Equi is for equal, libra is the sign of Zodiac which is a pair of
scales

It means that a repetitive action must come back to its source.
AC power has a cycle as in frequency, thus its circuit is one
wavelength.

A quad antenna represents a one wave circuit where total length is
proportionat
to time .ie a picture of events during one cycle.
Now place along side of the quad a radiator of your choice where
the length of the short radiator is superimposed upon the quad.
For ease in foillowing the electrical circuit make your shorty
antenna
equal to one side of the quad

So the race begins. Both travel up for a time at the SAME velocity.
At the corner of the quad power travels onward until it gets to its
originating point to complete a cycle
The short antenna appears to have nowhere to go so what does it do?
To duplicate the quad action it must have a circuit of some sort where
the power can still travel forward during the time the power in the
quad
is still travelling to the originating point.

Complete the circuit of the short antenna showing the series of events
that occur upto the point that the events on the quad come to its
point of beginning.

Note The impedance of space is 377 ohms, the impedance of ground can
be your choice.
Art

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
Equi is for equal, libra is the sign of Zodiac which is a pair of
scales

It means that a repetitive action must come back to its source.
AC power has a cycle as in frequency, thus its circuit is one
wavelength.

A quad antenna represents a one wave circuit where total length is
proportionat
to time .ie a picture of events during one cycle.
Now place along side of the quad a radiator of your choice where
the length of the short radiator is superimposed upon the quad.
For ease in foillowing the electrical circuit make your shorty
antenna
equal to one side of the quad

So the race begins. Both travel up for a time at the SAME velocity.
At the corner of the quad power travels onward until it gets to its
originating point to complete a cycle
The short antenna appears to have nowhere to go so what does it do?
To duplicate the quad action it must have a circuit of some sort where
the power can still travel forward during the time the power in the
quad
is still travelling to the originating point.

Complete the circuit of the short antenna showing the series of events
that occur upto the point that the events on the quad come to its
point of beginning.

Note The impedance of space is 377 ohms, the impedance of ground can
be your choice.
Art


but a wave comes back to it starting point after 1/2 cycle then reverses.
so why does your original assertion of a 1/2 wave 'gaussian' antenna still
hold? now, for a 1/4 wave monopole, where does the other 3/4's of a wave
come from?? and what happens to the power that is radiated? how does that
ever return to it's source to be in equilibrium? would a circuit that was
in equilibrium not be capable of radiating since everything has to return to
the source??

On 14 Oct, 08:07, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

oups.com...





Equi is for equal, libra is the sign of Zodiac which is a pair of
scales

It means that a repetitive action must come back to its source.
AC power has a cycle as in frequency, thus its circuit is one
wavelength.

A quad antenna represents a one wave circuit where total length is
proportionat
to time .ie a picture of events during one cycle.
Now place along side of the quad a radiator of your choice where
the length of the short radiator is superimposed upon the quad.
For ease in foillowing the electrical circuit make your shorty
antenna
equal to one side of the quad

So the race begins. Both travel up for a time at the SAME velocity.
At the corner of the quad power travels onward until it gets to its
originating point to complete a cycle
The short antenna appears to have nowhere to go so what does it do?
To duplicate the quad action it must have a circuit of some sort where
the power can still travel forward during the time the power in the
quad
is still travelling to the originating point.

Complete the circuit of the short antenna showing the series of events
that occur upto the point that the events on the quad come to its
point of beginning.

Note The impedance of space is 377 ohms, the impedance of ground can
be your choice.
Art

but a wave comes back to it starting point after 1/2 cycle then reverses.
so why does your original assertion of a 1/2 wave 'gaussian' antenna still
hold? now, for a 1/4 wave monopole, where does the other 3/4's of a wave
come from?? and what happens to the power that is radiated? how does that
ever return to it's source to be in equilibrium? would a circuit that was
in equilibrium not be capable of radiating since everything has to return to
the source??- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh dear I forgot to mention, there is another path for current flow
and that is at the center of the radiator. The impedance of this path
is lower than the impedance to space so naturally that is the path the
power will take.
Now on this inner path there are no electrons to dislodge as the
outer
electrons have decayed before they reached the center path so the
current
during this time is just travelling without supplying radiation until
it reaches the bottom of the radiator.
But it's counter part the quad is radiating during this time
( How about that experts!) And by the way it was mentioned somewhere
that the ground resistance was 2 ohms so one should now be able to
determine the IMPEDANCE of ground at the antenna base point
Now you take it from there....experts!
Art KB9MZ...XG

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 14 Oct, 08:07, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

oups.com...





Equi is for equal, libra is the sign of Zodiac which is a pair of
scales

It means that a repetitive action must come back to its source.
AC power has a cycle as in frequency, thus its circuit is one
wavelength.

A quad antenna represents a one wave circuit where total length is
proportionat
to time .ie a picture of events during one cycle.
Now place along side of the quad a radiator of your choice where
the length of the short radiator is superimposed upon the quad.
For ease in foillowing the electrical circuit make your shorty
antenna
equal to one side of the quad

So the race begins. Both travel up for a time at the SAME velocity.
At the corner of the quad power travels onward until it gets to its
originating point to complete a cycle
The short antenna appears to have nowhere to go so what does it do?
To duplicate the quad action it must have a circuit of some sort where
the power can still travel forward during the time the power in the
quad
is still travelling to the originating point.

Complete the circuit of the short antenna showing the series of events
that occur upto the point that the events on the quad come to its
point of beginning.

Note The impedance of space is 377 ohms, the impedance of ground can
be your choice.
Art

but a wave comes back to it starting point after 1/2 cycle then reverses.
so why does your original assertion of a 1/2 wave 'gaussian' antenna
still
hold? now, for a 1/4 wave monopole, where does the other 3/4's of a wave
come from?? and what happens to the power that is radiated? how does
that
ever return to it's source to be in equilibrium? would a circuit that
was
in equilibrium not be capable of radiating since everything has to return
to
the source??- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh dear I forgot to mention, there is another path for current flow
and that is at the center of the radiator. The impedance of this path
is lower than the impedance to space so naturally that is the path the
power will take.
Now on this inner path there are no electrons to dislodge as the
outer
electrons have decayed before they reached the center path so the
current
during this time is just travelling without supplying radiation until
it reaches the bottom of the radiator.
But it's counter part the quad is radiating during this time
( How about that experts!) And by the way it was mentioned somewhere
that the ground resistance was 2 ohms so one should now be able to
determine the IMPEDANCE of ground at the antenna base point
Now you take it from there....experts!
Art KB9MZ...XG


ah, the no electron anti-skin effect return path up the middle of the
element. what about my elements that are hollow? where does the current
flow then? or where does it flow in wire cage elements?? what about coiled
elements like that 'new' short monopole, does it flow around and around
inside the wire, or take a shortcut through something else? How does this
fit into current wave reflection theory that easily explains the currents on
elements complete with easily measured and well predicted values that don't
require a return current up the middle?? too many questions left hanging
art, you gotta work on that theory a bit more to fill in all the holes. oh,
maybe thats it, try incorperating holes into your next version, maybe thats
how the current flows back along the inside, it is the holes left over when
the electrons 'decay'!

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:20:21 GMT, "Dave" wrote:

what about coiled
elements like that 'new' short monopole, does it flow around and around
inside the wire

Dave,

With your accurate shorthand of validation, you are treading very
close to Arthur's loose Gaussian shoelaces and may soon find yourself
elevated by him to his Academy of Supporters of Seance when he trips.

Won't you be embarrassed when he sites you as his authority for your
cogent analaysis!

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On 14 Oct, 09:20, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

oups.com...





On 14 Oct, 08:07, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

groups.com...

Equi is for equal, libra is the sign of Zodiac which is a pair of
scales

It means that a repetitive action must come back to its source.
AC power has a cycle as in frequency, thus its circuit is one
wavelength.

A quad antenna represents a one wave circuit where total length is
proportionat
to time .ie a picture of events during one cycle.
Now place along side of the quad a radiator of your choice where
the length of the short radiator is superimposed upon the quad.
For ease in foillowing the electrical circuit make your shorty
antenna
equal to one side of the quad

So the race begins. Both travel up for a time at the SAME velocity.
At the corner of the quad power travels onward until it gets to its
originating point to complete a cycle
The short antenna appears to have nowhere to go so what does it do?
To duplicate the quad action it must have a circuit of some sort where
the power can still travel forward during the time the power in the
quad
is still travelling to the originating point.

Complete the circuit of the short antenna showing the series of events
that occur upto the point that the events on the quad come to its
point of beginning.

