Loading Coils; was : Vincent antenna
 

Gene, W4SZ wrote:
"What went wrong?"

Sorry, I can`t say because I haven`t followed this thread closely.

Surely the signal follows the path of the turns on a coil. Movement of
electrons is slothful but they are urged by the fields sweeping across
them.

Terman has but one mistake in his 1955 opus and it is only a
typographical error which is obvious, kilocycles instead of megacycles
or something of the sort and doesn`t affect understanding the subject.

Terman says on the "Mechanism of Operation of the Traveling-Wave Tube"
at the bottom of page 678:
"The applied signal propagates around the helix and produces an electric
field at the center of the helix that is directed along the helix axis.

That`s been read and re-read over 50 years and even repeated in the
"Lenkurt Demodulator". There is no chance it is wrong.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Loading Coils; was : Vincent antenna
 

"AI4QJ" wrote in
:


"Owen Duffy" wrote in message
...
....
At the end of the day, it appears to me you are working up the
relationship between the phase of the current through the coil with
voltage across the coil, and you seem to regard the phase of the
current to be uniform at all points in the coil.

I say that the phase relation MUST be the same everywhere on the coil.

That does not seem to me to support Cecil's proposition at all, I
understand Cecil to argue that there is a substantial phase change in the
coil current along the coil.

Owen

Loading Coils; was : Vincent antenna
 

Cecil Moore wrote:
Tom Donaly wrote:
Slap it on your truck, and tell us at what frequencies it resonates.
Can you get it to resonate at odd multiples of its fundamental frequency?

To be entirely technically correct, it should be pointed
out that we are discussing the first resonance as is
usually used in loaded mobile antennas. Starting from
a low frequency, tune the analyzer until the first
resonance is reached. That is when it is electrically
close to 90 degrees in length.

In length? You still don't get it.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Loading Coils; was : Vincent antenna
 

Richard Harrison wrote:

...
Terman says on the "Mechanism of Operation of the Traveling-Wave Tube"
at the bottom of page 678:
"The applied signal propagates around the helix and produces an electric
field at the center of the helix that is directed along the helix axis.
...
Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI


And, obeys basic rules, such as:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_1/6.html

So, a summary of your point? Afraid I am a bit dense here today ...

Regards,
JS

Loading Coils; was : Vincent antenna
 

Tom Donaly wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
Tom Donaly wrote:
Slap it on your truck, and tell us at what frequencies it resonates.
Can you get it to resonate at odd multiples of its fundamental
frequency?

To be entirely technically correct, it should be pointed
out that we are discussing the first resonance as is
usually used in loaded mobile antennas. Starting from
a low frequency, tune the analyzer until the first
resonance is reached. That is when it is electrically
close to 90 degrees in length.

In length? You still don't get it.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Geesh ...

Perhaps my understandings are flawed.

It is my understanding that a resonate antenna will always be of an
"electrically resonate" "length." However, conductor diameter,
covering, stray capacitance (such as in coil turns), "end effects",
dielectrics-involved, etc. may vary this length when physically
appraised ...

Regards,
JS

Loading Coils; was : Vincent antenna
 

"Richard Harrison" wrote in message
...
Richard Clark wrote:
"This week in class I learned from Ambassador Thomas Graham that
Hitler`s second in command came to England and asked Neville Chamberlain
to reject Hitler`s conditions for moving into Czechoslovakia.

That`s shocking! The Munich surrender followed, if my memory is correct,
and almost the whole world world knew that it would not result in peace
in our times! To speculate that the German high cpmmand was ready to
dump Hitler if only England were ready to show some spine! Didn`t
Chamberlain have others in the British Government to consult with?
History repeats. Surely Bush should have looked farther for consultation
before invading Iraq with so little support.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Usually covered up or glossed over, but Hitler and the Nazis had a lot of
supporters in the British government and ruling heirarchy at the time. Don't
forget the British royal family is of German origin. In the absence of the
treaty with Poland, which rather forced Britain into war against Germany,
Britain and Germany might possibly have combined forces and ruled over all
of Europe 60 years earlier than they do now. :-)

Mike G0ULI

Loading Coils; was : Vincent antenna
 

On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:59:43 -0600, (Richard
Harrison) wrote:

Terman says on the "Mechanism of Operation of the Traveling-Wave Tube"
at the bottom of page 678:
"The applied signal propagates around the helix and produces an electric
field at the center of the helix that is directed along the helix axis.

