N power connector rating?
 

hi

Just wondering a few things

I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically for
higher power DIN?



thanks

N power connector rating?
 

ml wrote:
hi

Just wondering a few things

I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically for
higher power DIN?


I don't know what you mean by 'hard line,' but 259/239 take legal power
and all I know everyone uses on RG8/ and up with legal power.

Marv

N power connector rating?
 

MTV wrote:
ml wrote:
hi

Just wondering a few things
I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically
for higher power DIN?


I don't know what you mean by 'hard line,' but 259/239 take legal power
and all I know everyone uses on RG8/ and up with legal power.

Marv

At UHF? 1500 Watts through a PL-259?

N power connector rating?
 

MTV wrote:
ml wrote:
hi

Just wondering a few things
I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically
for higher power DIN?


I don't know what you mean by 'hard line,' but 259/239 take legal power
and all I know everyone uses on RG8/ and up with legal power.

Marv

At higher frequencies and/or long runs the RG8 is a poor choice.

N power connector rating?
 

"ml" wrote in message
...
hi

Just wondering a few things

I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically for
higher power DIN?



thanks

Hi ml

Can you find this site on the Internet?

Jerry KD6JDJ

N power connector rating?
 

"Jerry" wrote in message
...

"ml" wrote in message
...
hi

Just wondering a few things

I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically for
higher power DIN?



thanks

Hi ml
Can you find this site on the Internet?
http://www.southwestmicrowave.com/mp...%20Coaxial.pdf


Jerry KD6JDJ

N power connector rating?
 

In article , ml
wrote:

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically for
higher power DIN?

ML-

I would expect hardline manufacturers to use a standard connector
intended for the power and frequency involved, but designed to fit the
end of their cable.

When hardline is chosen because of low loss rather than needing high
power, it is often used for long runs with a short flexible cable at the
end to connect to equipment. In this application, use of type N
connectors is common, with a female connector custom made to fit the
hardline.

You can get adapters for PL259/SO239, but those are lousy connectors for
RF. Their impedance is not constant from one end to the other!

Fred
K4DII

N power connector rating?
 

On Jan 10, 10:29*pm, Fred McKenzie wrote:
In article , ml
wrote:

The other * thing *i pondered * is that it seems * *the don't *make *
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, *so what do guys use *typically for *
higher *power * DIN?

ML-

I would expect hardline manufacturers to use a standard connector
intended for the power and frequency involved, but designed to fit the
end of their cable.

When hardline is chosen because of low loss rather than needing high
power, it is often used for long runs with a short flexible cable at the
end to connect to equipment. *In this application, use of type N
connectors is common, with a female connector custom made to fit the
hardline.

You can get adapters for PL259/SO239, but those are lousy connectors for
RF. *Their impedance is not constant from one end to the other!

Fred
K4DII

What I use on 7/8 hardline is a copper reducer with a barrel connecter
soldered
into one end and then I screw the combination over the hard line. Now
you have an output from the hardline that can fit most things . One
time I filled the copper reducer with dielectric before I inserted the
barrel connecter but could see no difference using max power.
Certainly a lot cheaper
than Andrews connectors and if the coax route is not ideal it is easy
and inexpensive to add flexible lengths at tight corners, such as
emerging from underground piping. Hardline gets extremely rigid and
the outer insulation is subject to cracking in the winter time which
is when I seem to have to work on things.
Art

N power connector rating?
 

I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The power handling capability of a connector is determined by both its voltage
limit and its current limit, whichever of the two is more constraining.

The N connector voltage limit is usually stated to be 500V (peak), corresponding
to an RF power of 2,500W over 50-Ohm impedance. Please note that the 500V limit
applies to the extreme environmental and conditions (e.g. temperature, humidity)
so, for a normal usage, the connector would well withstand more than 500V.

Conversely, I was never able to find a specification for the N connector current
limit. This will actually depend on the usage conditions, i.e. whether a
round.the-clock broadcast service, or an intermittent amateur service. With a
power of 2,500W, the rms current through the connector would be about 7A (at 50
Ohm), a value that, given the size of the inner pin, I would consider well
tolerable for amateur service. For a broadcast service instead it would perhaps
be safe not to exceed 1,000W at VHF, or somewhat less at UHF.

