On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:15:21 GMT
Cecil Moore wrote:

Roger Sparks wrote:
To me, this shows that my traveling wave analysis on an instant basis
is not correct because the energy can not be located precisely on a
degree-by-degree scale. Yes, it is correct on the average over 360
degrees, but not instantaneously. We are missing something.

What you are missing is the localized interference patterns
within the individual cycles. The interference changes from
destructive to constructive every 90 degrees. For every
negative (destructive) interference term, there is an equal
magnitude positive (constructive) interference term 90 degrees
later. These, of course, average out to zero. Exactly the
same thing happens when a coil or capacitor is present in
a circuit. When the instantaneous voltage of a source is
zero and thus delivering zero instantaneous power, a
circuit capacitor is delivering energy back into the
circuit that can be dissipated by a resistor.

Central to traveling waves is the assumption that the wave is not
compressable. The energy is assumed to flow in a consistantly
predictable mannor that is linear and described by a sine wave.
That assumption is violated when energy is delayed for reasons
other than distance of travel, which is demonstrated in this example.

Power is certainly compressible. One can stuff 100 amphere-
hours into a battery in 2 hours and take 20 hours to remove it.
Why can't 60 watts of instantaneous power be stuffed into
a reactance and be removed 90 degrees later?

I am not ready to suggest a cure for my traveling wave analysis. I
only see that it does not work to my expectations.

Your expectations seem to be based on a conservation of
power principle which doesn't exist. There is no violation
of linearity if the energy dissipation is delayed by 90
degrees or by ten billion years.

I don't recall any published material where anyone tried
to explain where the instantaneous energy goes while at
the same time denying the possibility of interference.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Hi Cecil,

I feel better today. I think I have connected the dots and now have the spreadsheet showing that we really can use the traveling waves to solve the shorted transmission line problem on a instantaneous basis without the delay of energy into the next half cycle.

Here is a link to the new spreadsheet.

http://www.fairpoint.net/~rsparks/Sm...Reflection.pdf

I used the logic and formula presented in my post "Subject: The Rest of the Story
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:07:44 -0700"

You called it interference. Keith used your power equation and called the interference term a mathematical correction. It looks to me like the correction can be avoided by choosing the correct sin wave offset.

Ultimately, the waves can be resolved into one more powerful wave carrying the power described by Keith's "false power" equation. This is demonstrated in a spreadsheet found at

http://www.fairpoint.net/~rsparks/Re...em%20Power.pdf

You need to take a look at the spreadsheets. I think they support the theory that we can track the power on an instant basis using traveling waves.
--
73, Roger, W7WKB