of a
full wave.
So now we can also take a look at the electrical circuit of a half
wave end fed radiator where we come up with a series circuit but no
evidence of what starts the radiation and in fact the circuit has none
of the character istics shown by the tank circuit and does not provide
any clues as to what creats radiation, this all experts agree upon.
Nobody but nobody has ever been able to describe radiation.
Now based on the parallel circuit I profer the following. Static
particles are allowed to rest on diagmatic materials
and possibly paramagnetic materials each of which cannot retain a
magnetic field. All other materials are bound with specific electrons
that repulse static particles. From the same gaussian laws which when
expanded the way I stated
is directly related to present dynamic laws such that on a full length
radiator there are particles at rest and I might add decaying.It is
reasonable to assume that the instant release of energy overcomes the
inertia of the static particles and push them awayby fracturing the
arbitary field. Those that do not escape return to the radiator
surface
which is now fully occupied with static particles thus forcing the
particle to burrow under the surface providing skin effect of decay.
The next release of energy does the same thing but fracture or
penetrates the arbitary border at a different place producing
radiation other than that of a planar array or any other array not in
equilibrium.
As for the half wave there is nothing that suggests any similarity to
the tank circuit, no suggestion that energy release is from two energy
sources but evidence that there is not one to contain the voltage
swings/.
Now the tank circuit shows that beyond the frequency band edges there
is a strong dip in filter pass abilities so the radiation is retained
within a certain spectrum. In a series circuit the spectrum does not
have a pass filter
and infact the end effect is really the escape of energy to the
atmosphere without a containment within the desired frequency spectrum
so clearly it is not operating efficiently which also suggests that
the driven energy is not fully matched to the impedance of the antenna
itself which again suggests that because it not resonate in circuit
terms the feed line is invaded to correct the situation.
So be my guest. End feed a half wave radiator and a endfed full wave
radiator and then compare.
The new shortened antenna from the university of R.I. is a good place
to start where those who are familiar with the state of the art state
that the feed line has been forced to become a part of the antenna so
one has to look at SYSTEM as a whole. Now using the same antenna the
wire does not stop at the top but comes down to the starting point
by winding in a contra wound direction such the radiator is a full
wave length and in equilibrium and by strentch the height of the
radiator to remove any stray capacitance that has been added (since
the LC ratio of an antenna must be held to) you will find that the new
radiator is balanced (in equilibrium), has no end effects and does not
extend the circuit to the feed lines and has the same impedance and
volume of the original short antenna but with more gain.
With all the above I rest my case especially since nobody has refuted
any of it in scientific terms which includes mathematics.
Isn't life good when things come to a successful end such that the
time has come around again as it always does to throw the old books
away of past generations and go with books of the new generation?
Best regards to all
Art Unwin..KB9MZ..... ex UK

snip
Isn't life good when things come to a successful end such that the
time has come around again as it always does to throw the old books
away of past generations and go with books of the new generation?
Best regards to all
Art Unwin..KB9MZ..... ex UK


Art
Science is about building on the foundations of the past and not about
throwing away books. The old methods of calculation still work fine, its
just that in the light of new knowledge we can refine the methods to produce
more accurate results. All of our achievements to date have been built on
the foundations laid down by past generations and it is foolish and
dangerous to dismiss or ignore any part of history. Never, ever throw away a
book - well maybe the ones by Catherine Cookson et al :-)
Regards
Mike G0ULI

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 17:21:29 -0700, art wrote:

Isn't life good when things come to a successful end such that the
time has come around again as it always does to throw the old books
away of past generations and go with books of the new generation?

Are you quoting Gobbels now?

This "golden city on the hill" fluff hardly describes any antenna of
remarkable ability. The alternative is so much misty eyed and fond
desires (superstition) like a pre-teen girl's scribbling into her
diary.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC