"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Aug 30, 7:27 pm, "Dale Parfitt" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message

...

Tom, W8ji apparently is an expert with antennas having lectured
at Dayton and has authored many technical articles around antennas,
states that radiators must be straight for maximum efficiency,
apparently

It would assist us if you would cut and paste the quote from Tom' site.
As I said before, the only place I ever saw this was with reference to
Beverages- the statement is true and obvious to everyone except perhaps you
Art.
The onus is upon you to prove that a Beverage in any other deployment
except straight would be better. I don't want to hear about your theories
that only you embrace- a simple EZNEC model will be sufficient.

Dale W4OP

On Aug 31, 12:40*pm, "Dale Parfitt" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message

...
On Aug 30, 7:27 pm, "Dale Parfitt" wrote: "Art Unwin" wrote in message

....

Tom, W8ji apparently is an expert with antennas having lectured
at Dayton and has authored many technical articles around antennas,
states that radiators must be straight for maximum efficiency,
apparently

It would assist us if you would cut and paste the quote from Tom' site.
As I said before, the only place I ever saw this was with reference to
Beverages- the statement is true and obvious to everyone except perhaps you
Art.
The onus *is upon you to prove that a Beverage in any other deployment
except straight would be better. I don't want to hear about your theories
that only you embrace- a simple EZNEC model will be sufficient.

Dale W4OP

Dale I am happy with the responses of the group. Seems like they are
united against the idea that radiators must be straight for maximum
efficiency. I never mentioned anything about Beverages, that was
somebody else. As far as Eznec is concerned I am not familiar with it
as I use a program equiped with an optimiser that tries to bring your
inputs in line with Maxwells equations. For instance, Eznec is only a
calculator devised to provide answers to that supplied with additions
to handle planar forms that are not in compliance. When you have an
optimiser and your input is not pre guided ,such as a planar input,
the optimiser will respond with a non planar design that includes
the
Coriolis force such that Maxwells equations are enforced , and that
requires equilibrium.
That also means the programs costs more but all antenna design
companies use them as they recognise the true value of adherence to
Maxwell's laws.
The above justifies my position on radiators unless you want to
declare "garbage in garbage out". I have a simple sample printed of a
computerized array that shows the above in the patent request that is
presently due for extinction. The military uses tipped radiators in
many places to gain coverage of the donut hole as I have shown, but
you will not see printed matter on the subject except from me. The WWW
changes a lot of things regarding secrecy. Remember, when Tesla died
he was working on a cheap energy system. The FBI raided his lab and
took every thing which even now has not seen the light of day!
I know. YOU now want me to provide a copy of the statement to you but
then,. you can choose to believe or not to believe and use free speech
to demand any thing. But I am not in your employ.

Hi Art,
I just want to make sure what you are quoting from ToW8JI.
So, if you have the time and inclination, please cut and paste Tom's
comments about straight radiators so we can all be on the same page.
I was the one who initially mentioned Beverages- because, although I am not
an expert on Tom's site, that is the only referecne I recall about straight
wires on his site.

Dale W4OP

On Aug 31, 1:31*pm, Art Unwin wrote:

The above justifies my position on radiators unless you want to
declare "garbage in garbage out".

I declare.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:31:30 -0700 (PDT), Art Unwin
wrote:

The above justifies my position on radiators unless you want to
declare "garbage in garbage out".

Close. It's like Kirchoff's Current Law. The sum of all comments
over a point on Usenet is zero.

http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/11-655899.pdf
Figure 3B on your patent application indicates:
Computer Derived Performance
(Use NEC, Mininec, or Mathcad style program)
along with some gain, F/B, and Z computation results. Above that is
part of a coordinate input table, showing wires 21 thru 23, used to
define antennas in a variety of NEC2 modeling programs. That suggests
that you have created an NEC2 (or NEC4) model for your Gaussian
Radiative Cluster (Antenna). This would be a big help in
understanding your antenna. I especially want to see how the elements
can be random and resonant at the same time, and what degree of
randomness is required.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Art Unwin wrote:
Tom, W8ji ... states that radiators must be
straight for maximum efficiency, ...

Why are short helical antennas less efficient than
full-size straight radiators? Is there any way to
fold a full-size straight radiator that results
in increased efficiency?
--
73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com

Art wrote:
"I have untold books on antennas but none (not including ARRL stuff)
provide any sort of reason that this could be true."

It is almost self evident that if it takes 2 feet of wire to do the work
of 1 foot, you get twice the resistance and loss.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI