On 15 Nov, 18:25, "Mike Kaliski" wrote:
"art" wrote in message news:3bd68052-1537-4b55-a745-

snip





Oh my, you sound so upset.
Your theory used in Eznec was designed
around known "reality" because you found the need to add the proviso
that there was a sino soidal current at all points on the radiator.
Number one, it is not legitamate to add a proviso or a special
condition
to a known law.( Electrical or Mechanical)
Number two It becomes a worse problem when the proviso added is in
error.
Number three, You should not retain a proviso if it proves incorrect .
The fact that present theory has passed the test of time means
nothing.
The threat of retaliation trumps science when humans are concerned.
Gallilao never saw the day that the earth was proven round which
stood the test for a very very long time.
But you could explain to the world how a sino soidal current passes
thru
a distributed capacitance and still retain its properties as it
encounters every segment. This is per the proviso you have placed
with
existing Maxwell's laws with respect to your computor program.
But no you can't! Until then I don't think you are equipped to say
that written theory can be taken as fact.Especially when known laws
are twisted so you can gyrate your program to known reality.
The old saying still stands, Garbage in will produce garbage out
unless the outputs are subject to reprocessing !

Art Unwin...KB9MZ

snip

Art,

I'm sure Roy is quite capable of defending himself against your accusations,
but I think you are being a trifle unfair. EZNEC is a simulation designed to
predict the performance of an antenna design. Being a simulation, certain
assumptions and approximations have to be made in order for it to work. The
fact is that in most situations it does provide an accurate prediction of
antenna performance. There are some special circumstances where it won't.

Integral calculus has been described as one of the greatest advances in
mathematical science, but that is still only an approximation method and
nobody complains about that.

Let's all behave and not argue okay?

Best wishes
Mike G0ULI- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But I am behaving. I am sure that both Roy and others who deal with
NEC4
will admit that they have played with the truth with respect to
antenna programs.
I would venture to say that computor programs are good at what they do
but
it is for all the wrong reasons. Maxwell's laws are just that..Laws.
It is mathematically fraudulent to add anything to those laws under
the banner of Maxwell.
When Roy left the ARRL circle he challenged antena companies to verify
their claims
with respect to gain. By the same token I am challenging to prove the
veracity
of the additional statement that a sino soidal current is present at
every segment point.
Not is it only mathematically illegal to modify a law the addition
also defies all electrical laws.
A radiator has distributed capacitance and I am not aware that a
capacitor will
allow the passage of a time varying current, this is what the
programing states.
He ofcourse can justify why he did this to the satisfaction of all but
he cannot justify
the insertion of such.
Now my antenna operates quite nicely following another aproachyet Roy
vehamently
derides this new aproach when he himself cannot verify his own
actions.
Fairness can be seen in different ways. He can be belligerent in
analysing my aproach
yet at the same time defend an action that he cannot prove to be true.
A person always has the right to defend himself especially against
those
who are mentally challenged. When he provides how distributed
capacitance does not affect
the time varient that Maxwell states is a titular point of his laws I
will readily
retract that remark. Until that time I will defend the veracity of my
aproach which
succesfully produces antennas and arrays in a smaller volume that
present theory
predicts as impossible. As an adder, I am discussing antennas and not
"systems" as Roy
would imply.
Nothing personal, Like Reagan I like verification since trust
does not prove to be enough and I will always defend if I am attacked.
Best regards
Cheers with a Black and Tan
Art Unwin.....KB9MZ...xg

Art wrote:
"By the same token I am challenging to prove the veracity of the
statement that a sino soidal current is present at every segment point."

An antenna is generally a linear passive device meaning that a
sinusoidal wave entering an antenna produces sinusoidal fields which
induce sinusoidal voltages and currents in the distant receiving
antenna.

Sinusoidal voltages appear at every point on such an antenna and
sinusoidal currents pass over the surface of every point of the antenna.
Insulators of course interrupt conduction currents and allow the rise of
voltage gradients.

Induced currents are produced by the electric field of the wave in the
insulation of free space by the displacement (capacitive action) current
of an antenna. Maxwell speculated that displacement generated a magnetic
field same as conduction did, and that was the secret of radiation. He
was proved correct. A magnetic field generated an electric field and an
electric field generated a magnetic field so that the two fields locked
and traveling together go on ond on forever.

Most antennas have two waves traveling in opposite directions, an
incident wave and a reflected wave. Both pass through every point on the
antenna conductor.

A directional coupler can access the wave traveling in one direction
while ignoring the wave traveling in the opposite direction.

Large variations in voltage appearing on the antenna make the familiar
standing wave pattern but this is not a true picture of the individual
waves making up the combined wave. The effective values of the incident
and reflected waves decline steadily but gradually along the antenna as
they travel in opposite directions.

A sinusoidal current is present at every segment point and only slowly
changes from point to point. Two sine waves of the same frequency always
combine at a point to create another sine wave of the same frequency.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Richard Harrison wrote:

A magnetic field generated an electric field and an
electric field generated a magnetic field so that the two fields locked
and traveling together go on ond on forever.
...
Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI


From the above, are the two in a constant state of interaction? The
magnetic reversing to electric--the electric reversing to magnetic?

Or, is their relationship static to one another?

Regards,
JS

John Smith wrote:
"From the above, are the two in a constant state of interaction?"

On page 1 of Terman`s "Electronic and Radio Engineering":
"These waves, which are commonly called radio waves, travel with the
velocity of light and consist of magnetic and electric fields that are
at right angles to each other and are at right angles to the direction
of travel. If these electric and magnetic fields could actually be seen,
the wave would have the appearance indicated in Fig. 1-1."

Maxwell`s first field equation says that a changing magnetic field will
produce an electric field. The second equation says that a changing
electric field will produce a magnetic field.

The alternating magnetic field creates an alternating electric field in
the space surrounding it. Due to the alternation of the electric field
an alternating displacement current will exist in space, which will give
rise to another alternating magnetic field in the space surrounding the
displacement current, etc., etc., etc..

Maxwell`s proof is courtesy B. Whitfield Griffirh, Jr.`s
"Radio-Electronic Transmission Fundamentals", now in reprint by Scitech
Publidhing, Inc..

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Richard Harrison wrote:

...
The alternating magnetic field creates an alternating electric field in
the space surrounding it. Due to the alternation of the electric field
an alternating displacement current will exist in space, which will give
rise to another alternating magnetic field in the space surrounding the
displacement current, etc., etc., etc..

Maxwell`s proof is courtesy B. Whitfield Griffirh, Jr.`s
"Radio-Electronic Transmission Fundamentals", now in reprint by Scitech
Publidhing, Inc..

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI


Richard;

Thanks for taking the time to post that data.

Of course, in my "addled way of thinking", I still see the probability
of a media in which these actions are taking place (electric to magnetic
and magnetic to electric )--such as when you swing a wire (media)
through a magnetic field.

But, really, it is all still a question ... anyway, pondering keeps me
outta the bars. :-)

Regards,
JS

Richard Harrison wrote:
Maxwell`s first field equation says that a changing magnetic field will
produce an electric field. The second equation says that a changing
electric field will produce a magnetic field.

Does this cause and effect chain of events result in a
phase lag between the electric and magnetic fields?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On 16 Nov, 10:38, Cecil Moore wrote:
Richard Harrison wrote:
Maxwell`s first field equation says that a changing magnetic field will
produce an electric field. The second equation says that a changing
electric field will produce a magnetic field.

Does this cause and effect chain of events result in a
phase lag between the electric and magnetic fields?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

I would like more than that!
I would like to know what Terman had to say about radiation
which is a cause of most discussion the summation of which
is not accepted by the IEEE. I don't think he has given any
credit to Maxwell, Faraday, Heaviside or any of the pioneers
in any of his books so it would be interesting to know why
his wrestling with the mechanics of radiation was to no availe!.
And Richard, when you have finished reading from Terman
to get us to sleep, would you consider for your next book
to read to us, like Lady Chatterlies Lover by D.H. Lawrence?
That book may well prevent you going to sleep as well while
reading on the net Most of us have read all the volumes by
Terman so a different reading book may well be of more interest.
Art

art wrote:

...
And Richard, when you have finished reading from Terman
to get us to sleep, would you consider for your next book
to read to us, like Lady Chatterlies Lover by D.H. Lawrence?
That book may well prevent you going to sleep as well while
reading on the net Most of us have read all the volumes by
Terman so a different reading book may well be of more interest.
Art

Art;

This text wastes time/space/patience.

You fault others for such petty "stick poking" as the above. Are you
sure you wouldn't rather keep this to a minimum?

Regards,
JS

Cecil, W5DXP wrote:
"Does this cause and effect chain of events result in aphase lag between
electric and magnetic fields?"

Never saw a phase lag suggested. As radiation impedance is a resistance
even in free space, I expect rise and fall in electric and magnetic
fields is simultaneous even as they speed away at the velocity of light.
Which came first, the electric or the magnetic?

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Richard Harrison wrote:
Never saw a phase lag suggested. As radiation impedance is a resistance
even in free space, I expect rise and fall in electric and magnetic
fields is simultaneous even as they speed away at the velocity of light.
Which came first, the electric or the magnetic?

Does "simultaneous" imply faster than light? :-)
(Photons don't have the phase lag problem).
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com