On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:51:06 -0800 (PST), Art Unwin
wrote:

From a ham radio point of view we have the ARRL organization but the
do not seem interested in advances in the science
even tho they have the vehicle (QST) to keep its members up to date.

You might want to look at QEX magazine. It's the ARRL technical
publication for experimenters:
http://www.arrl.org/qex/

Also, publication, free or otherwise, constitutes disclosure, which
has signifigant effects on the patent process. Premature public
disclosure can easily invalidate a patent. It must be done carefully,
with due consideration for the implications of publication. Here's a
short summary of the situation:
http://uwadmnweb.uwyo.edu/rpc/InventionDisclosure.asp

The ARRL's interest in advances in the sciences is intentionally
limited to their applications to amateur radio. While hams may have a
good general interest in scientific advances, the number that apply to
amateur radio is rather limited. I have specific opinions about some
of these advances, such as the ARRL's discovery of Wi-Fi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_speed_multimedia
but I don't have the time or strength for yet another endless debate.

In my never humble opinion, the ARRL's support and publication of ham
inspired new technology has been usually late, limited, and sometimes
wrong. (NBFM using commercial radios, FM repeaters, packet radio,
packet networks, computahs, etc)[1]. Fortunately, this has not always
been the case, as PSK31, bizarre antennas, satellite, and SDR have
been well supported and published. Personally, I would be quite happy
if the ARRL concentrates on what nobody else is doing, which is acting
as a lobbyist for amateur radio with the FCC and the government.


[1] I still recall articles in QST in the late 1960's and early 1970's
on how to convert commercial FM radios into AM radios. I often
wondered what the ARRL was thinking.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Nov 25, 1:53*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:51:06 -0800 (PST), Art Unwin

wrote:
From a ham radio point of view we have the ARRL organization but the
do not seem interested in advances in the science
even tho they have the vehicle (QST) to keep its members up to date.

You might want to look at QEX magazine. *It's the ARRL technical
publication for experimenters:
http://www.arrl.org/qex/

Also, publication, free or otherwise, constitutes disclosure, which
has signifigant effects on the patent process. *Premature public
disclosure can easily invalidate a patent. *It must be done carefully,
with due consideration for the implications of publication. *Here's a
short summary of the situation:
http://uwadmnweb.uwyo.edu/rpc/InventionDisclosure.asp

The ARRL's interest in advances in the sciences is intentionally
limited to their applications to amateur radio. *While hams may have a
good general interest in scientific advances, the number that apply to
amateur radio is rather limited. *I have specific opinions about some
of these advances, such as the ARRL's discovery of Wi-Fi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_speed_multimedia
but I don't have the time or strength for yet another endless debate.

In my never humble opinion, the ARRL's support and publication of ham
inspired new technology has been usually late, limited, and sometimes
wrong. *(NBFM using commercial radios, FM repeaters, packet radio,
packet networks, computahs, etc)[1]. *Fortunately, this has not always
been the case, as PSK31, bizarre antennas, satellite, and SDR have
been well supported and published. *Personally, I would be quite happy
if the ARRL concentrates on what nobody else is doing, which is acting
as a lobbyist for amateur radio with the FCC and the government.

[1] I still recall articles in QST in the late 1960's and early 1970's
on how to convert commercial FM radios into AM radios. *I often
wondered what the ARRL was thinking.

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

Hmm that is interesting. Seems like the popular thinking is to resist
change as everything is O.K.
EXCEPT fior the ARRL and CQ magazine. Can't really fault that tho I
suspect that many would be better of saving their money
and use it to set up a personal business instead of spending it at
university. Seems like the financial advantages of old with respect to
return
has floated away in the wind. Why go to university if the older books
like Termans and Jackson has everything that anybody wants to know and
at a reasonable price compared to the price of books that Universities
foist on their students?. Does the world really need advances in
science and for whome?
Regards
Art

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:51:06 -0800 (PST), Art Unwin
wrote:

From a ham radio point of view we have the ARRL organization but the
do not seem interested in advances in the science
even tho they have the vehicle (QST) to keep its members up to date.

