RadioBanter

RadioBanter (https://www.radiobanter.com/)
-   Antenna (https://www.radiobanter.com/antenna/)
-   -   Hexbeam Antenna Modeling (https://www.radiobanter.com/antenna/144254-hexbeam-antenna-modeling.html)

J. B. Wood June 2nd 09 04:31 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
Hello, everyone. I'm enquiring as to whether anyone has done NEC2/NEC4
modeling on the subject antenna (including a tower mounting) and operating
on the ham bands. Do you have tabulated driving point (antenna feedpoint)
and gain data that you might share? Thanks for your time and comment.
Sincerely, and 73s from N4GGO,

John Wood (Code 5550) e-mail:
Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20375-5337

Roy Lewallen June 2nd 09 08:32 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
J. B. Wood wrote:
Hello, everyone. I'm enquiring as to whether anyone has done NEC2/NEC4
modeling on the subject antenna (including a tower mounting) and operating
on the ham bands. Do you have tabulated driving point (antenna feedpoint)
and gain data that you might share? Thanks for your time and comment.
Sincerely, and 73s from N4GGO,

John Wood (Code 5550) e-mail:
Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20375-5337


I suggest you contact the manufacturer (
http://www.hexbeam.com), if you
haven't already. They might have some information they'd share.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

J. B. Wood June 2nd 09 09:48 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
In article ,
wrote:

J. B. Wood wrote:
Hello, everyone. I'm enquiring as to whether anyone has done NEC2/NEC4
modeling on the subject antenna (including a tower mounting) and operating
on the ham bands. Do you have tabulated driving point (antenna feedpoint)
and gain data that you might share? Thanks for your time and comment.
Sincerely, and 73s from N4GGO,

John Wood (Code 5550) e-mail:


Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20375-5337


I suggest you contact the manufacturer (
http://www.hexbeam.com), if you
haven't already. They might have some information they'd share.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Thanks for responding, Roy. Some hams are apparently assembling the
antenna from their own materials rather than buying the antenna outright.
Of all the folks that I can think of that might have done a MoM analysis
of this antenna, you come to my mind first. 73s,

John Wood (Code 5550) e-mail:
Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20375-5337

[email protected] June 2nd 09 10:05 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
John,

Take a look at my web site if you haven't already found it. There are
2 pages devoted to modelling the hexbeam and there's an EZNEC file for
a five-band version you can download:

http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/hexbeam/eznec1/
http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/hexbeam/eznec2/

73,
Steve G3TXQ


tom June 3rd 09 03:53 AM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
wrote:
John,

Take a look at my web site if you haven't already found it. There are
2 pages devoted to modelling the hexbeam and there's an EZNEC file for
a five-band version you can download:

http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/hexbeam/eznec1/
http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/hexbeam/eznec2/

73,
Steve G3TXQ


Nicely done, Steve. Thanks.

tom
K0TAR

Clifford Heath June 3rd 09 04:35 AM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
J. B. Wood wrote:
Hello, everyone. I'm enquiring as to whether anyone has done NEC2/NEC4
modeling on the subject antenna (including a tower mounting) and operating
on the ham bands.


Interesting designs, I hadn't seen them before.
For a hand-held DF sniffer on 2m, might there be
compactness advantages? What would the approximate
dimensions of be of a hexbeam on 2 metres?

Clifford Heath, VK3CLF

[email protected] June 3rd 09 08:49 AM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
Clifford,

Turn radius is about 12.5" for a 2m broadband hex.

It should be possible to get very deep and narrow F/B nulls by
adjusting the Driver/Reflector end spacing at some cost to the VSWR.

Steve G3TXQ

J.B. Wood June 3rd 09 11:48 AM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
wrote:
John,

Take a look at my web site if you haven't already found it. There are
2 pages devoted to modelling the hexbeam and there's an EZNEC file for
a five-band version you can download:

http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/hexbeam/eznec1/
http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/hexbeam/eznec2/

73,
Steve G3TXQ

Now, that's what I'm talkin' about! Great job, Steve. 73's,

Clifford Heath June 4th 09 05:47 AM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
wrote:
Turn radius is about 12.5" for a 2m broadband hex.


