Grounding in Sand
 

Sometime in May I expect to be moving into a new house, built on
Pacific Northwest coastal Sand. It is at 100' elevation about 1/3 mile
from where the Siuslaw river dumps into the Pacific Ocean.

In the past, I usually drive at least one decent 8' ground rod outside
my shack for a station ground, but am wondering what you guys might advise
in this regard with having sand instead of dirt.


Ed K7AAT

Grounding in Sand
 

"Ed_G" wrote in message
. 192.196...


Sometime in May I expect to be moving into a new house, built on
Pacific Northwest coastal Sand. It is at 100' elevation about 1/3 mile
from where the Siuslaw river dumps into the Pacific Ocean.

In the past, I usually drive at least one decent 8' ground rod outside
my shack for a station ground, but am wondering what you guys might
advise
in this regard with having sand instead of dirt.


Ed K7AAT

longer fatter rods, more of them, add horizontal buried radials, the same
thing you would do in any other poor grounding situation... except in sand
its much easier to bury radials and drive more rods than if you are sitting
on rock, so do more of it.

Grounding in Sand
 

In article . 196,
"Ed_G" wrote:

Sometime in May I expect to be moving into a new house, built on
Pacific Northwest coastal Sand. It is at 100' elevation about 1/3 mile
from where the Siuslaw river dumps into the Pacific Ocean.

In the past, I usually drive at least one decent 8' ground rod outside
my shack for a station ground, but am wondering what you guys might advise
in this regard with having sand instead of dirt.


Ed K7AAT

To bad you can't get at the ReBar in the concrete pad your new house may
be built on. That grid, if tied together properly, would make a JimDandy
Low Impedance RF Ground.

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

Grounding in Sand
 

Bruce in alaska wrote:
In article . 196,
"Ed_G" wrote:

Sometime in May I expect to be moving into a new house, built on
Pacific Northwest coastal Sand. It is at 100' elevation about 1/3 mile
from where the Siuslaw river dumps into the Pacific Ocean.

In the past, I usually drive at least one decent 8' ground rod outside
my shack for a station ground, but am wondering what you guys might advise
in this regard with having sand instead of dirt.


Ed K7AAT

To bad you can't get at the ReBar in the concrete pad your new house may
be built on. That grid, if tied together properly, would make a JimDandy
Low Impedance RF Ground.


Locate a piece of rebar in the concrete and carefully chip the concrete
away until you reach the metal. Then attach a heavy gage wire to the
rebar and close the hole with concrete patch. You will now have access
to the grounding grid.

Dave WD9BDZ

Grounding in Sand
 

longer fatter rods, more of them, add horizontal buried radials, the
same thing you would do in any other poor grounding situation...
except in sand its much easier to bury radials and drive more rods
than if you are sitting on rock, so do more of it.



Thanks, Dave. That is probably what I may do, I don't want to be
putting in overkill for my situation ( that would be rods every 8 feet
all around the house and connected by #0 copper! ). I'm more interested
in grounding for electrical safety than lightning protection. I'll
probably just put in two or three standard 8' rods and connect them with
large copper cable. My question was aimed more at wondering how
effective for this purpose a ground rod or three would be in sand......

And thanks to those who mentioned the rebar grid... but this house is
on pillars, with rebar only in the perimeter foundation.... and well
embedded in the center of the concrete, at that, so as to preclude any
access.


Ed K7AAT

Grounding in Sand
 

Ed_G wrote:

Thanks, Dave. That is probably what I may do, I don't want to be
putting in overkill for my situation ( that would be rods every 8 feet
all around the house and connected by #0 copper! ). I'm more interested
in grounding for electrical safety than lightning protection. I'll
probably just put in two or three standard 8' rods and connect them with
large copper cable. My question was aimed more at wondering how
effective for this purpose a ground rod or three would be in sand......

And thanks to those who mentioned the rebar grid... but this house is
on pillars, with rebar only in the perimeter foundation.... and well
embedded in the center of the concrete, at that, so as to preclude any
access.