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically for
higher power DIN?

The PL259 connectors are low-cost connectors that are simply unknown in the
professional world. Main reasons a
- they do not offer a controlled impedance across the connector length
- they are not sealed, and hence offering no protection against humidity
- the ground connection is unsafe. If the connector does not remain well
tigthened under all operational conditions, one can never be sure on the
continuity of the ground path.

For hardlines there is a good choice of connectors, see
http://www.surplussales.com/connectors /HardLConnIndex.html

73

Tony I0JX

N power connector rating? [Hardline Connectors]
 

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...

"What I use on 7/8 hardline is a copper reducer with a barrel connecter
soldered into one end and then I screw the combination over the hard line.
Now you have an output from the hardline that can fit most things . One
time I filled the copper reducer with dielectric before I inserted the
barrel connecter but could see no difference using max power. Certainly a
lot cheaper than Andrews connectors and if the coax route is not ideal it
is easy and inexpensive to add flexible lengths at tight corners, such as
emerging from underground piping. Hardline gets extremely rigid and the
outer insulation is subject to cracking in the winter time which is when I
seem to have to work on things."

Just remember that the aluminum to copper galvanic couple promotes the
corrosion of the aluminum. Keep the contact areas as dry as possible if
you don't want problems. I have found that wrapping several layers of
tightly stretched vinyl electrical tape and then spraying the area with
clear Krylon® acrylic varnish does a reasonable job. But since water vapor
can diffuse through the tape, you will need to check the connection
periodically.

73, Dr. Barry L. Ornitz WA4VZQ

N power connector rating? [Hardline Connectors]
 

On Jan 11, 1:59*pm, "NoSPAM" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message

...

"What I use on 7/8 hardline is a copper reducer with a barrel connecter
soldered into one end and then I screw the combination over the hard line..
Now you have an output from the hardline that can fit most things . One
time I filled the copper reducer with dielectric before I inserted the
barrel connecter but could see no difference *using max power. *Certainly a
lot cheaper than Andrews connectors and if the coax route is not ideal it
is easy and inexpensive to add flexible lengths at tight corners, such as
emerging from underground piping. Hardline gets extremely rigid and the
outer insulation is subject to cracking in the winter time which is when I
seem to have to work on things."

Just remember that the aluminum to copper galvanic couple promotes the
corrosion of the aluminum. *Keep the contact areas as dry as possible if
you don't want problems. *I have found that wrapping several layers of
tightly stretched vinyl electrical tape and then spraying the area with
clear Krylon® acrylic varnish does a reasonable job. *But since water vapor
can diffuse through the tape, you will need to check the connection
periodically.

* * 73, *Dr. Barry L. Ornitz *WA4VZQ

All true Then copper reducer matched the copper outside of the
Andrews hardline that I use and it made its own thread as I screwed
it on. I don't believe I soldered that end like I did with the barrel
input tho I often apply a liberal spray of acrylic on those sort of
aplications to prevent the inside copper from going green not that I
have seen that sort of evidence The use of this type of connection at
points of sharp turns on the 1/2 acre
available for the tower away from the residence really works out
inexpensive compared to the Andrews connectors when connecting to
short lengths of Andrews 1/2 flexible coax.
When tussling with long heavy hardline in the winter it invariably
crackes or splits the plastic outer covering exposing the corregated
copper sheathing, so if it has to be moved or replaced it is better if
it is without bends of any sort, I have a long stretch in an
underground pipe which is easily removed as it is without kinks.As
far as the tape goes I find that the 3M professional roles become
subject to perishing so I don't use it any more tho I have plenty of
rolls on hand
Regards
Art

N power connector rating?
 

Without actually researching it I suspect the power handling capacity
will be similar to the 1/2" line itself. When a N plug mates with a N
socket it presents the same Z as the line with pretty well the same
diameters. ie the small pin is not carrying the whole load. The RF
losses and subsequent heating will be a function of skin effect of
course. How well the pin is soldered will probably also make a small
difference. Arcover will be an interesting discussion though as there is
an air dielectric where the pieces join..

I guess you could work it out from known resistance of metals, allowing
for skin effect and what will happen first, arcing or melting - all at
50 ohms and a bit of ohms law. Lets face it though you can go and look
at manufacturers websites for this kind of info.

Hardline of larger diameters than an N connector use DIN connectors or
anything else that is "larger". If you are really wanting to know go and
have a look at something like the andrew website for data. You can of
course also reduce to N size using a suitable fitting.

Cheers Bob VK2YQA

ml wrote:
hi

Just wondering a few things

N power connector rating? [Hardline Connectors]
 

NoSPAM wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...

"What I use on 7/8 hardline is a copper reducer with a barrel connecter
soldered into one end and then I screw the combination over the hard
line. Now you have an output from the hardline that can fit most things
. One time I filled the copper reducer with dielectric before I inserted
the barrel connecter but could see no difference using max power.
Certainly a lot cheaper than Andrews connectors and if the coax route is
not ideal it is easy and inexpensive to add flexible lengths at tight
corners, such as emerging from underground piping. Hardline gets
extremely rigid and the outer insulation is subject to cracking in the
winter time which is when I seem to have to work on things."

Just remember that the aluminum to copper galvanic couple promotes the
corrosion of the aluminum. Keep the contact areas as dry as possible if
you don't want problems. I have found that wrapping several layers of
tightly stretched vinyl electrical tape and then spraying the area with
clear Krylon® acrylic varnish does a reasonable job. But since water
vapor can diffuse through the tape, you will need to check the
connection periodically.

73, Dr. Barry L. Ornitz WA4VZQ

Use an elbow to get tight 90s.

http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/c...n/galvanic.htm

N power connector rating?
 

Bob Bob wrote:
Without actually researching it I suspect the power handling capacity
will be similar to the 1/2" line itself. When a N plug mates with a N
socket it presents the same Z as the line with pretty well the same
diameters. ie the small pin is not carrying the whole load.

The little pin is only a mating guide for a much larger center conductor.

I like 7/8" "Heliax". EIA connectors.

N power connector rating? [Hardline Connectors]
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
NoSPAM wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...

"What I use on 7/8 hardline is a copper reducer with a barrel connecter
soldered into one end and then I screw the combination over the hard
line. Now you have an output from the hardline that can fit most things
. One time I filled the copper reducer with dielectric before I inserted
the barrel connecter but could see no difference using max power.
Certainly a lot cheaper than Andrews connectors and if the coax route is
not ideal it is easy and inexpensive to add flexible lengths at tight
corners, such as emerging from underground piping. Hardline gets
extremely rigid and the outer insulation is subject to cracking in the
winter time which is when I seem to have to work on things."

Just to clarify things, the above part is from Art. The following is mine.

Just remember that the aluminum to copper galvanic couple promotes the
corrosion of the aluminum. Keep the contact areas as dry as possible if
you don't want problems. I have found that wrapping several layers of
tightly stretched vinyl electrical tape and then spraying the area with
clear Krylon® acrylic varnish does a reasonable job. But since water
vapor can diffuse through the tape, you will need to check the
connection periodically.

73, Dr. Barry L. Ornitz WA4VZQ

Use an elbow to get tight 90s.

http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/c...n/galvanic.htm

This is a good list because it covers many grades of aluminum and stainless
steel (but unfortunately not the 308 stainless alloy often used in wire and
nuts, bolts, and washers found in hardware stores). I wish it listed the
actual voltages referenced to a standard electrode however. Galvanic
couples of less than a tenth of a volt corrode very slowly and are often
acceptable depending on the application. I have found the following
article useful.
http://www.ocean.udel.edu/seagrant/p...corrosion.html

Also I would like to add that the Krylon sprayed over the vinyl tape is
very important. Being an acrylic, clear Krylon protects the vinyl from
ultraviolet damage.

73, Barry WA4VZQ

N power connector rating? [Hardline Connectors]
 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:57:52 -0500, "NoSPAM"
wrote:

Also I would like to add that the Krylon sprayed over the vinyl tape is
very important. Being an acrylic, clear Krylon protects the vinyl from
ultraviolet damage.
73, Barry WA4VZQ

I've been waterproofing RF connectors using 0.5" wide PTFE tape to
embalm the connector. The PTFE will eventually cold flow, forming a
water tight seal. The PTFE also prevents capillary action from
sucking water into the connector through the gaps, such as along the
outer knurling in UHF connectors. On top of that, goes a layer of 3M
Scotch 33+ electrical tape, which is claimed to be UV resistant. The
PTFE tape does the waterproofing. The outer PVC tape just holds
everything in place.

