Jimmy wrote:
"W5DXP" wrote:
I control the switches from my shack. They are mounted on a piece of
plexiglas sitting vertical in a window. It takes less time to throw
the switches than to tune an antenna tuner.

Really, some how or other I got the impression you had to go outside to
change bands.

The window-line loops are outside but the switches are inside. I've
got a chart on the wall that makes changing bands a snap from the
operating position.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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(Mark Keith) wrote in message . com...
(Art Unwin KB9MZ) wrote in message om...
Seems like a lot of hams with limited resources are still compelled
to operate on many bands with just a long wire and a tuner.
The wire is inexpensive but the tuners are not. Thus my present
project.
I was given a Palomar enginnering balun with 5 female connenection
which by selection can match a antenna in steps from 5 ohms to over
450 ohms
in a series of steps. I am presently rigging it up so that all
steps can be switched thru remotely by a single motor. The switching
arrangement


I'd rather wind a coil, "oatmeal tube carton"? and find a good
variable cap, and make a simple L network to feed a random wire. I'd
rather not use an apple to do a job that an orange should rightfully
have. :/ MK

Mark,
What sort of range of impedance matching would this provide?
How would you switch bands and what voltage/capacitor range
would be required?
I suspect you would have to have several relays to pick up various
points on the oatmeal inductor as well as a rotation method
for the capacitor

Seems like you have something specific in mind that you would put in a box
for safety reasons. Are the specifics shown somewhere for people to copy?
Art

In a time long, long ago, there were no commercial antenna tuners that
I can recall. The first commercial tuner I remember was the Johnson
Viking. Everyone I knew made their own. You just went to the surplus
store, and got a coil and capacitor that looked about right, and tried
it. No one owned any equipment to measure them anyway. We never used
relays. Maybe a switch, or just change the coil. The ARRL handbook
and Antenna Handbooks still have diagrams for antenna tuners. Also
the Hints and Kinks manuals, among many others.

Dick - W6CCD

On 4 Aug 2003 12:51:51 -0700, (Art Unwin KB9MZ)
wrote:


Mark,
What sort of range of impedance matching would this provide?
How would you switch bands and what voltage/capacitor range
would be required?
I suspect you would have to have several relays to pick up various
points on the oatmeal inductor as well as a rotation method
for the capacitor

Seems like you have something specific in mind that you would put in a box
for safety reasons. Are the specifics shown somewhere for people to copy?
Art

Dick, A REAL LONG time ago when I needed my first tuner I bought a
military surplus ARC-5 transmitter for $5 USD and removed the roller
inductor and final plate tuning capacitor. [Actually, I bought 3 ARC-5s:
one for 80, one for 40 both converted to XTAL control, and one for the
tuner and spare 1625s. Nice NOVICE CW rigs.]

Made a real nice L-tuner at 125 watts continuous duty!!

Hmmm .... where are those old ARC-5s when someone needs them??

Deacon Dave, W1MCE

Dick wrote:

In a time long, long ago, there were no commercial antenna tuners that
I can recall. The first commercial tuner I remember was the Johnson
Viking. Everyone I knew made their own. You just went to the surplus
store, and got a coil and capacitor that looked about right, and tried
it. No one owned any equipment to measure them anyway. We never used
relays. Maybe a switch, or just change the coil. The ARRL handbook
and Antenna Handbooks still have diagrams for antenna tuners. Also
the Hints and Kinks manuals, among many others.

Dick - W6CCD

On 4 Aug 2003 12:51:51 -0700, (Art Unwin KB9MZ)
wrote:



Mark,
What sort of range of impedance matching would this provide?
How would you switch bands and what voltage/capacitor range
would be required?
I suspect you would have to have several relays to pick up various
points on the oatmeal inductor as well as a rotation method
for the capacitor

Seems like you have something specific in mind that you would put in a box
for safety reasons. Are the specifics shown somewhere for people to copy?
Art

Did the same thing!! Even used the chasis! Sawed it off, moved the front
cover/ cap, and rotary inductor into the area of the osc/ magic eye tuneing
tube area-- makes nice package, and considering these tuned from around 160
meters thru 20 (or thereabouts) in different versions, and loaded a aprox 20
foot piece of wire--- make very versatile tuners . also wonder where all
of the bazillions of these dissapeared to! Jim


Dave wrote:

Dick, A REAL LONG time ago when I needed my first tuner I bought a
military surplus ARC-5 transmitter for $5 USD and removed the roller
inductor and final plate tuning capacitor. [Actually, I bought 3 ARC-5s:
one for 80, one for 40 both converted to XTAL control, and one for the
tuner and spare 1625s. Nice NOVICE CW rigs.]

Made a real nice L-tuner at 125 watts continuous duty!!

Hmmm .... where are those old ARC-5s when someone needs them??