Note The impedance of space is 377 ohms, the impedance of ground can
be your choice.
Art

but a wave comes back to it starting point after 1/2 cycle then reverses.
so why does your original assertion of a 1/2 wave 'gaussian' antenna
still
hold? now, for a 1/4 wave monopole, where does the other 3/4's of a wave
come from?? and what happens to the power that is radiated? how does
that
ever return to it's source to be in equilibrium? would a circuit that
was
in equilibrium not be capable of radiating since everything has to return
to
the source??- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh dear I forgot to mention, there is another path for current flow
and that is at the center of the radiator. The impedance of this path
is lower than the impedance to space so naturally that is the path the
power will take.
Now on this inner path there are no electrons to dislodge as the
outer
electrons have decayed before they reached the center path so the
current
during this time is just travelling without supplying radiation until
it reaches the bottom of the radiator.
But it's counter part the quad is radiating during this time
( How about that experts!) And by the way it was mentioned somewhere
that the ground resistance was 2 ohms so one should now be able to
determine the IMPEDANCE of ground at the antenna base point
Now you take it from there....experts!
Art KB9MZ...XG

ah, the no electron anti-skin effect return path up the middle of the
element. what about my elements that are hollow? where does the current
flow then? or where does it flow in wire cage elements?? what about coiled
elements like that 'new' short monopole, does it flow around and around
inside the wire, or take a shortcut through something else? How does this
fit into current wave reflection theory that easily explains the currents on
elements complete with easily measured and well predicted values that don't
require a return current up the middle?? too many questions left hanging
art, you gotta work on that theory a bit more to fill in all the holes. oh,
maybe thats it, try incorperating holes into your next version, maybe thats
how the current flows back along the inside, it is the holes left over when
the electrons 'decay'!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well now David thge charge has arrived at the bottom of the radiator.
It is now in a quandry
it looks over at the quaud and ssees that the charge over there is
half way around!
So the charge on the small radiator finds that it can only go up
aqgain forming a loop of current.
Fortunately it is now back on track radiating just like the quad.
Ofcourse when he gets to the top
it again has only one place to go and that is down the center again
where it can't radiatiate
like the quad is doing.When the charge gets to the bottom it wsees a
path of 2 0hms (the resistor)
so it passes thru the resistor where the charge finally gets back to
the starting point at exactly the same time that the charge of the
quad got back home.
So the sequence of events is that the short antenna only radiated half
of the time neglecting the travel thru the resister of course. So the
quad radiated twice the time of the smaller radiator which amounts to
a 3 db gain.
Well some might say we knew that a quad radiated more because it is
the same as two dipoles( half wave) on top of
each other so yes for the same power expended in the same amount of
time a full wave radiator radiates twice the power that a quarter wave
does.
Art you are a genius put QED at the end of this post and also get hold
of Yuru so that he now can get to sleep at night.
Art Unwin KB9MZ.......XG (uk)

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:32:53 -0700, art wrote:

So the
quad radiated twice the time of the smaller radiator which amounts to
a 3 db gain.

Hmmm, this puts Robert Vincent's antenna into a cocked hat through a
chain of your denials. Well, society needs Libras who can believe six
impossible things before breakfast. Imagine, we get to see them
posted here before brunch too!

Art wrote:
....for the same power expended in the same amount of
time a full wave radiator radiates twice the power that a
quarter wave does.
_________

So then where does the missing power applied to the 1/4-wave radiator go, if
only half of its input power is converted to EM radiation?

RF

On 14 Oct, 08:07, "Dave" wrote:
"art" wrote in message

oups.com...





Equi is for equal, libra is the sign of Zodiac which is a pair of
scales

It means that a repetitive action must come back to its source.
AC power has a cycle as in frequency, thus its circuit is one
wavelength.

A quad antenna represents a one wave circuit where total length is
proportionat
to time .ie a picture of events during one cycle.
Now place along side of the quad a radiator of your choice where
the length of the short radiator is superimposed upon the quad.
For ease in foillowing the electrical circuit make your shorty
antenna
equal to one side of the quad

So the race begins. Both travel up for a time at the SAME velocity.
At the corner of the quad power travels onward until it gets to its
originating point to complete a cycle
The short antenna appears to have nowhere to go so what does it do?
To duplicate the quad action it must have a circuit of some sort where
the power can still travel forward during the time the power in the
quad
is still travelling to the originating point.