Sorry Steve, I see a pair of W shapes, or a W driver and
4-of-6 hexagon reflector. Which measurement is 12.5" - is
this the radius (length) of the hexagon arms (and hence
also of all the peripheral segments)?

It should be possible to get very deep and narrow F/B nulls by
adjusting the Driver/Reflector end spacing at some cost to the VSWR.


If I'm reading you right, the gap between the ends is the
salient factor here. Suggestions on how big a gap to try
first? Something like 3cm?

Sorry for the newbie-ness. Been doing electronics for 30
years, but only now getting into radio and have never tuned
an antenna. Sorta understand EM fields, but don't have any
RF test gear yet, except for my very nice VK3YNG sniffer
(google it). Maybe I should borrow/buy one of the little
fox-or transmitters to tune up an antenna, but it'll be too
late for this weekend's national foxhunt champs in Mt Gambier.

Clifford Heath VK3CLF.

[email protected] June 4th 09 09:45 AM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
Clifford,

There are two styles of hexbeam: the older design which has a W-shape
Driver and a W-shape Reflector, and which I call the "classic" on my
web site; and my newer broadband design which has a W-shape Driver and
a U-shape Reflector.

I found in my lab notebook a 2m version of the broadband style; its
dimensions a half-Driver 21"; Reflector 40"; end gap 2.5". I think
I assumed wire construction using #14 bare copper. That would give a
hexagon radius of 12.5".

When I model this with EZNEC I see about 3.8dBd Forward Gain and 19dB
F/B with VSWR=1.4. The problem is that the rearward response is very
smooth and "well behaved" so probably not much use for DF.

If I increase the end gap to 5" the Forward Gain and F/B remain about
the same, but the azimuth pattern devlops deep side nulls (38dB) at
plus and minus 130 degrees which may be useful. The VSWR deteriorates
to 1.8:1.

Hopefully that may give you a starting point for experimentation. If I
get a chance I'll try some modelling experiments on the classic design
also.

73,
Steve G3TXQ


Clifford Heath June 4th 09 01:01 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
wrote:
Hopefully that may give you a starting point for experimentation.


Steve, thanks. Hopefully I'll discuss it over the weekend
with some of our foxhunt folk and perhaps try some experiments
after that. But you're right, the lobe pattern might be simply
inferior.

Clifford Heath, VK3CLF.

J.B. Wood June 4th 09 01:09 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
wrote:
Clifford,

There are two styles of hexbeam: the older design which has a W-shape
Driver and a W-shape Reflector, and which I call the "classic" on my
web site; and my newer broadband design which has a W-shape Driver and
a U-shape Reflector.

I found in my lab notebook a 2m version of the broadband style; its
dimensions a half-Driver 21"; Reflector 40"; end gap 2.5". I think
I assumed wire construction using #14 bare copper. That would give a
hexagon radius of 12.5".

When I model this with EZNEC I see about 3.8dBd Forward Gain and 19dB
F/B with VSWR=1.4. The problem is that the rearward response is very
smooth and "well behaved" so probably not much use for DF.

If I increase the end gap to 5" the Forward Gain and F/B remain about
the same, but the azimuth pattern devlops deep side nulls (38dB) at
plus and minus 130 degrees which may be useful. The VSWR deteriorates
to 1.8:1.

Hopefully that may give you a starting point for experimentation. If I
get a chance I'll try some modelling experiments on the classic design
also.

73,
Steve G3TXQ

Hello, Steve, and all. Steve, I see you also have an informative
article that is posted online at
www.antennex.com/preview/Dec507/hexbeam.pdf 73s,

[email protected] June 4th 09 01:39 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
On Jun 4, 1:09*pm, "J.B. Wood" wrote:

Hello, Steve, and all. *Steve, I see you also have an informative
article that is posted online atwww.antennex.com/preview/Dec507/hexbeam.pdf


Yes, that article described the process by which I arrived at the
broadband version.

Since then there have been a couple of write-ups in the monthly
Antenna column of RadioCommunication magazine, and RSGB published the
design in their recent book "Building successful HF antennas". You may
also have seen Leo's (K4KIO) constructional article in the March
edition of QST. All that has generated quite a lot of interest in the
antenna.