For an electrical safety ground, you should follow the requirements of
the National Electrical Code (NEC).

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Grounding in Sand
 

"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...
Ed_G wrote:

Thanks, Dave. That is probably what I may do, I don't want to be
putting in overkill for my situation ( that would be rods every 8 feet
all around the house and connected by #0 copper! ). I'm more interested
in grounding for electrical safety than lightning protection. I'll
probably just put in two or three standard 8' rods and connect them with
large copper cable. My question was aimed more at wondering how
effective for this purpose a ground rod or three would be in sand......

And thanks to those who mentioned the rebar grid... but this house is
on pillars, with rebar only in the perimeter foundation.... and well
embedded in the center of the concrete, at that, so as to preclude any
access.

For an electrical safety ground, you should follow the requirements of the
National Electrical Code (NEC).

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

That was my thinking for electrical safety and not for RF. Local conditions
vary and change over the years.

Ask the building inspector what is required for your area. In my area it is
two 8 foot ground rods spaced so far apart. I don't deal with the codes so
can not tell the distance, but it is probably around 6 feet apart and
connected by a continious conductor back to the breaker box. I think it is
atleast # 6 copper wire for the ground.

Whatever you do , connect all the grounds around the house together,
including the antenna and cable/phone lines if you have them.

Grounding in Sand
 

"David G. Nagel" wrote in message
et...
Locate a piece of rebar in the concrete and carefully chip the concrete
away until you reach the metal. Then attach a heavy gage wire to the rebar
and close the hole with concrete patch. You will now have access to the
grounding grid.

Dave WD9BDZ

One should never have any rebar exposed to the air. It will rust and expand
breaking the concrete. If put in correctly, it will be about 3 inches
inside the concrete.

Grounding in Sand
 

For an electrical safety ground, you should follow the requirements of
the National Electrical Code (NEC).

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


True, but rather impractical for most hams, I suspect. I would
have to run a #6 or larger cable over 100' to bond the ground rod just
outside my ham shack to the building power entry ground.

So.... would I be better off just relying on the wall outlet ground
to my equipment? I'm just looking for electrical power safety, plus a
little help in possible static dissipation.


Ed K7AAT

Grounding in Sand
 

On 24 Feb 2008 19:57:16 GMT, "Ed_G"
wrote:

True, but rather impractical for most hams, I suspect.

Hi Ed,

The risk of life is a major issue of practicality.

I would
have to run a #6 or larger cable over 100' to bond the ground rod just
outside my ham shack to the building power entry ground.

I will take your word for it and presume that it also conforms to
code.

So.... would I be better off just relying on the wall outlet ground
to my equipment? I'm just looking for electrical power safety, plus a
little help in possible static dissipation.

OK, let's say for the sake of argument that you did NOT do the 100'
tying together of grounds. Let's further consider why there are
ground rods driven and linked in the first place = all grounds are not
all at the same potential. Hint: ground is inhabited by both
resistances and currents. Those currents through those resistances
create a potential difference. I am not speaking of "static" but
honest to goodness 60Hz power.

I can full well anticipate that you are bridging this potential with a
coaxial cable out to a remote feed point - not uncommon at all.

Let's take that to be a fact and proceed to another common action that
is frequently taken. Let's say you are having problems with noise in
your rigs, or strange modulations riding on your signal, or tuning
issues. You might reach for the antenna connector behind your tuner.
The tuner is strapped to ground, and the cable's coaxial shield
supplies this ground to that remote drive point.

As you lean over the tuner, you hold it with one hand, you grab the
coax connector shell, unscrew it and as it separates from the jack
connection the ground currents seek the path formerly through the coax
shield and instead travel through you, hand to hand - across the
heart, and you are killed.

Where do we send the flowers?

p.s. By the way, all those problems I described that caused you to
remove that connector? They come from poor grounding exactly as
described.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC