'Doc wrote:

Hope you didn't miss my smiley face. I just couldn't resist
pointing out that a RS CB whip is more efficient than the
numbers you quoted. :-)

Only if it's got one of them 'Wizz-Band, super-dupper,
all weather, triple-by-pass, monster coils' in it! Ain't
that right?

you said:
A mobile antenna is usually only around 3 - 20% efficient

I don't see any mention of a coil. :-)

But then again, any 'full sized' 1/4 wave antenna is
more efficient than the 'usual' loaded mobile antenna for
bands lower than about 15 meters. That's also 'right', is
it not?

you said:
A mobile antenna is usually only around 3 - 20% efficient

I don't see any mention of size or frequency. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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'Doc wrote:
Yep, lots of fun with the up/down/up/down thing, but that's
just the normal part of tuning almost any antenna I can think
of, off hand. For a multiband antenna, multiply all that up
and down stuff for each band (probably). And since each 'part'
of the antenna will affect the other 'parts', repeating the
whole mess is something to count on till all of them are
'right'.

OTOH, I raised my all-HF-band dipole only once and achieved
a decent match on all HF bands without an antenna tuner.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil,
But did you see my 'tongue in cheek'? Looked
sort of like a ball player three months behind
with his 'Red Man'...
'Doc

Cecil,
Miracles do happen!
'Doc

'Doc wrote:
But did you see my 'tongue in cheek'?

Nope, I didn't, Doc. "Seeing" is not one of my strong
points lately given cataracts and macular degen.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Jack,

Have you determined that the radio is actually putting out 100W? The light
bulb test should give some indication. When I first got licensed on HF I
went through a bunch of antennas at less than 20 feet with essentially 0
results. For starters, unless you are DX, nobody will talk to you on 75 or
20 m SSB unless you are 5-9. I made my first contact half way across the
country on 15 m by using a 3 el 6 meter beam at 12 feet (In the attic of a 1
story house). Try getting out during a contest, but you really want to get
the wire at least 30 feet up. I don't think you mentioned what the antenna
is, or what bands you have tried.

Tam/WB2TT
"Jack Twilley" wrote in message
...
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"Richard" == Richard Clark writes:

Jack What's the best way to find out for what bands (if any) my
Jack current antenna is best suited? Would something like the
Jack Antenna Analyzer II (http://www.amqrp.org/kits/antanal/) or the
Jack 'Tenna Dipper (http://4sqrp.com/kits/kits.htm) answer this
Jack question?

Richard These are toys when it comes to the grist of your question.
Richard No analyzer will answer what is best as that is a subjective
Richard issue. Further, an antenna has more characteristics than
Richard feed point Z which impact the nature of your enquiry far
Richard more.

That's pretty much what I figured. I tried to provide a definition
for best that was more objective than subjective.

Richard A low antenna that warms the ground will look like a charmer
Richard to the analyzer, but then so would your dummy load. Get the
Richard idea? You already anticipate this I am sure.

Exactly. This is the same antenna that I've mentioned in the past,
less than twenty feet off the ground and less than five feet from the
house (which towers over the antenna by ten feet at its highest
point).

Richard The old methods, prior to the invention of analyzers,
Richard encompassed a simple sanity/reality check with the field
Richard strength meter. Put one 100 wavelengths out and take a
Richard reading. Do the same with a buddy in town. The differences
Richard should be telling. This will reveal how much power has
Richard escaped the grip of loss.

While I don't have a field strength meter, I do have a friend with a
DC-to-daylight receiver. He was able to receive me loud and clear
over a mile away. One hundred wavelengths would be twenty-four miles
- -- if he had a real antenna, he'd be perfectly situated for that kind
of test, but all he has is the whip that came with the receiver, so
I'm not sure that's going to be a valid test.

Richard Repeat with a DX contact (you and your buddy working the same
Richard remote station).

[... rest elided ...]

Ahahahaha. Richard, I've worked a DX contact *once*. That was day
one of the antenna's life, during the California QSO Party, when I
logged a contact with a guy in Germany. I have trouble working people
several towns over, and in fact have had only one QSO since the
weekend the antenna was installed. This part of the test is a little
optimistic.

Richard 73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Thanks!

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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"Tam" == t-tammaru Tam writes:

Tam Jack, Have you determined that the radio is actually putting out
Tam 100W? The light bulb test should give some indication.

I have an MFJ Versa Tuner II which has a power meter. It's not
laboratory certified, but the needle does go all the way up to 100
when I tune up and transmit.

Tam When I first got licensed on HF I went through a bunch of
Tam antennas at less than 20 feet with essentially 0 results. For
Tam starters, unless you are DX, nobody will talk to you on 75 or 20m
Tam SSB unless you are 5-9.

This disappoints me, and I really hope it's not true.

