Corriolis force
 

It seems that some do not understand what the Corriolis force is so
here goes
When the Big Bang ocurred all energy was in an arbitrary boundary
just like the Sun is. When the forces ( four forces of the Standard
model) could not be contained with in the boundary the boundary broke
which as scientists state was the begining of our Universe. Before the
arbitrary boundary broke it is a state of equilibrium ( This is also
duplicated by the Sun) You can visualize a ball which contains all
energy by placing vectors all around the inside where for every vector
on the inside there is an equal and opposite on the outside. Tho
energy cannot be created or destroyed, kinetic energy can occur at the
expense of potential energy such that the outside vectors are over
come. The boundary breaks and the excess forces are released until
the boundary is able to return to a state of equilibrium. Now when the
break occurs it is at the point of a particular vector such that the
breakage is created by a shearing action, as the forces in question
was not aligned, with spin. Thus when any energy,particles etc they
escaped with a spin action which force forces to balance requires an
equal and opposite reaction and the Corriolis force is that component.
Without the Corriolis component we could not remain on this Earth and
gravity could not exist. Thus to state spin or torque is not a force
is truly rediculous. Let the insults come.

Corriolis force
 

Art Unwin wrote:
It seems that some do not understand what the Corriolis force is so
here goes
When the Big Bang ocurred all energy was in an arbitrary boundary
just like the Sun is. When the forces ( four forces of the Standard
model) could not be contained with in the boundary the boundary broke
which as scientists state was the begining of our Universe. Before the
arbitrary boundary broke it is a state of equilibrium ( This is also
duplicated by the Sun) You can visualize a ball which contains all
energy by placing vectors all around the inside where for every vector
on the inside there is an equal and opposite on the outside. Tho
energy cannot be created or destroyed, kinetic energy can occur at the
expense of potential energy such that the outside vectors are over
come. The boundary breaks and the excess forces are released until
the boundary is able to return to a state of equilibrium. Now when the
break occurs it is at the point of a particular vector such that the
breakage is created by a shearing action, as the forces in question
was not aligned, with spin. Thus when any energy,particles etc they
escaped with a spin action which force forces to balance requires an
equal and opposite reaction and the Corriolis force is that component.
Without the Corriolis component we could not remain on this Earth and
gravity could not exist. Thus to state spin or torque is not a force
is truly rediculous. Let the insults come.

Have you ever considered stand up comedy?

tom
K0TAR

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 2, 9:22*pm, tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
It seems that some do not understand what the Corriolis force is so
here goes
When the Big Bang ocurred all energy was in *an arbitrary boundary
just like the Sun is. When the forces *( four forces of the Standard
model) could not be contained with in the boundary the boundary broke
which as scientists state was the begining of our Universe. Before the
arbitrary boundary broke it is a state of equilibrium ( This is also
duplicated by the Sun) You can visualize a ball which contains all
energy by placing vectors all around the inside where for every vector
on the inside there is an equal and opposite on the outside. Tho
energy cannot be created or destroyed, kinetic energy can occur at the
expense of potential energy such that the outside vectors are over
come. *The boundary breaks and the excess forces are released until
the boundary is able to return to a state of equilibrium. Now when the
break occurs it is *at the point of a particular vector such that the
breakage is created by a shearing action, as the forces in question
was not aligned, with spin. Thus when any energy,particles etc *they
escaped with a spin action which force forces to balance requires an
equal and opposite reaction and the Corriolis force is that component.
Without the Corriolis component we could not remain on this Earth and
gravity could not exist. Thus to state spin or torque is not a force
is truly rediculous. Let the insults come.

Have you ever considered stand up comedy?

tom
K0TAR

Heh it is just standard classical physics. Just like saying a tornado
is not a force.
or a antenna cannot be resonant. Totally rediculous. If you want to
know more take a physics lesson maybe more than one in your case. Now
the Electroweak force is only called weak because it is the weakest of
all the initial forces created in the big bang. This
is the force created as a result of two forces acting towards each
other but not on the same plain where a boundary is broken. Plain
Classical Physics, nothing more.


e big b ang

Corriolis force
 

Art Unwin wrote:

Heh it is just standard classical physics. Just like saying a tornado
is not a force.
or a antenna cannot be resonant. Totally rediculous. If you want to
know more take a physics lesson maybe more than one in your case. Now
the Electroweak force is only called weak because it is the weakest of
all the initial forces created in the big bang. This
is the force created as a result of two forces acting towards each
other but not on the same plain where a boundary is broken. Plain
Classical Physics, nothing more.


e big b ang

As usual, a response that contains absolutely no information and some
perfectly well done misspellings.