Deacon Dave, W1MCE

Dick wrote:

In a time long, long ago, there were no commercial antenna tuners that
I can recall. The first commercial tuner I remember was the Johnson
Viking. Everyone I knew made their own. You just went to the surplus
store, and got a coil and capacitor that looked about right, and tried
it. No one owned any equipment to measure them anyway. We never used
relays. Maybe a switch, or just change the coil. The ARRL handbook
and Antenna Handbooks still have diagrams for antenna tuners. Also
the Hints and Kinks manuals, among many others.

Dick - W6CCD

On 4 Aug 2003 12:51:51 -0700, (Art Unwin KB9MZ)
wrote:



Mark,
What sort of range of impedance matching would this provide?
How would you switch bands and what voltage/capacitor range
would be required?
I suspect you would have to have several relays to pick up various
points on the oatmeal inductor as well as a rotation method
for the capacitor

Seems like you have something specific in mind that you would put in a
box
for safety reasons. Are the specifics shown somewhere for people to
copy?
Art

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:15:32 -0700, wrote:

Well, depends on HOW CLOSE to my flesh I held it! (according to the
inverse -square law, temperature decreases at a rate of 1/4 , for every 1/2
of an increment it is removed from you)!
Jim NN7K

Richard wrote:
This 0.1dB in the wrong hands is clearly an example of extravagant
dismissal or myopic attention. And speaking of hands, how long would
you consider it trivial if you had to hold onto the sucker for 20
seconds?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC



Hi Jim,

How close is anything to your flesh when you are holding it? Are you
still holding it, if it were 2 times further away?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Jim, NN7K wrote:
"also wonder where all those bazillions of these disappeared to!"

I think all the offshore counterfeiters of ARC-5 and 274-N equipment
switched to modern equipment production when demand dwindled for surplus
radios. Too bad!

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Well, Richard, tho in jest, serves purpose, that even with 30 watts lost on
surface of a balun , (or any other surface, for thatr matter), that by
doubleing the size of the SURFACE, that it would take something like 4 TIMES
as much heat to destroy it. For the same reason that a transistor, in the
size of a micron will vaporize with a slight static discharge , doesn't
necessarily mean that a POWER transistor will even feel a hickup, if it
takes you 30 minutes with a 100 watt soldering iron trying to get solder on
the leads! For the same reason , have 50 ohm coaxial resistor that fits in
a reducer for rg-174, to a SO-239, that would probably crack, with the heat,
and meantime also have a resistor, 1/3 the size, but made to mount on a heat
sink, that will dissipate 100 watts all day! (also made as a 50 ohm load--
same devices, but different uses-- Jim



Hi Jim,

How close is anything to your flesh when you are holding it? Are you
still holding it, if it were 2 times further away?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 15:48:01 -0700, wrote:

Well, Richard, tho in jest, serves purpose, that even with 30 watts lost on
surface of a balun , (or any other surface, for thatr matter), that by
doubleing the size of the SURFACE, that it would take something like 4 TIMES
as much heat to destroy it.

Hi Jim,

No, this is incorrect. When discussing power dissipation, it follows
a linear relationship to surface area - not square law (you are mixing
radius and surface area arguments). Even letting this pass, power
dissipation does not even conform to doubling with doubling of surface
area. This departure from expectation arises in the increased
distance the heat has to travel to find the surface. This is usually
found in having too many fins in an effort to maximize that same
surface area (and leads to an increase in Thermal Resistance).
Further, more fins also diminish heat transfer through convection
(again increasing Thermal Resistance). 4 or 5 fins is usually
optimal.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

I read some of the return messages and I noticed that the message initially
openned by saying that many hams still use a long wire and tuner. He
comments to say that the long wire is cheap but the tuner is not.
That kinda hit a cord with me because of my antenna experiences. I have
been an amateur since 1964, thats not a brag just a comment. Besides using
a random wire antenna, I have tried multi-band dipoles, quads, beams, folded
dipoles and others. However, I still keep coming back to my old reliable
random wire, about 60ish feet and an L network (the coil connecting to the
transmitter and the capacitor connecting between the ground and the common
connection of the coil and antenna). Though a very simple circuit, it works
very well. Recently I put up a 30ish foot random wire and found that it
didn't work on 80, using the L network. After some thought, I broke the
random wire and inserted a coil. I now gives me a good swr on 80 meters.
I just wanted to defend cheap, but highly functional, antenna couplers and
cheap but useful random wires.
Larry ve3fxq
Sorry if I have come accross a little rough sounding.


"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
Seems like a lot of hams with limited resources are still compelled
to operate on many bands with just a long wire and a tuner.
The wire is inexpensive but the tuners are not. Thus my present
project.
I was given a Palomar enginnering balun with 5 female connenection
which by selection can match a antenna in steps from 5 ohms to over
450 ohms
in a series of steps. I am presently rigging it up so that all
steps can be switched thru remotely by a single motor. The switching
arrangement
is the main challenge since inexpensive means simple.
Now I have not measured losses of the balun before hand because the
switching
challenge is what is driving me.
Anybody have any thoughts about what I should expect from this
balun other than knowing that it is not a tuner as is generally known
since
it does not have the ability to obtain the priceless 1:1 condition
that so many desire?
Regards
Art