Tam I made my first contact half way across the country on 15 m by
Tam using a 3 el 6 meter beam at 12 feet (In the attic of a 1 story
Tam house). Try getting out during a contest, but you really want to
Tam get the wire at least 30 feet up. I don't think you mentioned
Tam what the antenna is, or what bands you have tried.

I can't get the wire any higher than it is right now at this current
location. This is pretty much the best I can do, and this little
antenna already totally fills my yard and the yards of each of my
neighbors (with their permission). It's a multiband fan dipole with
three pairs of legs, cut for 40, 20, and 10.

My current goal is to acquire a noise bridge and see where the antenna
resonates, then trim the antenna as necessary until it resonates in
the right places. After that, I'll look into feedline length
modifications as necessary. Hopefully those two approaches will
resolve my current issue.

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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Jack,

Just some comments. I think you have the right kind of antenna with the fan
dipoles. You say it is lower than the house; can't you prop up at least some
of it to the height of the house, or a couple of feet more. Have you
determined that the radio puts out the same power on SSB (whistle) as when
you tune up (on CW?) ?

I made most of my early contacts during contests, by answereing calls from
people who did not have big pileups. If they hear you, they will come back
to you. I did get my SSB DXCC with a Junior beam at 28 feet.

To trim a multiple dipole like yours, you have to trim the lowest frequency
first, and work your way up. I have a 40/17/12 antenna like that, and this
is the only way I got it to convege in EZNEC.

Tam/WB2TT
"Jack Twilley" wrote in message
...
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"Tam" == t-tammaru Tam writes:

Tam Jack, Have you determined that the radio is actually putting out
Tam 100W? The light bulb test should give some indication.

I have an MFJ Versa Tuner II which has a power meter. It's not
laboratory certified, but the needle does go all the way up to 100
when I tune up and transmit.

Tam When I first got licensed on HF I went through a bunch of
Tam antennas at less than 20 feet with essentially 0 results. For
Tam starters, unless you are DX, nobody will talk to you on 75 or 20m
Tam SSB unless you are 5-9.

This disappoints me, and I really hope it's not true.

Tam I made my first contact half way across the country on 15 m by
Tam using a 3 el 6 meter beam at 12 feet (In the attic of a 1 story
Tam house). Try getting out during a contest, but you really want to
Tam get the wire at least 30 feet up. I don't think you mentioned
Tam what the antenna is, or what bands you have tried.

I can't get the wire any higher than it is right now at this current
location. This is pretty much the best I can do, and this little
antenna already totally fills my yard and the yards of each of my
neighbors (with their permission). It's a multiband fan dipole with
three pairs of legs, cut for 40, 20, and 10.

My current goal is to acquire a noise bridge and see where the antenna
resonates, then trim the antenna as necessary until it resonates in
the right places. After that, I'll look into feedline length
modifications as necessary. Hopefully those two approaches will
resolve my current issue.

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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"Tam" == t-tammaru Tam writes:

Tam Jack, Just some comments. I think you have the right kind of
Tam antenna with the fan dipoles. You say it is lower than the house;
Tam can't you prop up at least some of it to the height of the house,
Tam or a couple of feet more.

Nope, I meant what I said when I said I can't get the wire any higher
than it is right now at this current location.

Tam Have you determined that the radio puts out the same power on SSB
Tam (whistle) as when you tune up (on CW?) ?

No, but I'm not really concerned about SSB versus CW -- I'll operate
CW if that's what it takes, and it'll be incentive to finally learn.

Tam I made most of my early contacts during contests, by answereing
Tam calls from people who did not have big pileups. If they hear you,
Tam they will come back to you. I did get my SSB DXCC with a Junior
Tam beam at 28 feet.

My situation is that I can't make a scheduled contact with someone
twenty miles from my house while we're on the phone. "Can you hear me
on this frequency? Let me key up and you tell me if you can hear me."
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Worrying about how to get
lots of contacts is way way in the future -- I'm fixed on worrying
about whether my equipment is even working.

Tam To trim a multiple dipole like yours, you have to trim the lowest
Tam frequency first, and work your way up. I have a 40/17/12 antenna
Tam like that, and this is the only way I got it to convege in EZNEC.

That's the plan, once I get the noise bridge. My environment is too
complex for me to attempt to model it with EZNEC.

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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"Jack Twilley" wrote in message
...
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Tam Have you determined that the radio puts out the same power on SSB
Tam (whistle) as when you tune up (on CW?) ?

No, but I'm not really concerned about SSB versus CW -- I'll operate
CW if that's what it takes, and it'll be incentive to finally learn.

That's what I am concerened about. You may have a bad mic, or just not
modulating due to some failure. When I wasn't able to get out, I could
alwayds talk to locals. Try CW/carrier with your friend. He doesn't have to
know CW if you are on the phone and he knows your frequency. I would do it
on 10m, away from anybody else. You know you can get 20 miles on CB with 5W,
and you have 100.

Tam/WB2TT