I've done some crude life tests on my roof at 2 year and 5 year
intervals. I found that when unwrapped, the connectors are a shiny
as they were when new.

However, I didn't think that PVC tape was porous and suffers from UV
embrittlement. After about 5 years, the tape does tend to be somewhat
bittle. I'll try some Krylon and see what it does. I'm a bit
concerned about adhesion to the shiny PVC tape and what will happen if
the joint is flexed. I dunno about spraying Krylon when I'm on top of
a tower. I'll let you know in about 5 years.

The no-fun part of semi-rigid coax and Heliax is connector sticker
shock. Connectors are expensive. I've been finding used connectors,
but that creates the problem of finding a replacement crush
(compression) ring. Some vendors supply them seperately, others
don't. I suspect the ones that don't, recognize that non-availability
of these parts creates a market for new connectors. I've had fair
luck using brass plumbing crush rings as a replacement crush ring. Buy
oversized and cut to size with a Dremel cutoff tool or blow saw. Brass
is really NOT a good idea for aluminum jacketed semi-rigid CATV coax,
but it should survive if kept dry.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

N power connector rating?
 

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically for
higher power DIN?

Good to Gigs at 5kw. I recall a test of Pl259/SO239 connection vs. N found
the PL259/SO239 to fail from overheating due to the internal mismatch with
as little as 500 watts at UHF frequencies.

I don't recall the Maximum at HF, but High SWR is a consideration. Best to
use open wire feeders in that case.

N is a 50 ohm connector, but the PL259/2O239 is a stepped transistion and
isn't even specified for impedance.

N power connector rating? [Hardline Connectors]
 

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:57:52 -0500, "NoSPAM"
wrote:

Also I would like to add that the Krylon sprayed over the vinyl tape is
very important. Being an acrylic, clear Krylon protects the vinyl from
ultraviolet damage.
73, Barry WA4VZQ

I've been waterproofing RF connectors using 0.5" wide PTFE tape to
embalm the connector. The PTFE will eventually cold flow, forming a
water tight seal. The PTFE also prevents capillary action from
sucking water into the connector through the gaps, such as along the
outer knurling in UHF connectors. On top of that, goes a layer of 3M
Scotch 33+ electrical tape, which is claimed to be UV resistant. The
PTFE tape does the waterproofing. The outer PVC tape just holds
everything in place.

I've done some crude life tests on my roof at 2 year and 5 year
intervals. I found that when unwrapped, the connectors are a shiny
as they were when new.

However, I didn't think that PVC tape was porous and suffers from UV
embrittlement. After about 5 years, the tape does tend to be somewhat
bittle. I'll try some Krylon and see what it does. I'm a bit
concerned about adhesion to the shiny PVC tape and what will happen if
the joint is flexed. I dunno about spraying Krylon when I'm on top of
a tower. I'll let you know in about 5 years.

The issue is a little more complicated than simple UV resistance and
porosity. To begin with, pure PVC has a very poor UV resistance. But more
importantly, it is brittle and it needs a plasticizer to make it flexible.
The most common plasticizer is DOP [dioctal phthalate, or more correctly
2-ethylhexyl phthalate]. but this can leach out of the PVC leaving it stiff
and more brittle.. To achieve better low temperature flexibility, DOA
{2-ethylhexyl adipate} is often used. Vinyl tape has to be very flexible
and stretchy even at low temperatures, so high levels of plasticizers are
needed. DOA is usually used, either alone or in combination with DOP. DOA
tends to leach out faster than DOP. It also has poorer UV resistance than
DOP which is poor to start with. There are far better performing
plasticizers than either of these (made by reacting adipic or phthalic acid
with polyols), but while they offer superior UV resistance and leach out
much more slowly, they are rather expensive. Loading the PVC with carbon
black, an excellent absorber of ultraviolet (and visible) light, helps too,
but the amount of carbon black that can be used on an electrical tape is
limited by the need for good dielectric strength. Spraying the tape with
Krylon® acrylic paints provides both UV resistance and a slowing of the
loss of plasticizer.

