RHF wrote:
On Dec 27, 7:46 pm, John Smith wrote:
wrote:

Well, sure, but what does transmitting have to do with
anything? We are not talking about transmitting.
...

It has EVERYTHING to do with it, it is the same communication, both
ways, simply in reverse ... like I have stated before, the exact same
laws of physics governing the antenna makes it equally acceptable to
both transmitting and receiving. The same pattern seen in the signal
transmitted will be seen in the signal(s) received.

- Your argument is the equivalent to arguing that
- a car designed to go forward would not be
- acceptable when backing up ...
- simply ridiculous!
-
- Regards,
- JS

JS -think-about-it-

IF 'by-design' the Car is in-fact designed
to go "Only" Forward :
* It may 'only' have Forward Gears and
a Transmission that has NO Reverse.
* No Rear Window
* No Rear Mirror
NOT So Ridiculous ~ RHF
http://www.prweb.com/prfiles/2006/10...onmeteor72.jpg
.
Just an Example of "Single Focus" Thinking :
Optimizing Your Results For One Purpose.

Sort of what Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWL)
do when they consider how they are going to
Design, Build and Use an Antenna for the
Hobby of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWLing)

Yes as you have pointed out : There is a Greater
Boby of Knowledge and Practicum Out There
That Could Be Considered and Used -but- The
Shortwave Listener (SWL) often is 'selective' in
what they consider and use to achieve their
specific limited goals.

It Has To Do With "Level-of-Involvement" :
* Many/Most Amateur Radio Operators {Hams}
have the well earn knowledge and experience
to function 'like' an Auto Mechanic -wrt- Cars
* * Hams at their best are Advocates of the
Technology [ Practicers of The Craft ]
* Many/Most Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs)
simply enjoy a level of knowledge and experience
to function 'like' a Car Driver -wrt- Cars
* * SWLs at their best are Hobbyists Enjoyers
of the Technology [ Users of the Technology ]
TBL : Both are Need -and- Both are Different

~ RHF
.

I see you are ready to go to extraordinary lengths to justify your
statements or propose "special cases" which are only correct in extreme
circumstances of very limited parameters--this is all fine, however,
carry on without me ...

Again, it is as true as when I originally stated it, the same antenna,
its efficiency, fitness-for-purpose, pattern delivered, etc. will work
the same, both forward (transmitting), or in reverse (receiving.) I am
sure there exists the possiblily of "breaking" or "orchastrating" the
antenna physics to bring about a special case or cases ... no practical
use I have yet seen has required this.

Many hams wish to think themselves "special" because of their hobby, now
you have brought me to the realization that there is the equivalent in
the SWL'ers hobby ... to me, it just looks like one of my other hobbies,
like tropical fish, for example.

Regards,
JS

On Dec 28, 12:14*pm, John Smith wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Dec 27, 7:46 pm, John Smith wrote:
wrote:

Well, sure, but what does transmitting have to do with
anything? We are not talking about transmitting.
* ...

It has EVERYTHING to do with it, it is the same communication, both
ways, simply in reverse ... like I have stated before, the exact same
laws of physics governing the antenna makes it equally acceptable to
both transmitting and receiving. *The same pattern seen in the signal
transmitted will be seen in the signal(s) received.

- Your argument is the equivalent to arguing that
- a car designed to go forward would not be
- acceptable when backing up ...
- simply ridiculous!
-
- Regards,
- JS

JS -think-about-it-

IF 'by-design' the Car is in-fact designed
to go "Only" Forward :
* It may 'only' have Forward Gears and
a Transmission that has NO Reverse.
* No Rear Window
* No Rear Mirror
NOT So Ridiculous ~ RHF
http://www.prweb.com/prfiles/2006/10...onmeteor72.jpg
*.
Just an Example of "Single Focus" Thinking :
Optimizing Your Results For One Purpose.

Sort of what Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWL)
do when they consider how they are going to
Design, Build and Use an Antenna for the
Hobby of Shortwave Radio Listening *(SWLing)

Yes as you have pointed out : There is a Greater
Boby of Knowledge and Practicum Out There
That Could Be Considered and Used -but- The
Shortwave Listener (SWL) often is 'selective' in
what they consider and use to achieve their
specific limited goals.

It Has To Do With "Level-of-Involvement" :
* Many/Most Amateur Radio Operators {Hams}
have the well earn knowledge and experience
to function 'like' an Auto Mechanic -wrt- Cars
* * Hams at their best are Advocates of the
Technology [ Practicers of The Craft ]
* Many/Most Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs)
simply enjoy a level of knowledge and experience
to function 'like' a Car Driver -wrt- Cars
* * SWLs at their best are Hobbyists Enjoyers
of the Technology [ Users of the Technology ]
TBL : Both are Need -and- Both are Different

~ RHF
*.

I see you are ready to go to extraordinary lengths to justify your
statements or propose "special cases" which are only correct in extreme
circumstances of very limited parameters--this is all fine, however,
carry on without me ...

Again, it is as true as when I originally stated it, the same antenna,
its efficiency, fitness-for-purpose, pattern delivered, etc. will work
the same, both forward (transmitting), or in reverse (receiving.) *I am
sure there exists the possiblily of "breaking" or "orchastrating" the
antenna physics to bring about a special case or cases ... no practical
use I have yet seen has required this.

Many hams wish to think themselves "special" because of their hobby, now
you have brought me to the realization that there is the equivalent in
the SWL'ers hobby ... to me, it just looks like one of my other hobbies,
like tropical fish, for example.

Regards,
JS

JS - You started using 'Car' Analogy; and
I followed through with 'Car' Analogy ~ RHF

To many/most Hobbyists there 'hobbies are simply
"Hobbies" : Some thing that they do in their spare
time to enjoy and pass the time. Most Shortwave
Radio Listeners (SWL) fit into this Category of
Hobbyists.

For some/many Hobbyists there 'hobby' is their true
"Avocation" in-fact for some Their HOBBY is Their
Life : Some thing that They Do All The Time : They
Live and Breath Their Hobby : Many Amateur Radio
Operators {Hams} fit into this Category of HOBBYISTS.
http://www.answers.com/Avocation

This is Why I refer to Amateur Radio as "The Craft" :
The Mastery* of the Body of Knowledge and Practices
related to the Science and Art of Radio Operating.
* All Praise Be To Them That Do.
-but- that is not me : for i remain simply a plain old
shortwave radio listener : who keeps his swling
"k-i-s-a-p" = keep/ing it simply and practical

If some one asks "Where To Buy" :
I tell them 'where to buy'.

If some one asks "How To" {Build It} :
I tell them 'how to' {build it}
They Did Not Ask for "The Theory Behind It"
-and- i don't give them 'the theory behind it'

If some asks "What Do You "Recommend" :
I 'recommend' a something or two and usually
provide a few links as pointers to get them going.

hey it is just my opinion and nothing more - kisap ~ RHF
-ps- JS Yes You Are Right "I Am Extremely Special" ;-}

RHF wrote:

[stuff]

RHF, I have no bone to pick with you, don't fall victim to trolls here
which just wish to "stir up chit", to mask their ignorance ...

I had a chit load of ignorance (still do in many areas, including this
one!), you don't know until you do ... we are all here on differing
levels, we can all get along. When Roy, Cecil and others make
statements, I LISTEN, may not understand it, but I listen! :-)

I understand; trust me, you have done nothing to either make me like
you, or not ... that may or may not come later.

Now, this discussion continues ...

Warm regards,
JS

RHF wrote:


This is Why I refer to Amateur Radio as "The Craft" :
The Mastery* of the Body of Knowledge and Practices
related to the Science and Art of Radio Operating.
* All Praise Be To Them That Do.
-but- that is not me : for i remain simply a plain old
shortwave radio listener : who keeps his swling
"k-i-s-a-p" = keep/ing it simply and practical

I enjoy sending intelligence from point A to point B without wires. I
enjoy making spikes (not Xmas trees) on my FSH-313. My work involves
UHF FM transmitters of between 10 mW and 250 mW. These need to go
300-500 feet (flawlessly). This is very similar to my hobby (what I
enjoy). I can't believe they pay me to do this.

On Dec 29, 5:50*am, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:

This is Why I refer to Amateur Radio as "The Craft" :
The Mastery* of the Body of Knowledge and Practices
related to the Science and Art of Radio Operating.
* All Praise Be To Them That Do.
-but- that is not me : for i remain simply a plain old
shortwave radio listener : who keeps his swling
"k-i-s-a-p" = keep/ing it simply and practical

- I enjoy sending intelligence from point A to point B without wires.
*I
- enjoy making spikes (not Xmas trees) on my FSH-313. *My work
involves
- UHF FM transmitters of between 10 mW and 250 mW. These need to go
- 300-500 feet (flawlessly).
-*This is very similar to my hobby (what I enjoy).
-*I can't believe they pay me to do this.

Dave - You Are One of The Lucky Ones. - enjoy ~ RHF

RHF wrote:
On Dec 29, 5:50 am, Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:

This is Why I refer to Amateur Radio as "The Craft" :
The Mastery* of the Body of Knowledge and Practices
related to the Science and Art of Radio Operating.
* All Praise Be To Them That Do.
-but- that is not me : for i remain simply a plain old
shortwave radio listener : who keeps his swling
"k-i-s-a-p" = keep/ing it simply and practical
- I enjoy sending intelligence from point A to point B without wires.
I
- enjoy making spikes (not Xmas trees) on my FSH-313. My work
involves
- UHF FM transmitters of between 10 mW and 250 mW. These need to go
- 300-500 feet (flawlessly).
- This is very similar to my hobby (what I enjoy).
- I can't believe they pay me to do this.

Dave - You Are One of The Lucky Ones. - enjoy ~ RHF
.

I do. Thanks.