I try to avoid exagerated claims for the design - at the end of the
day it's a "compressed" Yagi and performs as such. But it does provide
useful directivity over the five bands 20m thru 10m, with a single
feedline, in a size which suits those of us that don't have a lot of
space. It's also pretty easy to construct from readily-available
materials, although a number of folk now supply complete kits,
including K4KIO and more recently DX Engineering.

73,
Steve G3TXQ

J.B. Wood June 4th 09 02:09 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
wrote:

I try to avoid exagerated claims for the design - at the end of the
day it's a "compressed" Yagi and performs as such. But it does provide
useful directivity over the five bands 20m thru 10m, with a single
feedline, in a size which suits those of us that don't have a lot of
space. It's also pretty easy to construct from readily-available
materials, although a number of folk now supply complete kits,
including K4KIO and more recently DX Engineering.

73,
Steve G3TXQ


Thanks for the reply, Steve. As for exaggerated claims, I'd have to
give the award to the designers of (and explainers of the "theory"
behind) the Crossed-Field Antenna (CFA). (Of course the CFA has been
the subject of numerous antenneX articles but I'm not placing yours in
that group!) 73s,

Mike Lucas June 4th 09 10:45 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 

"J.B. Wood" wrote :
Thanks for the reply, Steve. As for exaggerated claims, I'd have to give
the award to the designers of (and explainers of the "theory" behind) the
Crossed-Field Antenna (CFA). (Of course the CFA has been the subject of
numerous antenneX articles but I'm not placing yours in that group!) 73s,


I guess that you haven't seen info provided by Art on his shoe-box
sized 160M thru whatever antenna that has +9 db gain, and a pencil-thin beam
of radiated particles. Art's technical expertise beats the crap out of the
CFA
guys, as HE (Art) improves on Maxwell's and Gauss' equations, too. And all
of this from a retired mechanical engineer, working in his backyard!

Mike W5CHR
Memphis



Roy Lewallen June 5th 09 03:30 AM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
J.B. Wood wrote:

Thanks for the reply, Steve. As for exaggerated claims, I'd have to
give the award to the designers of (and explainers of the "theory"
behind) the Crossed-Field Antenna (CFA). (Of course the CFA has been
the subject of numerous antenneX articles but I'm not placing yours in
that group!) 73s,


Here's my candidate for the award, embodied in a U.S. patent:
http://tinyurl.com/h546u

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Jim Lux June 8th 09 07:06 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
Roy Lewallen wrote:
J.B. Wood wrote:

Thanks for the reply, Steve. As for exaggerated claims, I'd have to
give the award to the designers of (and explainers of the "theory"
behind) the Crossed-Field Antenna (CFA). (Of course the CFA has been
the subject of numerous antenneX articles but I'm not placing yours in
that group!) 73s,


Here's my candidate for the award, embodied in a U.S. patent:
http://tinyurl.com/h546u

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


This particular antenna has the useful property of enhancing plant
growth too..

"
It has been observed by the inventor and witnesses that accelerated
plant growth can occur using the present invention.
"

I think David Strom knew what we was writing about. He deserves a beer.

Jim Lux June 8th 09 07:11 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:30:29 -0700, Roy Lewallen
wrote:

Here's my candidate for the award, embodied in a U.S. patent:
http://tinyurl.com/h546u
Roy Lewallen, W7EL


The link first returned:
crt0: ERROR couldn't open /usr/lib/dld.sl errno:000000023
Error #1010
Error: Filter Process terminated abnormally. Document may be
truncated.

A few minutes later, it was:
Error #1006
Error!
BRS was unable to process your request. A diagnostic message was
mailed to the appropriate personnel.

I hate days like this.... Eventually the patent appeared, but no
illustrations on that page. Instead, see:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=csYDAAAAEBAJ&dq=6,025,810
for the schematics, illustrations and a parts list. Hmmm.... only
works above 1000F temperature. Googling a bit deeper, I find that the
patent holder, David L. Strom, is currently a real estate agent in
Colorado.
http://www.homethinking.com/180340-David-L-Strom-Coldwell-Banker-Strom--Associates-Inc.html


patent # 6025810 if you use the http://www.uspto.gov/ site..