You might want to look at QEX magazine. It's the ARRL technical
publication for experimenters:
http://www.arrl.org/qex/

Also, publication, free or otherwise, constitutes disclosure, which
has signifigant effects on the patent process. Premature public
disclosure can easily invalidate a patent. It must be done carefully,
with due consideration for the implications of publication. Here's a
short summary of the situation:
http://uwadmnweb.uwyo.edu/rpc/InventionDisclosure.asp

The ARRL's interest in advances in the sciences is intentionally
limited to their applications to amateur radio. While hams may have a
good general interest in scientific advances, the number that apply to
amateur radio is rather limited. I have specific opinions about some
of these advances, such as the ARRL's discovery of Wi-Fi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_speed_multimedia
but I don't have the time or strength for yet another endless debate.

In my never humble opinion, the ARRL's support and publication of ham
inspired new technology has been usually late, limited, and sometimes
wrong. (NBFM using commercial radios, FM repeaters, packet radio,
packet networks, computahs, etc)[1]. Fortunately, this has not always
been the case, as PSK31, bizarre antennas, satellite, and SDR have
been well supported and published. Personally, I would be quite happy
if the ARRL concentrates on what nobody else is doing, which is acting
as a lobbyist for amateur radio with the FCC and the government.


[1] I still recall articles in QST in the late 1960's and early 1970's
on how to convert commercial FM radios into AM radios. I often
wondered what the ARRL was thinking.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Excellent post. The problem with QEX is not enough submissions. As for the
QST AM mods, I was thinking that was ATV, but maybe you were talking about
something else. The same applies to QST. If there aren't enough
submissions, the only recourse is to hire writers to do columns or fill the
empiness with drivel and ads like 73. The best things to come out of 73 was
the Star Trek communicator clone and Byte magazine. I hate how Ham Radio
magazine died out. I was President of the local ham club for a while, and
wound up doing the newletter too. For the three or four years of that, I
only got 3 submissions from the membership. All the rest I had to either
pull out of my A** every month or go around like a reporter and interrogate
people.

On the other hand - What neat inventions can we come up with to share with
the World, so it can be exploited and give reason to take more of our
spectrum? Interesting to note how public safety volunteers showed Los
Angeles Sheriff how neat ATV was and they turned around and petitioned the
FCC for those frequencies.

Oh well, we will probably all be shot in head by the next regime because we
are an irritation.

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:48:50 GMT, "JB" wrote:

Excellent post.

Thanks. I'll add one more notch on my LCD frame.

The problem with QEX is not enough submissions.

Well, they rejected one of mine many years ago. The problem was they
never really said why. When I pressed the editor, he replied that he
had enough submissions of sufficient quality. I tried again later and
had it rejected because I wasn't an ARRL member at the time (because I
was broke). I don't know what was going on, but I wasn't thrilled and
never bothered again.

As for the
QST AM mods, I was thinking that was ATV, but maybe you were talking about
something else.

Something else was converting commercial land mobile FM radios from
WBFM or later NBFM to AM (A3A) modulation. Mostly, it was adding a
low level modulation circuit, and converting the power stages from
Class C to Class A or AB. To me, it was a little like publishing an
article today on converting a Prius Hybrid automobile to only run on
gasoline.

The same applies to QST. If there aren't enough
submissions, the only recourse is to hire writers to do columns or fill the
empiness with drivel and ads like 73.

Probably true. I submitted an article in about 2002 on using the
audio time delay through a repeater to do hyperbolic (Loran A style)
vehicle location. I forgot why it was rejected because I ended up in
the hospital and my memory from that period is rather muddled. When I
inquired about the submission a year later, they said that they
couldn't find it or that it was lost. Then, I mentioned that I still
wasn't an ARRL member and all communications ceased.

The best things to come out of 73 was
the Star Trek communicator clone and Byte magazine. I hate how Ham Radio
magazine died out.

