Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
 

Dave Heil wrote:

...
Heck, Brian, I was just going to suggest that you make some
substantional portion of your antennas out of long steel springs. You
could tie a rope to an end and change bands by simply letting out on the
rope and allowing the springs to compress, heh heh.

Dave K8MN

Actually, a very good recommendation--for some limited applications ...

I have seen just such done, only with phosphor-bronze springs, and of
limited frequency bandwidth ...

JS

Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
 

On 29 Dec, 17:55, John Smith wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
...
Heck, Brian, I was just going to suggest that you make some
substantional portion of your antennas out of long steel springs. *You
could tie a rope to an end and change bands by simply letting out on the
rope and allowing the springs to compress, heh heh.

Dave K8MN

Actually, a very good recommendation--for some limited applications ...

I have seen just such done, only with phosphor-bronze springs, and of
limited frequency bandwidth ...

JS

John
As you know from personal experience one can make antenna with
windings
finishing at the top of the radiator, but it must be seen as being
resonant
by virtue of the added resistance. This is exactly why Prof Hately was
unsuccesful with his contraversal small broadcast band antenna
first tested in Egypt, then Australia and then the Isle of Man.
This is also also why that antenna made by that guy in Florida(Hart?)
is not as efficient as he and Hately led themselves to believe.
Remember that our latest antenna inventor from RI also used a single
winding type of antenna in a way similar to a slinky to which you
were refering to, but then you have to ask yourself why these antennas
were not efficient, and why RI and others had to increase the diameter
of the
radiator wire because their designs melted? All of these antennas
problems
can be solved just by adding to the antenna length in a contra wound
fashion back to the antenna base thus negating the need for ground
planes and thicker wire.
This is exactly why the loop antenna that I was talking about
in another thread is to be made out of #22 wire since, unlike
the RI antenna the wire will not melt because of excess heat
Instead this lost energy will now contribute to radiation .
If you refer to the thread of "current travel down the center
of the radiator" in the absence of a radiating surface you
will better understand the relationships to Gauss and static
law. That thread has now come to a satisfactory completion
as far as I am concerned.
As for Cecil's postings,that thread will never come to a
satisfactory conclusion since the moment in time has not
been stipulated. But even if one side or another was
proven correct one must ask themselves as to what advantage
is it with respect to antennas if agreement is finally
arrived at? But then it is well known in psychology circles
that agreement can never come about when one of the
parties are angry or confused which provides for
personal attack
Very best regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ...xg

Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
 

art wrote:

...
As for Cecil's postings,that thread will never come to a
satisfactory conclusion since the moment in time has not
been stipulated. But even if one side or another was
proven correct one must ask themselves as to what advantage
is it with respect to antennas if agreement is finally
arrived at? But then it is well known in psychology circles
that agreement can never come about when one of the
parties are angry or confused which provides for
personal attack
Very best regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ...xg

Art:

You have some points, I pay attention to your posts ... I wonder, and
that is d*mn well why I came here ... your path is not my own ...

As for Cecil, he is attacked by mad dogs, disgusting really ... someday,
these dogs will have to rest--and realize how foolish their behavior ...
and then, most likely, it will all begin anew.

Cecil is interesting, something the others have either forgotten about,
or never had ...

Regards,
JS

Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
 

On Dec 29, 8:38 pm, Dave Heil wrote:
Brian Kelly wrote:
On Dec 29, 7:54 pm, art wrote:
On 29 Dec, 15:09, Brian Kelly wrote:

Denno wrote:
Hi. I have spool of #12 industrial grade tin coated copper strand
wire that I had planned on building a 40 meter vertical loop with.
While scouring the web, I came across a white paper on wire, tubing
and RF compatibility, and it said that tin-coated copper was "somewhat
inferior", but silver coated or pure copper strand were fine for
antenna use. Contrary to this, I have read in this Newsgroup that tin
or silver coating is a must-have for good RF radiation.
Any views on tin coated copper strand?
Also, where do you all find Copperweld? It sounds ideal, but I
haven't been able to find it anywhere.
Thanks!
The guy on the other end of the QSO will never be able to tell the
difference between your signals coming from your bare copper wire
antenna and those coming from your tinned copper wire antenna. Tinned
copper wire is much more corrosion-resistant than any form of bare
copper wire and tinned stranded wire is mechanically much more durable
than any form of solid wire when used as antennas.
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/05.htm
A 40M loop made from your #12 tinned stranded wire should serve you
well for a long time so go for it.
My favorite source for all sorts of "ham wires":
http://thewireman.com/index.shtml
The ultimate antenna wire in my view is his #13 'Toughcoated' tinned
stranded 'Copperweld' P/N 531
w3rv
.
If you have time to wait before you work on your antenna
I expect to put an antenna together with #22 tinned solid wire.
I intend to wind my wire on a small diameter plastic tubing
for a sufficient length to slide onto 3/4 of the circumference
leaving the remaining quarter for the wire to stretch to find
a sweet spot. When I have reached required the 3/4 length I will
then continue the winding back to the starting point so that both
feed ponts are close together.It is required that you cut the wire
at the end of the windings so that you can unwind each wire
end one loop and then fasten the ends with a wire nut.
This loosens the turns just enough to make it easier to slide
of the former and onto the hula hoop. Tho I am confident that
a sweet spot will occur with stretching the windings. It
is usefull to add a plate capacitor in series with the feed wire
which allows you to move freely the wide existing bandwidth of the
helical loop of the antenna. The information given will allow
you to procede with building your own if your time is getting short.
If you cannot get sufficient wire length on the former for the
frequency required then by all means run another wire length
over the previous windings before you slide it over the hula hoop.
Hoops were less than $5 at Wallmart the last time I looked and they
have a insert in the tubing that can be removed for the
assembly operation This method of winding gives multiple resonant
points
way closer than you would find using other methods so the addition
of the capacitor if large enough will allow you to cover the other
bands.
If you are smart you can also stretch the windings at will if you
have the need to get closer to alternate frequencies.
As a side issue it is much better if you use solid wire insulated
wire rathe than stranded as this provides much better outward spring
to the loops and some clearance over the hoola hoop during assembly.
The above will give the same radiation as if the wire was stretched
out
but with a minimum of volume used, tho the take of angle rules still
stands with respect to height. Also note that with the radiation
being concentrated at a relative point basis one should not stand
near the hex loop near field for health reasons.
Best regards and good luck.
Art Unwin KB9MZ...xg

Arthur 'ole bean have you gotten too far into your Christmas spirits
again?

Heck, Brian, I was just going to suggest that you make some
substantional portion of your antennas out of long steel springs. You
could tie a rope to an end and change bands by simply letting out on the
rope and allowing the springs to compress, heh heh.

Yeah right, I really need rope-tuned Slinkys . . .

Dave K8MN

w3rv

Tin Coated Copper Strand Inferior for Wire HF Ant?
 

Brian Kelly wrote:
On Dec 29, 8:38 pm, Dave Heil wrote:
Brian Kelly wrote:

Arthur 'ole bean have you gotten too far into your Christmas spirits
again?
Heck, Brian, I was just going to suggest that you make some
substantional portion of your antennas out of long steel springs. You
could tie a rope to an end and change bands by simply letting out on the
rope and allowing the springs to compress, heh heh.

Yeah right, I really need rope-tuned Slinkys . . .

Don't give up! I've been reading some of the old ARRL Antenna
Handbooks. You're a mechanical guy. I see a chain drive going though a
wall, rigged to be aimed using the steering wheel from a '60 Impala.

I'm thinking we could rework that rope-tuned slinky idea into something
commerically marketable if we use steel cable and stepper motors. We
could call it the "Erstepp" or something like that.

Dave K8MN