Peter Brackett wrote:
What are you talking about ? There are no "circulators" in a Bird!

Actually, there is a simple circulator in a Bird. That's how
it separates the forward stuff from the reflected stuff.
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP

Cecil:

[snip]
From the IEEE Dictionary: "directional coupler - a two port circulator"

Heh, heh, just kidding. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp
[snip]

:-)

Heh, heh... Actually the closest thing to a "two port circulator" is an
"ideal
transformer" it has the same scattering matrix as a two port circulator.

BTW... here's an interesting rhetorical question that is often posed
in texts on the scattering matrix.

How many different kinds of three port circulators are there?

--
Peter K1PO
Indialantic By-the-Sea, FL.

All this time, I thought it was a Byrd wattmeter. I mean, if we are
talking details here, then let's get it right. Right?

Dave
KZ1O

p.s. And before you give me s**t about this, look below where he says
"70.7 volts". Down to three digits of accuracy, but the spelling is
wrong (in fact, a copyright violation) two words later.

Come on, do the Math (and Spelling).

JGBOYLES wrote:

Hi, I thought I understood this but recent discussions left me wondering.
A Bird Wattmeter provides a voltage that is proportional to the forward power
minus the reflected power. This assumes the output impedance is known and
constant, usually 50+-j0. Assume a Bird has a 0-10vdc meter for indication. I
don't know what it is, but for discussion.
Input 100 watts into a 50 ohm load, and you get 70.7 volts, the Bird scales
this to 1 volt, and you get 10% deflection on your wattmeter, or 100 watts.
Input 1000 watts and you get 223.6 volts which the Bird scales to 3.16 volts,
or 316 watts. 316 does not equal 1000, so the scale on the meter has to have
V**2 relationship to indicate 1000 watts. So 1000 watts is 31.6% of full
scale. I thought all Ham wattmeters did this. Of course it is highly
dependent on the Z the wattmeter sees. Wattmeters that actually multiply V and
I are another subject, it is hard to keep them in line without causing some
insertion loss, is it not?
73 Gary N4AST


--

Please yank that last "t" from my email address.
It's "net", not "nett". You know how to do that,
but the spammers won't.

The output of the element is a function of both voltage and current at the
point it is measured. The element sums 2 voltages, one that represents the
voltage at the point of test and the other that represents the current. When
SWR is 1:1 these 2 voltages are equal so that the voltage output is actually
twice that of what is contributed by voltage alone at the point of test when
measuring forward power. This is why it would be zero when measuring
reverse( the voltage representing the current adds negatively). In the
hundred watt example you used the voltage out to the meter would be 141.4v
not 70.7v

"JGBOYLES" wrote in message
...
Hi, I thought I understood this but recent discussions left me wondering.
A Bird Wattmeter provides a voltage that is proportional to the forward
power
minus the reflected power. This assumes the output impedance is known and
constant, usually 50+-j0. Assume a Bird has a 0-10vdc meter for
indication. I
don't know what it is, but for discussion.
Input 100 watts into a 50 ohm load, and you get 70.7 volts, the Bird
scales
this to 1 volt, and you get 10% deflection on your wattmeter, or 100
watts.
Input 1000 watts and you get 223.6 volts which the Bird scales to 3.16
volts,
or 316 watts. 316 does not equal 1000, so the scale on the meter has to
have
V**2 relationship to indicate 1000 watts. So 1000 watts is 31.6% of full
scale. I thought all Ham wattmeters did this. Of course it is highly
dependent on the Z the wattmeter sees. Wattmeters that actually multiply
V and
I are another subject, it is hard to keep them in line without causing
some
insertion loss, is it not?
73 Gary N4AST