73 published Joe Moell's column on amateur radio direction finding. To
me, it was worth the price of a subscription. Before I tossed my
archives, I ripped out and saved most of these issues. Wanna build a
rotating antenna direction finder? The only references in ham radio
land you'll find are in these 73 magazine issues. Same with various
microwave columns. I could have done without Wayne Green's endless
editorials.

I was President of the local ham club for a while, and
wound up doing the newletter too. For the three or four years of that, I
only got 3 submissions from the membership. All the rest I had to either
pull out of my A** every month or go around like a reporter and interrogate
people.

Our current newsletter editor complains about the same thing.
http://www.k6bj.org
Still, he manages to produce a superior ham radio newsletter. I used
to submit irregular technical articles and obnoxious opinionated radio
politix articles. However, one article that I spend considerable time
writing was butchered beyond recognition. When I asked for an
explanation, I got nothing. So, no more articles from me.

On the other hand - What neat inventions can we come up with to share with
the World, so it can be exploited and give reason to take more of our
spectrum?

It probably shouldn't be an invention. More likely, an unusual or
interesting application of some existing technology. Your ATV camera
for disaster services is a good example. Direction finding is still a
common problem (i.e. stuck public safety transmitters). Perhaps
demonstrating how some of the dumb|great ideas originating out FCC can
be made to work (i.e. white space, ultra narrow band FM, on the fly
TDMA, etc). I could think of lots of useful things to build, design,
buy, or analyze.

Interesting to note how public safety volunteers showed Los
Angeles Sheriff how neat ATV was and they turned around and petitioned the
FCC for those frequencies.

We had some floods a few years ago. The levee broke along the Pajaro
river. One of our members has a helicopter and volunteered to fly an
ATV camera over the area for the sheriff. On screen was GPS position
in APRS format. Everything worked and everyone was suitably
impressed. Then, nothing. No clue exactly why, but my guess is that
homebrew is not funded by Homeland Security.

Oh well, we will probably all be shot in head by the next regime because we
are an irritation.

Nope. We will all be promoted to a position of responsibility, where
we will be setup to fail, thus demonstrating that technologists are no
better at running the country than politicians, crooks, bureaucrats,
and thugs.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

snip .

We had some floods a few years ago. The levee broke along the Pajaro
river. One of our members has a helicopter and volunteered to fly an
ATV camera over the area for the sheriff. On screen was GPS position
in APRS format. Everything worked and everyone was suitably
impressed. Then, nothing. No clue exactly why, but my guess is that
homebrew is not funded by Homeland Security.

Homeland Security is among the worst things that ever happened to this
country. Just their role in interfering with airline travel (TSA) should be
enough to put them out of business -- but no.

Feel free to dismiss me as being hopelessly shallow, but ... On my way home
from work one day, I shared the train with a young babe in a form-fitting
uniform. When I got around to identifying the patches on the uniform, I
realized she worked for the TSA. I immediately stopped looking at her. No
longer ogle-worthy.

Sal M. Onella wrote:

...
Homeland Security is among the worst things that ever happened to this
country. Just their role in interfering with airline travel (TSA) should be
enough to put them out of business -- but no.

Feel free to dismiss me as being hopelessly shallow, but ... On my way home
from work one day, I shared the train with a young babe in a form-fitting
uniform. When I got around to identifying the patches on the uniform, I
realized she worked for the TSA. I immediately stopped looking at her. No
longer ogle-worthy.



You just raised yourself on my "smarts scale" about 100 points. This
gov't has told us, "Be afraid, be very, very afraid." But then, it has
left the borders open so any idiot with a stick of dynamite, a sack of
drugs, or a suitcase nuke can enter with little problem ...

Now something is wrong. I am beginning to believe I live in a country
of idiots and you and I are the only ones suspecting something is wrong
.... :-(

Or, what smells like Bleucheese?

Regards,
JS

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:00:06 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:48:50 GMT, "JB" wrote:

Excellent post.

Thanks. I'll add one more notch on my LCD frame.

The problem with QEX is not enough submissions.