I would not worry about the PTFE (Teflont®) tape. While very resistant to
liquid water, water vapor can pass through the tape easily and condense on
cold metal parts of the connector. PTFE tape is porous, but the surface
tension of water prevents it from passing through the pores. {Water vapor,
too, is a smaller molecule than oxygen or nitrogen.} Several layers of
electrical tape, wound in opposite directions, and sprayed with Krylon
survived at least 15 years in one of my outdoor applications, and when
removed, the coaxial connectors were shiny too.

In case anyone is wondering about my expertise here, I worked in the
research Laboratories of Eastman Chemical Company, who made a number of
plasticizers, and W. L. Gore & Associates, who started by making PTFE tape.
The breathability properties of Gore-Tex while still shedding water are a
result of controlled pore sizes in PTFE.

73, Dr. Barry L. Ornitz WA4VZQ

N power connector rating?
 

JB wrote:
How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically for
higher power DIN?

Good to Gigs at 5kw. I recall a test of Pl259/SO239 connection vs. N found
the PL259/SO239 to fail from overheating due to the internal mismatch with
as little as 500 watts at UHF frequencies.

I don't recall the Maximum at HF, but High SWR is a consideration. Best to
use open wire feeders in that case.

N is a 50 ohm connector, but the PL259/2O239 is a stepped transistion and
isn't even specified for impedance.



JB sez "N is a 50 ohm connector, but the PL259/2O239 is a stepped
transistion and isn't even specified for impedance."

Actually, think you will find that N connectors, as well as BNC
connectors come in Several Impedences! (Not one size fits all).

Had surplus ones with center pins fit 90 ohm, and 75 ohm (no go on 50
ohm coax)! Be sure to check connector specs! Jim NN7K

N power connector rating? [Hardline Connectors]
 

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:34:48 -0500, "NoSPAM"
wrote:

The breathability properties of Gore-Tex while still shedding water are a
result of controlled pore sizes in PTFE.

Hi Barry,

How come my Gore-tex jacket (20 years old?) leaks like a sieve?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

N power connector rating? [Gore-Tex]
 

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:34:48 -0500, "NoSPAM"
wrote:

The breathability properties of Gore-Tex while still shedding water are a
result of controlled pore sizes in PTFE.

Hi Barry,

How come my Gore-tex jacket (20 years old?) leaks like a sieve?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Most likely it leaks at the seams. Gore sells a kit containing seam tape
patches with the proper adhesive to recover those seams. The loss of
"breathability" is due to the fact that the PTFE can adsorb skin oils,
grease, etc. This requires cleaning to remove the oils. You might want to
visit http://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satel...nt/care-center for more
information. The outer fabric outer layer may occasionally need an
application of DWR (durable water repellent). It is also discussed at the
same web page.

73, Barry WA4VZQ

N power connector rating?
 

JB sez "N is a 50 ohm connector, but the PL259/2O239 is a stepped
transistion and isn't even specified for impedance."

Actually, think you will find that N connectors, as well as BNC
connectors come in Several Impedences! (Not one size fits all).

Had surplus ones with center pins fit 90 ohm, and 75 ohm (no go on 50
ohm coax)! Be sure to check connector specs! Jim NN7K

Excellent point! You usually need to get specific connectors for specific
cable. Trying to get what you ordered is often the reason for surplus (or
failure). There are so many ways to goof up a communication system these
days. Come to think of it, there is far more to be considered for people to
be able to see eye to eye.

For instance, there has always been a conflict over how much supervision
should be required for the "man in the field".

N power connector rating?
 

In article ,
"JB" wrote:

JB sez "N is a 50 ohm connector, but the PL259/2O239 is a stepped
transistion and isn't even specified for impedance."

Actually, think you will find that N connectors, as well as BNC
connectors come in Several Impedences! (Not one size fits all).

Had surplus ones with center pins fit 90 ohm, and 75 ohm (no go on 50
ohm coax)! Be sure to check connector specs! Jim NN7K

Excellent point! You usually need to get specific connectors for specific
cable. Trying to get what you ordered is often the reason for surplus (or
failure). There are so many ways to goof up a communication system these
days. Come to think of it, there is far more to be considered for people to
be able to see eye to eye.