Some day, we'll all be talking about the famous '810 Strom patent, just
like folks in the semiconductor industry talk about the '275 Kilby patent




Here's my favorite:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=N_sEAAAAEBAJ&dq=5,982,276
Not exactly an antenna. It uses a MASER to (somehow) magnetically
couple Gigabit data to the power lines. The company is still around:
http://www.mediafusionllc.net




And reforming:
"The Media Fusion Team is now re-forming. Mr. William "Luke" Stewart
will act a temporary President and Chief Executive as well as Chief
Scientist. As other key resources are identified and recruited they
will become part of the Media Fusion, LLC Team. A recruiting committee
has been formed and recommendations are now being considered."

perhaps because of
15 dec 2006.. Preliminary settlement agreement signed by the honorable
Judge Ann Ashby, presiding Judge, 134th District Court, Dallas, Texas.

Jeff Liebermann[_2_] June 9th 09 06:40 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:11:44 -0700, Jim Lux
wrote:

Here's my favorite:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=N_sEAAAAEBAJ&dq=5,982,276
Not exactly an antenna. It uses a MASER to (somehow) magnetically
couple Gigabit data to the power lines. The company is still around:
http://www.mediafusionllc.net


And reforming:
"The Media Fusion Team is now re-forming. Mr. William "Luke" Stewart
will act a temporary President and Chief Executive as well as Chief
Scientist. As other key resources are identified and recruited they
will become part of the Media Fusion, LLC Team. A recruiting committee
has been formed and recommendations are now being considered."

perhaps because of
15 dec 2006.. Preliminary settlement agreement signed by the honorable
Judge Ann Ashby, presiding Judge, 134th District Court, Dallas, Texas.


The old web sites are rather interesting:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.mediafusionllc.net

My favorite is the photos of the interface controller built into a
wall outlet box:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000229124801/www.mediafusionllc.net/northamerica/main/tech/interface.html
I showed it to a friend in the power industry who had some interesting
things to say about sharing a power outlet box with phone and cable.
However, the 14 flashing lights are kinda cool.

The problem with such patents is that if someone actually invents a
decent way to couple, distribute, and switch gigabit data on the power
lines, they'll end up in court fighting this patent. This is also
known as a "blocking patent".

It's sometimes fun to see where they spend their money. In 1999, they
burned $120K on lobbying. In 2000, they only wasted $70K.
https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?lname=Media+Fusion+LLC&id=Y000003383 20&year=1999

Also, I dunno about the FTL (faster than light) antenna design. That
implies that the acknowledgements will arrive before the
transmissions, which will surely confuse a T/R switch. Perhaps a
predictive T/R switch will help (one that switches before one intends
to switch it).

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Roy Lewallen June 10th 09 02:24 AM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
. . .
Also, I dunno about the FTL (faster than light) antenna design. That
implies that the acknowledgements will arrive before the
transmissions, which will surely confuse a T/R switch. Perhaps a
predictive T/R switch will help (one that switches before one intends
to switch it).


The cool thing is that you'll get the QSL card before you have the QSO.
If no QSL comes, don't bother with the QSO.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

J. B. Wood June 10th 09 11:35 AM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
In article ,
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
. . .
Also, I dunno about the FTL (faster than light) antenna design. That
implies that the acknowledgements will arrive before the
transmissions, which will surely confuse a T/R switch. Perhaps a
predictive T/R switch will help (one that switches before one intends
to switch it).


The cool thing is that you'll get the QSL card before you have the QSO.
If no QSL comes, don't bother with the QSO.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


Hey! I thought one had to await for auroras in NJ for that to happen ;_)
73s from N4GGO,

John Wood (Code 5550) e-mail:

Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20375-5337

Dave Platt June 10th 09 08:39 PM

Hexbeam Antenna Modeling
 
In article ,
Roy Lewallen wrote:

Also, I dunno about the FTL (faster than light) antenna design. That
implies that the acknowledgements will arrive before the
transmissions, which will surely confuse a T/R switch. Perhaps a
predictive T/R switch will help (one that switches before one intends
to switch it).


The cool thing is that you'll get the QSL card before you have the QSO.
If no QSL comes, don't bother with the QSO.


But, if you *do* get the QSL card, you *must* make the QSO. No
excuses allowed. If you don't, you rupture the space-time continuum,
cause the entire Universe to end, and are cited by the Causality
Police and must pay a stiff fine.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com