Complete the circuit of the short antenna showing the series of events
that occur upto the point that the events on the quad come to its
point of beginning.

Note The impedance of space is 377 ohms, the impedance of ground can
be your choice.
Art

but a wave comes back to it starting point after 1/2 cycle then reverses.
so why does your original assertion of a 1/2 wave 'gaussian' antenna still
hold? now, for a 1/4 wave monopole, where does the other 3/4's of a wave
come from?? and what happens to the power that is radiated? how does that
ever return to it's source to be in equilibrium? would a circuit that was
in equilibrium not be capable of radiating response

David
you have a broken brain, you have to
consult all parts of your brain as with
a committee. Thus your questions
are those that come from a committee
which never solves anything
By the way the radiator is just a small part of our solar system.
The radiation particles can only come to rest on a diamagnet material
so accuse your listener of stealing your radiation energy at least
those particles that do arrive while others decay
Art

On 14 Oct, 10:54, art wrote:
On 14 Oct, 08:07, "Dave" wrote:





"art" wrote in message

roups.com...

Equi is for equal, libra is the sign of Zodiac which is a pair of
scales

It means that a repetitive action must come back to its source.
AC power has a cycle as in frequency, thus its circuit is one
wavelength.

A quad antenna represents a one wave circuit where total length is
proportionat
to time .ie a picture of events during one cycle.
Now place along side of the quad a radiator of your choice where
the length of the short radiator is superimposed upon the quad.
For ease in foillowing the electrical circuit make your shorty
antenna
equal to one side of the quad

So the race begins. Both travel up for a time at the SAME velocity.
At the corner of the quad power travels onward until it gets to its
originating point to complete a cycle
The short antenna appears to have nowhere to go so what does it do?
To duplicate the quad action it must have a circuit of some sort where
the power can still travel forward during the time the power in the
quad
is still travelling to the originating point.

Complete the circuit of the short antenna showing the series of events
that occur upto the point that the events on the quad come to its
point of beginning.

Note The impedance of space is 377 ohms, the impedance of ground can
be your choice.
Art

but a wave comes back to it starting point after 1/2 cycle then reverses.
so why does your original assertion of a 1/2 wave 'gaussian' antenna still
hold? now, for a 1/4 wave monopole, where does the other 3/4's of a wave
come from?? and what happens to the power that is radiated? how does that
ever return to it's source to be in equilibrium? would a circuit that was
in equilibrium not be capable of radiating response

David
you have a broken brain, you have to
consult all parts of your brain as with
a committee. Thus your questions
are those that come from a committee
which never solves anything
By the way the radiator is just a small part of our solar system.
The radiation particles can only come to rest on a diamagnet material
so accuse your listener of stealing your radiation energy at least
those particles that do arrive while others decay
Art- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Now with respect to the current loop formed on the short antenna.
This loop defies the existing conception that a short radiator
is a series circuit but instead it is a parallel circuit ala tank
circuit mode
Where the energy sinks explode such that they put electrons in a orbit
mode as they travel because of their tenacity with respect to their
initial
resistance to motion(inertia)as they lay dormant on the outside of a
diagmatic material.
Diagmatic material is a material that will allow an electron to rest
on it's surface
without being combined into the basic material that consists of an
atom and a lot
of other stuff that is in orbit and in equilibrium of itself.
Note that the electron that is now in orbit and is not polar, thus it
is not
affected by gravity on its travels on it's way to find a suitable
resting spot
(diagmatic surface)which can also be outside the earths sphere of
presence and
come to rest on another planets surface in the same way that moon
dust occurs.
NASA has had some success of blowing the moon dust off of material by
mimicing
a tank circuit using just one energy sink release where they were
able to remove
half of the moon dust or overcome it's inertia. Apparently they do
not want
this dust transported to the space vehicle. Note that while in
rotation the electron
posseses both weight and energy where the latter does decay over time
though its
weight stays dormant.Note that a diagmatic material has lots of
"spare" electrons
that imediately take the place of removed electrons and where it
prevents the
resetlement of electrons that do not escape the arbitary field around
the host
material forcing the returning electrons to reside under existing
surface
electrons to form a "skin depth" where they eventually decay.
Enuff said.
Gauss was on the right track when he decided to work at the
observatory.
Pity he didn't delay things and apply a time varying field to
accompany
his law on statics. But no worries a hundred years later along came
Art.
Art Unwin KB9MZ....XG (uk)