For instance, there has always been a conflict over how much supervision
should be required for the "man in the field".

thats interesting, thanks to everyone that responded to the
oirginal ontopic post

Glad to know I wasn't the only one having issues finding certain
values for those connectors .

i started to read pl259 folklore and heard that it was desiged
specifically to handle the higher power(HF) and while a quick look
at it does reveil a thicker connector, i sorta guess that all
it's other issues might not make it the best choise for even hf
and wanted to bounce it off you guys so thanks

my second choice was going to be continuing use of N connectors
but wanted to make sure it wasn't going to have a problem say at
full legal power on HF

I have a few DIN connectors but they are rather expensive even
surplus and ultimately requring me to use a jumper since non of
my gear actually has that


all my coax runs use N except 1 run in which i have times
microwave lmr 400 with their captivated Pl259 I have swept the coax
at time of install and every now and then afterwards it still shows
what it should and same as day 1 but it was for an experiment
not sure i'd want to use the pl259's long term

again thanks for all

N power connector rating?
 

In article ,
"Jerry" wrote:

"Jerry" wrote in message
...

"ml" wrote in message
...
hi

Just wondering a few things

I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically for
higher power DIN?



thanks

Hi ml
Can you find this site on the Internet?
http://www.southwestmicrowave.com/mp...0for%20Coaxial
.pdf


Jerry KD6JDJ


Yes thanks for the site it's interesting and an ontopic post
but mostly not really connectors i'd use but the theories there
are relavant.

seems many have hi-jacked the thread with mostly off topic posts
regarding how to "water proof or attaching connectors etc"

N power connector rating?
 

"ml" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Jerry" wrote:

"Jerry" wrote in message
...

"ml" wrote in message
...
hi

Just wondering a few things

I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

The other thing i pondered is that it seems the don't make
Pl259/so239 connectors for hardline, so what do guys use typically
for
higher power DIN?



thanks

Hi ml
Can you find this site on the Internet?
http://www.southwestmicrowave.com/mp...0for%20Coaxial
.pdf


Jerry KD6JDJ


Yes thanks for the site it's interesting and an ontopic post
but mostly not really connectors i'd use but the theories there
are relavant.

seems many have hi-jacked the thread with mostly off topic posts
regarding how to "water proof or attaching connectors etc"

Hi ML

I wonder if you saw the page 116 graph of
http://www.southwestmicrowave.com/mp...0for%20Coaxial
that shows the power handling capability of the N connector.

Jerry KD6JDJ

N power connector rating?
 

Jerry wrote:

Hi ML

I wonder if you saw the page 116 graph of
http://www.southwestmicrowave.com/mp...0for%20Coaxial
that shows the power handling capability of the N connector.

Jerry KD6JDJ


"Welcome to Southwest Microwave


You have requested a page that is either obsolete or has moved.

Click here for our complete Product Catalog listing."

I think the connector can handle more power than the cable.

N power connector rating?
 

One thing further- IF you check, you will see that the Physical
Size of a BNC (minus the connector locking outer ring) is the
same size as the N fitting! The "N" male will plug into a "BNC"
female,the BNC without its locking ring will plug into an "N"female!
There are temporary connectors to take advantage of this factor,
for testing (not permanent) connectors ! As info, Jim NN7K

ml wrote:
In article ,
"Jerry" wrote:

"Jerry" wrote in message
...
"ml" wrote in message
...
hi

Just wondering a few things

I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

N power connector rating?
 

Jim-NN7K wrote:
One thing further- IF you check, you will see that the Physical
Size of a BNC (minus the connector locking outer ring) is the
same size as the N fitting! The "N" male will plug into a "BNC"
female,the BNC without its locking ring will plug into an "N"female!
There are temporary connectors to take advantage of this factor,
for testing (not permanent) connectors ! As info, Jim NN7K

I knew that. I have a home-made pair that I use from time-to-time in
the lab.

N power connector rating?
 

Hi Dave

I must have ,made a mistake when copying that link. This one shows me
that a N connector will handle over a KW average at frequencies "ML" is
considering.
http://www.southwestmicrowave.com/mp...%20Coaxial.pdf

Jerry KD6JDJ



"Dave" wrote in message
...
Jerry wrote:

Hi ML

I wonder if you saw the page 116 graph of
http://www.southwestmicrowave.com/mp...0for%20Coaxial
that shows the power handling capability of the N connector.

Jerry KD6JDJ
"Welcome to Southwest Microwave


You have requested a page that is either obsolete or has moved.