Well, they rejected one of mine many years ago. The problem was they
never really said why. When I pressed the editor, he replied that he
had enough submissions of sufficient quality. I tried again later and
had it rejected because I wasn't an ARRL member at the time (because I
was broke). I don't know what was going on, but I wasn't thrilled and
never bothered again.

As for the
QST AM mods, I was thinking that was ATV, but maybe you were talking about
something else.

Something else was converting commercial land mobile FM radios from
WBFM or later NBFM to AM (A3A) modulation. Mostly, it was adding a
low level modulation circuit, and converting the power stages from
Class C to Class A or AB. To me, it was a little like publishing an
article today on converting a Prius Hybrid automobile to only run on
gasoline.

The same applies to QST. If there aren't enough
submissions, the only recourse is to hire writers to do columns or fill the
empiness with drivel and ads like 73.

Probably true. I submitted an article in about 2002 on using the
audio time delay through a repeater to do hyperbolic (Loran A style)
vehicle location. I forgot why it was rejected because I ended up in
the hospital and my memory from that period is rather muddled. When I
inquired about the submission a year later, they said that they
couldn't find it or that it was lost. Then, I mentioned that I still
wasn't an ARRL member and all communications ceased.

The best things to come out of 73 was
the Star Trek communicator clone and Byte magazine. I hate how Ham Radio
magazine died out.

73 published Joe Moell's column on amateur radio direction finding. To
me, it was worth the price of a subscription. Before I tossed my
archives, I ripped out and saved most of these issues. Wanna build a
rotating antenna direction finder? The only references in ham radio
land you'll find are in these 73 magazine issues. Same with various
microwave columns. I could have done without Wayne Green's endless
editorials.

I was President of the local ham club for a while, and
wound up doing the newletter too. For the three or four years of that, I
only got 3 submissions from the membership. All the rest I had to either
pull out of my A** every month or go around like a reporter and interrogate
people.

Our current newsletter editor complains about the same thing.
http://www.k6bj.org
Still, he manages to produce a superior ham radio newsletter. I used
to submit irregular technical articles and obnoxious opinionated radio
politix articles. However, one article that I spend considerable time
writing was butchered beyond recognition. When I asked for an
explanation, I got nothing. So, no more articles from me.

On the other hand - What neat inventions can we come up with to share with
the World, so it can be exploited and give reason to take more of our
spectrum?

It probably shouldn't be an invention. More likely, an unusual or
interesting application of some existing technology. Your ATV camera
for disaster services is a good example. Direction finding is still a
common problem (i.e. stuck public safety transmitters). Perhaps
demonstrating how some of the dumb|great ideas originating out FCC can
be made to work (i.e. white space, ultra narrow band FM, on the fly
TDMA, etc). I could think of lots of useful things to build, design,
buy, or analyze.

Interesting to note how public safety volunteers showed Los
Angeles Sheriff how neat ATV was and they turned around and petitioned the
FCC for those frequencies.

We had some floods a few years ago. The levee broke along the Pajaro
river. One of our members has a helicopter and volunteered to fly an
ATV camera over the area for the sheriff. On screen was GPS position
in APRS format. Everything worked and everyone was suitably
impressed. Then, nothing. No clue exactly why, but my guess is that
homebrew is not funded by Homeland Security.

Oh well, we will probably all be shot in head by the next regime because we
are an irritation.

Nope. We will all be promoted to a position of responsibility, where
we will be setup to fail, thus demonstrating that technologists are no
better at running the country than politicians, crooks, bureaucrats,
and thugs.

How very weird. I am the pretty much acknowledged top technologist in
my workplace. Yet i cannot get promoted.

YMMV

On Nov 30, 6:55*pm, JosephKK wrote:
On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:00:06 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:



On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:48:50 GMT, "JB" wrote:

Excellent post.

Thanks. *I'll add one more notch on my LCD frame.

The problem with QEX is not enough submissions.

Well, they rejected one of mine many years ago. *The problem was they
never really said why. *When I pressed the editor, he replied that he
had enough submissions of sufficient quality. *I tried again later and
had it rejected because I wasn't an ARRL member at the time (because I
was broke). *I don't know what was going on, but I wasn't thrilled and
never bothered again.