Hi Richard,

Do you want to comment on the sense of how a TWT helix in relation to
its wavelength of operation must impose a considerable operational
difference compared to a 2 inch diameter, 10 inch long coil at 80
Meters wavelength?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Loading Coils; was : Vincent antenna
 

On 1 Dec, 12:44, Richard Clark wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 11:56:55 -0800 (PST), art
wrote:

You pick a very poor place to talk about cowardice!
At that time Mr Kennedy Snr stated that islands of Britain
could not possibly stave off the armies that had overun Europe

Hi Arthur,

This week in class I learned from Ambassador Thomas Graham that
Hitler's second in command came to England and asked Neville
Chamberlain to reject Hitler's conditions for moving into
Czechoslovakia. He informed Chamberlain that the German High Command
was ready to topple Hitler if England showed strength.

We all know the rest of the story....

Yup. He was found to be insane and put in the Tower.
Germany did not want interference by Gt Britain.
In September 3rd 1939 Gt Britain was alone in
declaring war against Germanies gigantic armies.
That is what you have to do if you are the Worlds
policeman. Doing what is right regardless of the consequences
Pity the U.S. is unable to do the same.
Think how many countries the US government has
invaded since they took on the job and it looks
like there is more to come. Freedom fighters from
all over the World knew that there was a place to
go for the defence of freedom,and they came and
joined with us. Front and centre were the Polish
fighters with out which the British homeland
was in danger.The American ambassador fled to
home soil while the King and Queen stayed put.
It was a couple of years before the U.S. had
to join the fray and there was a Country still
there that they could join to carry on the fight.
It wasn't easy during those times but the British
held fast and resolute.
And nobody can take those proud times away that away.

Art Unwin KB9MZ....XG (uk)




73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Loading Coils; was : Vincent antenna
 

On 1 Dec, 13:11, Richard Clark wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:28:06 -0800 (PST), art
wrote:





On 1 Dec, 11:46, Richard Clark wrote:
On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:15:14 -0500, "AI4QJ" wrote:
Even Richard the Guru agreed that this could not be true.

Hi Dan,

I did?

.................................................. .........................
Such is the seduction of confirmatory bias
over the explicit answer to .
an explicit question. I warned you about
overly elaborate questions. .

.
Imagine, many here wail over my exacting
answers demanding something .
shorter. The same crowd wails when I
comply! Clearly their grief is .
because either response plunges a stake
into the corpse of logic they .
have been trying to
revive. .
.................................................. .........................-..

REMOVED FOR THE SAKE OF BREVITY.....NOT SURE
WHY THAT WAS INCLUDED

Not agreeing is NOT the same as disagreeing.

.................................................. .........................-.....

.
Does my status as Guru follow the ephemeral tide
of celebrity for .
supporting a cause? I could be called a fool
for the same reason. I .
willingly allow either to be attached to me (it
is a conceit of .
others, not mine; mine are far above that
ordinary rank). .

.
posters stay humble, even decimal point errors,
should they .
be so bold as to actually back up their
statements with "math" (a black art .
for
many) ;-) .

.
English is much more difficult than math. That
is why this is not a .
math problem. It isn't exactly an English
problem, but both language .
and math have been prostituted to serve a clumsy
argument with loading .
coils. Cecil is especially prone to tripping
over pebbles in the road .
and exclaiming they are intellectual
boulders. .

.
It is fun to watch, however. Tragedy viewed
from a distance is called .
comedy. Without it, lurkers would evaporate,
discussion would wither, .
and this group would flicker
out. .
.................................................. .........................-.....

REMOVED FOR THE SAKE OF BREVITY DON'T KNOW HOW
THAT GOT IN TO THIS DEBATE

Se Richard, two lines got the job done.Next time concentrate
on technical substance if you are aware of any

Hi Arthur,

You simply reposted my entire reply. Which two lines did you actually
read? (I won't comment on your sense of brevity.)

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No,I enclosed all but two lines as not being relavent to the subject
at hand,
just a bunch of wailing.I was looking for substance.You have made a
lot of postings
on this thread but no substance provided.What is it that you desire
from this group?

blah, blah, blah... was Loading Coils; was : Vincent antenna, superposition, etc.
 

"AI4QJ" wrote in message
...
IF I am guilty misunderstanding the nature of the controversy, you may not
believe this but it actually will not make me lose confidence in myself
(shudder).

don't lose confidence, they are all wrong... no, maybe that is too harsh,
they are all correct about one little thing each. if you will note, they
each have one special case that they keep falling back on like it is the
touchstone of all of electromagnetic. cecil and his optics, art and gauss's
law, richard and terman, one talking energy conservation, one talking adding
powers, then another adding fields, poynting vectors, skin depths,
reflecting waves, interfering waves that never reflected in the first place,
apples, oranges, and broccoli, and never the twain shall meet... its been
this way for years. it used to be fun, now its just getting monotonous.
you guys should go try your arguments in sci.physics.electromag, over there
you might find fresh idiots to soak up your wisdom... they like tesla,
freaky coils, permanent magnet machines, and faster than light stuff, you
guys would fit right in.