Click here for our complete Product Catalog listing."

I think the connector can handle more power than the cable.

N power connector rating?
 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:16:45 GMT, "Jerry"
wrote:

Hi Dave

I must have ,made a mistake when copying that link. This one shows me
that a N connector will handle over a KW average at frequencies "ML" is
considering.
http://www.southwestmicrowave.com/mp...%20Coaxial.pdf

Jerry KD6JDJ

Hi Jerry,

Thanx for the link. Good material and answers a lot questions
typically put to the group on this topic.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

N power connector rating?
 

"ml" wrote in message
...
hi

Just wondering a few things

I see the center pin on a typical N connector is pretty small

How much power could it hold at HF and also uhf/vhf
frequencies? Assuming a modern day high quality N connector??

snip

The Bird 43 Wattmeter has Type N connectors on it. The Bird web site says,
"Accurate CW field power measurement over 450 kHz to 2.7 GHz and 100 mW to
10 KW."

That's good enough for me to say "10 KW."

N power connector rating?
 

Jerry wrote:
Hi Dave

I must have ,made a mistake when copying that link. This one shows me
that a N connector will handle over a KW average at frequencies "ML" is
considering.
http://www.southwestmicrowave.com/mp...%20Coaxial.pdf

Jerry KD6JDJ

Good for legal power to 2600 MHz. There ain't an RG8 cable made that'll
do near that. Maybe 7/8" "Heliax" style line.

http://www.rfparts.com/coax_specs.html

N power connector rating?
 

"Dave" wrote in message
m...
Jim-NN7K wrote:
One thing further- IF you check, you will see that the Physical
Size of a BNC (minus the connector locking outer ring) is the
same size as the N fitting! The "N" male will plug into a "BNC"
female,the BNC without its locking ring will plug into an "N"female!
There are temporary connectors to take advantage of this factor,
for testing (not permanent) connectors ! As info, Jim NN7K

I knew that. I have a home-made pair that I use from time-to-time in
the lab.

If you don't mind GRONKING the BNC fem on your test equipment. Very
naughty!

Once you do "N" you can't go back.

N power connector rating?
 

JB wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
m...
Jim-NN7K wrote:
One thing further- IF you check, you will see that the Physical
Size of a BNC (minus the connector locking outer ring) is the
same size as the N fitting! The "N" male will plug into a "BNC"
female,the BNC without its locking ring will plug into an "N"female!
There are temporary connectors to take advantage of this factor,
for testing (not permanent) connectors ! As info, Jim NN7K

I knew that. I have a home-made pair that I use from time-to-time in
the lab.

If you don't mind GRONKING the BNC fem on your test equipment. Very
naughty!

Once you do "N" you can't go back.


???

I busted the rings off plain old 50 Ohm BNC cables, at the far end. How
does this threaten my Rohde and Schwarz? We never use N cables. We
"permanently" adapt any N fittings to BNC. I made the cables to test a
75 MHz transmitter with reverse thread TNC fittings. How many people
keep reverse thread TNC cables around?

N power connector rating?
 

Dave wrote:
JB wrote:



???

I busted the rings off plain old 50 Ohm BNC cables, at the far end. How
does this threaten my Rohde and Schwarz? We never use N cables. We
"permanently" adapt any N fittings to BNC. I made the cables to test a
75 MHz transmitter with reverse thread TNC fittings. How many people
keep reverse thread TNC cables around?

http://nocat.net/connectors.html

N power connector rating?
 

The "N" male will plug into a "BNC"
female,the BNC without its locking ring will plug into an "N"female!

The N male pin is usually larger than the BNC fem center receptacle. This
results in a BNC female with increased loss or breakage due to fatigue.
This was known in the extended technical community of my experience as a
GRONK!

N power connector rating?
 

In message , Dave
writes
JB wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
m...
Jim-NN7K wrote:
One thing further- IF you check, you will see that the Physical
Size of a BNC (minus the connector locking outer ring) is the
same size as the N fitting! The "N" male will plug into a "BNC"
female,the BNC without its locking ring will plug into an "N"female!
There are temporary connectors to take advantage of this factor,
for testing (not permanent) connectors ! As info, Jim NN7K

I knew that. I have a home-made pair that I use from time-to-time in
the lab.
If you don't mind GRONKING the BNC fem on your test equipment. Very
naughty!
Once you do "N" you can't go back.