As for the
QST AM mods, *I was thinking that was ATV, but maybe you were talking about
something else.

Something else was converting commercial land mobile FM radios from
WBFM or later NBFM to AM (A3A) modulation. *Mostly, it was adding a
low level modulation circuit, and converting the power stages from
Class C to Class A or AB. *To me, it was a little like publishing an
article today on converting a Prius Hybrid automobile to only run on
gasoline.

The same applies to QST. *If there aren't enough
submissions, the only recourse is to hire writers to do columns or fill the
empiness with drivel and ads like 73.

Probably true. *I submitted an article in about 2002 on using the
audio time delay through a repeater to do hyperbolic (Loran A style)
vehicle location. *I forgot why it was rejected because I ended up in
the hospital and my memory from that period is rather muddled. *When I
inquired about the submission a year later, they said that they
couldn't find it or that it was lost. *Then, I mentioned that I still
wasn't an ARRL member and all communications ceased.

The best things to come out of 73 was
the Star Trek communicator clone and Byte magazine. *I hate how Ham Radio
magazine died out.

73 published Joe Moell's column on amateur radio direction finding. To
me, it was worth the price of a subscription. *Before I tossed my
archives, I ripped out and saved most of these issues. *Wanna build a
rotating antenna direction finder? *The only references in ham radio
land you'll find are in these 73 magazine issues. *Same with various
microwave columns. *I could have done without Wayne Green's endless
editorials.

I was President of the local ham club for a while, and
wound up doing the newletter too. *For the three or four years of that, I
only got 3 submissions from the membership. *All the rest I had to either
pull out of my A** every month or go around like a reporter and interrogate
people.

Our current newsletter editor complains about the same thing.
http://www.k6bj.org
Still, he manages to produce a superior ham radio newsletter. *I used
to submit irregular technical articles and obnoxious opinionated radio
politix articles. *However, one article that I spend considerable time
writing was butchered beyond recognition. *When I asked for an
explanation, I got nothing. *So, no more articles from me.

On the other hand - What neat inventions can we come up with to share with
the World, so it can be exploited and give reason to take more of our
spectrum?

It probably shouldn't be an invention. *More likely, an unusual or
interesting application of some existing technology. *Your ATV camera
for disaster services is a good example. *Direction finding is still a
common problem (i.e. stuck public safety transmitters). *Perhaps
demonstrating how some of the dumb|great ideas originating out FCC can
be made to work (i.e. white space, ultra narrow band FM, on the fly
TDMA, etc). *I could think of lots of useful things to build, design,
buy, or analyze.

Interesting to note how public safety volunteers showed Los
Angeles Sheriff how neat ATV was and they turned around and petitioned the
FCC for those frequencies.

We had some floods a few years ago. *The levee broke along the Pajaro
river. *One of our members has a helicopter and volunteered to fly an
ATV camera over the area for the sheriff. *On screen was GPS position
in APRS format. *Everything worked and everyone was suitably
impressed. *Then, nothing. *No clue exactly why, but my guess is that
homebrew is not funded by Homeland Security.

Oh well, we will probably all be shot in head by the next regime because we
are an irritation.

Nope. *We will all be promoted to a position of responsibility, where
we will be setup to fail, thus demonstrating that technologists are no
better at running the country than politicians, crooks, bureaucrats,
and thugs.

How very weird. *I am the pretty much acknowledged top technologist in
my workplace. *Yet i cannot get promoted.

YMMV

If you exercise free speech then you divulge to all what you are and
who you are.!

Art Unwin wrote:

...
If you exercise free speech then you divulge to all what you are and
who you are.!

Hmmm, you are very correct. However, that "free speech" might just have
been some "canned crap" he picked up ...

Regards,
JS

Art Unwin wrote:

If you exercise free speech then you divulge to all what you are and
who you are.!

Please divulge full legal name, birthdate and birthplace, SSN, address,
telephone number, mothers maiden name and all bank account and credit card
numbers.

--
Jim Pennino

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