"AI4QJ" wrote in
:

...
reflected currents in time. For a transmission line that is
electricall 2pi radians, I will always measure 0 volts at the
feedpoint and the endpoint of the line.

You must be assuming s/c at the endpoint?

For an open circuited transmission line, the phase shift between the
forward and reflected waves will have to be pi radians. The maximum
amplitude will be 2X.

The term "waves" isn't very clear. To resolve the issue that current into
the load is zero, a reflected wave of -I and consequently +V is required.
Now which "wave" is "phase shifted pi radians".

We are talking the same language now. We can agree that the only phase

Hmmm!

Owen

Tom Donaly wrote:

He's trying the old if-I'm-unreasonable-enough-I-can-get-him-to-quit-
posting routine. In other words, he's hoping you'll give up in anger.
I think it's about time to boycott Cecil - and his Sancho Panzas -
again. He makes no more sense than he ever did, and arguing with him
is a waste of energy anyway.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

It's useful to remember that in certain regions of and sub-cultures in
this country, the "winner" of a brawl or an argument is defined as the
last man standing. So all tactics are based on this goal. There's no
doubt this is the result being sought here.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Richard Clark wrote:

...
It would appear that our author has some doubt about the statement
above to have prefaced it with "if." A grammarian would point out
that there is no corresponding "then." As this doubt is obviously a
contorted product of tension, I won't look for spelling errors that
Cecil would expect me to find.
...
73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard:

The majority of your text has turned to attacking personalities instead
of attacking ignorance, "wifes' tales", inaccuracies, mis-calculations, etc.

Not only is this boring, it is plain disgusting. My gawd man, step back
for a moment or two and get a hold of yourself.

When you play the Shakespearian-antagonist in this comedic melodrama, I
find it amusing and entertaining (if sometimes trying.)

Come back to reality man ... you ain't done nothing yet which we have
not all been guilty of at one time or another. I enjoy the debate and
the flurry of "boning up on smith charts", don't ruin it for the rest of
us ... since I have adopted Arts' "Gaussian Theory", I have to keep iron
objects away from my antenna, thats' bad enough! Let us who would like
to have some fun--have it! grin

A lot of this is above my head, I have to strive to get the tools to
understand it--isn't that how it was meant to be when we entered the
ranks of amateur radio. I don't want a "Radio Oracle(s)" in r.r.a.a who
tells me of visions or "all is already known", it just ruins the
mistique, adventure and technical challenge which drew me here ... of
course, you are chatting with a fellow which used to listed to "theater
radio" on SW--"Only the Shadow knows!"

Besides, it's Christmas!

Regards,
JS

Roy Lewallen wrote:

...
It's useful to remember that in certain regions of and sub-cultures in
this country, the "winner" of a brawl or an argument is defined as the
last man standing. So all tactics are based on this goal. There's no
doubt this is the result being sought here.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Hmmm, I can't seem the .ez file attachment to support your text--did you
forget to attach it?

Regards,
JS

On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:40:55 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Richard Clark wrote:
It's not like you have actually pointed to any specific datum that was
in error.

If you believe that, you have your blinders on, which
any rational person already knew. A 3 ns delay through
a 2" dia, 100T, 10" coil at 4 MHz is impossible!!! Is
that specific enough for you?

Your data was more eloquent. Gad! you must hate it as much as you
avoid its mention.

Unfortunately, in the last 127 postings ...

You are responsible for half of those. I predicted
that you were going to complain about my number of
postings engineered by you and I was right.

After the bruising testimony of your own measurement, you certainly
needed some victory. :-)

Um, does your personal tragedy lead anywhere? I'm not interested in
reading the repetition of "impossible" being cried into your pillow.
Certainly you still have time to rummage up something lost in the
folds and recesses of that MENSA approved mind. Tom and your results
could have happened with Arthur's principle of antigravity, couldn't
it? That doesn't need anymore proof than your plaintive wails into
the cold void of an uncaring universe.

Roy and the others call this "last man standing." Myself, I would say
it is what the law calls an attractive nuisance - and barring
correspondence with any technical content, it is far more fun. Your
legacy is that for many, this is your ONLY exposure.

You want to be last? Hug Tom and pull the pin!

Tom Donaly wrote:
I think it's about time to boycott Cecil

Which means that you have run my suggested experiments
and realize that I am right so you are going to ploink
me like others have done in the past. Somehow, I
expected more out of you, Tom, than simply the guru
party line.

If I am wrong, it should be easy to prove. If I am
right, I deserve to be boycotted???? Shades of Galileo.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Roger wrote:
Hi Roy,

Could I add this observation? Both traveling waves and standing waves
can be measured. A single volt meter or ammeter will measure the
standing wave which is the sum of the traveling waves..

This isn't quite correct. A standing wave is the result of isn't the sum
of traveling waves. It's a description of the envelope of the current
distribution that sum produces. The sum of the traveling wave voltages
is the total voltage. The sum of the traveling wave currents is the
total current. It's relatively to measure the total voltage or current
at any point and, if you measure them at enough points you can use the
measurements to draw a graph of the standing wave.

A DIRECTIONAL
volt meter or ammeter will measure only the traveling wave within the
design direction, but can not distinguish between components from
multiple reflections that might combine.

Yes.

A directional voltmeter or ammeter will measure the same voltage or
current no matter where it is placed in the transmission line under
steady state conditions, assuming no resistive losses in the
transmission line.

That's only partially true. Both the traveling waves and the total
voltage and current have not only magnitude but also phase. A
directional coupler can measure both the magnitude and phase of the
traveling waves (but some directional detectors like a Bird wattmeter
indirectly measure only the amplitude). Traveling wave measurements at
different points along a lossless line will have the same magnitude, but
different phases. So the voltages or currents at those points aren't the
same.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Owen Duffy wrote:
"AI4QJ" wrote in
We are talking the same language now. We can agree that the only phase

Hmmm!

Be careful, Dan, the gurus are positioning you within
their politically incorrect sights. Next will come an
inquisition level attack with zero technical content
that will leave you wondering what happened.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Roy Lewallen wrote:
It's useful to remember that in certain regions of and sub-cultures in
this country, the "winner" of a brawl or an argument is defined as the
last man standing. So all tactics are based on this goal. There's no
doubt this is the result being sought here.

So let us in on your strategy, Roy. You freely admit
that the phase of standing-wave current is unchanging
yet you use exactly that current to "measure" the phase
shift through a loading coil. You admit that your methods
are meaningless but you continue to stand by them. Please
explain your agenda. Are you trying to establish a new
religion or what?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

AI4QJ wrote:
That is the ONLY phase information I can glean. It is fairly useless
knowledge. It says NOTHING about the delay of the current through the coil
including a loading coil that is functioning partially as an antenna.

Now if you can only convince W7EL and W8JI, you will
have accomplished more than I have in the past 3 years.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com