???

I busted the rings off plain old 50 Ohm BNC cables, at the far end. How
does this threaten my Rohde and Schwarz? We never use N cables. We
"permanently" adapt any N fittings to BNC. I made the cables to test a
75 MHz transmitter with reverse thread TNC fittings. How many people
keep reverse thread TNC cables around?

Unless I'm losing the plot, the 'innards' of 50 ohm N and BNC connectors
are compatible, and can be mated. This is NOT true for 75 ohm versions.

For N-connectors, there is a noticeable difference in the diameters of
the male pin and the female receptacle (?). The diameter of the 75 ohm
is much less than that of the 50 ohm. If you insert a 50 ohm male into a
75 ohm female, you will splay the leaves and almost certainly case
irreparable damage. However, if you insert a 75 ohm male into a 50 ohm
female, it won't make contact (unless you first cunningly insert a short
piece of wire into the female).

For BNC connectors, 50 ohm CAN mate with 75 ohm, and vice versa. This is
because the dimensions are essentially identical (although the 75 ohm
male pin is sometimes more tapered). The difference of impedance is
achieved mainly by having much less PTFE dielectric in the 75 ohm
version.

As the 50 and 75 ohm BNC male pin is the same diameter as the 50 ohm N
male pin, you must never insert either a 50 or 75 ohm BNC male into a 75
ohm N female. However, you CAN insert a 50 ohm N male into either a 50
or 75 ohm BNC female. However, if you insert a 75 ohm N male into either
a 50 or 75 ohm BNC female, it almost certainly won't make contact.
--
Ian

N power connector rating?
 

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
- snip -.

Unless I'm losing the plot, the 'innards' of 50 ohm N and BNC connectors
are compatible, and can be mated. This is NOT true for 75 ohm versions.

For N-connectors, there is a noticeable difference in the diameters of the
male pin and the female receptacle (?). The diameter of the 75 ohm is much
less than that of the 50 ohm. If you insert a 50 ohm male into a 75 ohm
female, you will splay the leaves and almost certainly case irreparable
damage. However, if you insert a 75 ohm male into a 50 ohm female, it
won't make contact (unless you first cunningly insert a short piece of
wire into the female).

For BNC connectors, 50 ohm CAN mate with 75 ohm, and vice versa. This is
because the dimensions are essentially identical (although the 75 ohm male
pin is sometimes more tapered). The difference of impedance is achieved
mainly by having much less PTFE dielectric in the 75 ohm version.

As the 50 and 75 ohm BNC male pin is the same diameter as the 50 ohm N
male pin, you must never insert either a 50 or 75 ohm BNC male into a 75
ohm N female. However, you CAN insert a 50 ohm N male into either a 50 or
75 ohm BNC female. However, if you insert a 75 ohm N male into either a 50
or 75 ohm BNC female, it almost certainly won't make contact.
--
Ian


So refreshing to see someone stating it correctly when all around there are
folk who harbour mistaken beliefs that 50 and 75 ohm BNC pins have different
mating diameters. What I find odd is that so many people who claim the
contrary appear to have unshakable belief, almost like a religion,
irrespective of what the manufacturers' engineering drawings actually show.

Chris

N power connector rating?
 

A few measurements out of the bag:

N males

UG-21B/U 74868 (used) .068"
RFI RFN-1007 .065"
CPN-1 .065"

BNC males

AMP BNC59PC .053"
Amphenol 68175 .050"
RFI RFB-1106-2 .053"

Can we see a trend yet or should I continue?

N power connector rating?
 

JB wrote:
The "N" male will plug into a "BNC"
female,the BNC without its locking ring will plug into an "N"female!

The N male pin is usually larger than the BNC fem center receptacle. This
results in a BNC female with increased loss or breakage due to fatigue.
This was known in the extended technical community of my experience as a
GRONK!


Like I said, we "permanently" adapt N to BNC inside the lab. I've never
used an N in a situation where a BNC wouldn't have worked*. I guess the
threads make the connection more permanent, but now we have the TNC for
that.

*Check that. I did need a 75 Ohm N jumper once to get from a 7/8" line
to the back of a Moseley STL receiver.