Richard Clark wrote:
How much power was applied to the network?

The minimum that my IC-756PRO would deliver,
probably around five watts. The exact power
did not need to be known in order to obtain
the phase measurements.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:29:29 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Richard Clark wrote:
How much power was applied to the network?

The minimum that my IC-756PRO would deliver,
probably around five watts. The exact power
did not need to be known in order to obtain
the phase measurements.
1W? 5W? 10W?

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:27:06 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Richard Clark wrote:
What was used as the phase reference?

Channel 1 was used for the phase reference for
What was the load for Channel 1 input?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:29:29 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

The minimum that my IC-756PRO would deliver
What load did the source drive?

Jim Kelley wrote:
That's true only if you assume the desired feedpoint impedance must be
the lowest possible value. And I think, as you have pointed out on more
than one occasion, the current maximum is not usually located at the
feedpoint, where it would otherwise be if the current minimum is located
90 degrees away.

The standing-wave current envelope on an ideal
transmission line is sinusoidal and the "current
maximum" is the current anti-node in the sinusoidal
envelope at which point the voltage is in phase
with the current. A loading coil is not an ideal
transmission line and its "current maximum" is not
caused by standing waves. The "current maximum" in
the coil is caused by adjacent coupling between the
coils and does not occur at a purely resistive point.

The current envelope at:

http://www.k6mhe.com/n7ws/LoadedAnte...s/image003.gif

Is clearly not sinusoidal. Although not shown, the
voltage at the current maximum in the coil is not
in phase with the current so in this case, the
"current maximum" is not a pure resistance, is
not the current anti-node point, and is not the
resonant point. The current at the bottom of the
antenna is in phase with the voltage and the feedpoint
impedance is purely resistive.

The coil puts a hump in the current which causes
the current envelope to deviate from sinusoidal.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Tom Donaly wrote:
I'm not an engineer, so I don't have an engineering
comprehension level.

Tom, you probably read this posting and replied
before you read my posting saying, "Way to go, Tom".
You are the only person on the newsgroup who came
up with a valid result and I salute you for that.

Now replace the 600 ohm line with a bugcatcher coil
with Z0=4000 ohms and a VF of 0.02, add a Z0=350 ohm
10 degree stinger and you will understand how base-
loaded mobile antennas work.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Richard Clark wrote:
On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:29:29 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Richard Clark wrote:
How much power was applied to the network?
The minimum that my IC-756PRO would deliver,
probably around five watts. The exact power
did not need to be known in order to obtain
the phase measurements.
1W? 5W? 10W?

Sorry, your 20 questions are up.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:18:34 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Richard Clark wrote:
On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:29:29 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Richard Clark wrote:
How much power was applied to the network?
The minimum that my IC-756PRO would deliver,
probably around five watts. The exact power
did not need to be known in order to obtain
the phase measurements.
1W? 5W? 10W?

Sorry, your 20 questions are up.

OK, so you will not adequately support your claim for measurement. On
the basis of what has been revealed, however, it shows absolutely no
evidence of transmission line behavior.

Surprising enough, the sum of those details disclosed comes close to
validating Tom's measurement! Sort of a win-win outcome. ;-)

I can see how your "plausible deniability" could be part of the
Administration's white paper on the Iranian threat.

Interviewer:
"Do you really see World War 3 and mushroom clouds Mr. President?"
the Texan responds:
Sorry, your 20 questions are up.

Should we try again to see if you, like that other Texan, has a second
chance at a legacy?

1W? 5W? 10W?

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:54:38 -0800, Richard Clark
wrote:

Should we try again to see if you, like that other Texan, has a second
chance at a legacy?

1W? 5W? 10W?

Let's just skip this last, 5W is enough, and suggest you proceed to
the other lingering question. It may seem tedious, but it is the work
of measurement and validation. If you are not interested in valid
data, there was no point in buying that scope, much less plugging a
circuit into it. One has to imagine that you probably haven't had it
calibrated - but even there I would accept it conformed to spec and
you would still be treading water.

The risk you run in answering these questions is in your responses
revealing failure. We have already passed that milepost sometime ago,
all that remains is to find out if you drove through the sign saying
the bridge was washed out.

It would be intriguing to discover how your rig drove 5W through the
coil to a 48:1 mismatch. I can well imagine that the insane load
detector limited you to 5W, but the detected levels must have been in
the microvolts (hard to measure phase shift in the trace bloom).

However, these details are lost in the mist of memory, or perhaps you
would pull on our heart-strings about crippling arthritis with
dragging those "notebooks" open to that page only to suffer through
the tears of your poor vision. You might consider digitizing
everything so it is searchable, and enjoy the benefits of browsers
that are tailored for the impaired.

Richard Clark wrote:
Sorry, your 20 questions are up.

OK, so you will not adequately support your claim for measurement. On
the basis of what has been revealed, however, it shows absolutely no
evidence of transmission line behavior.

If you want evidence of transmission line behavior
look at the EZNEC files for:

http://www.w5dxp.com/travstnd.gif

One file is a coil terminated in its characteristic
impedance. The other is the same coil unterminated.

Based on your questions, an ordinary prudent man would
assume that you are just wasting my time. Next thing
is that you will be ragging on me for the number of
postings I had to make in answering your questions.

If you want transmission line behavior evidence in
coils, look at Corum's Figure 2 in section III of
his paper.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com