No acknowledgment of the previous posts or of the information presented.

Classic Art.

You really have to love his style.

tom
K0TAR

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 2, 10:03*pm, tom wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:

Heh it is just standard classical physics. *Just like saying a tornado
is not a force.
or a antenna cannot be resonant. Totally rediculous. If you want to
know more take a physics lesson *maybe more than one in your case. Now
the Electroweak force is only called weak because it is the weakest of
all the initial forces created in the big bang. This
is the force created as a result of two forces acting towards each
other but not on the same plain where a boundary is broken. Plain
Classical Physics, nothing more.

e big b ang

As usual, a response that contains absolutely no information and some
perfectly well done misspellings.

No acknowledgment of the previous posts or of the information presented.

Classic Art.

You really have to love his style.

tom
K0TAR

But Tom your previous posts have not contained anything to respond to
unless you want retalatory sniping, but that is a waste of time. As
for no information presented, Einstein died
before Electroweak force was resolved tho he was convinced the answer
was related to radiation. Now I have identified it to you! Surely you
feel good. You now know something
that all the big boys have struggled after. The Electroweak force is
that which propells particles into free space so that it accelerates
in a straight line. In other words "point radiation". This being
similar to eddy current. Einstein concentrated on internal and
external forces without concern to the "hoop stress" that is part and
parcel of all boundaries. Just like that which surround a bubble.
These same two vectors that create a shearing force is equal to the
combination of gravity and the Coriolis force. This is the reason why
a vertical antenna must be tipped to form a isotropic radiation
pattern in equilibrium which computer programs confirm. No, the above
is not printed any where in the College books, but it will.
No information you say? It is just that you can't handle it so you
depend on insults.
Yes, you did get information but you have not the grounding to
understand what you read.

Corriolis force
 

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...

blather snipped

Without the Corriolis component we could not remain on this Earth and
gravity could not exist. Thus to state spin or torque is not a force
is truly rediculous. Let the insults come.

Before he tries to explain it further, perhaps he should learn to spell it.
(one "r")

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 2, 11:49*pm, Art Unwin wrote:
On Sep 2, 10:03*pm, tom wrote:



Art Unwin wrote:

Heh it is just standard classical physics. *Just like saying a tornado
is not a force.
or a antenna cannot be resonant. Totally rediculous. If you want to
know more take a physics lesson *maybe more than one in your case. Now
the Electroweak force is only called weak because it is the weakest of
all the initial forces created in the big bang. This
is the force created as a result of two forces acting towards each
other but not on the same plain where a boundary is broken. Plain
Classical Physics, nothing more.

e big b ang

As usual, a response that contains absolutely no information and some
perfectly well done misspellings.

No acknowledgment of the previous posts or of the information presented..

Classic Art.

You really have to love his style.

tom
K0TAR

But Tom your previous posts have not contained anything to respond to
unless you want retalatory sniping, but that is a waste of time. As
for no information presented, Einstein died
before Electroweak force was resolved tho he was convinced the answer
was related to radiation. Now I have identified it to you! *Surely you
feel good. You now know something
that all the big boys have struggled after. *The Electroweak force is
that which propells particles into free space so that it accelerates
in a straight line. In other words "point radiation". This being
similar to eddy current. Einstein concentrated on internal and
external forces without concern to the "hoop stress" that is part and
parcel of all boundaries. Just like that which surround a bubble.
These same two vectors that create a shearing force is equal to the
combination of gravity and the Coriolis force. This is *the reason why
a vertical antenna must be tipped to form a isotropic radiation
pattern in equilibrium which computer programs confirm. No, the above
is not printed any where in the College books, but it will.
No information you say? It is just that you can't handle it so you
depend on insults.
Yes, you did get information but you have not the grounding to
understand what you read.

Whether Art is a troll or a blithering old coot he isn't here to learn
anything , he just wants to be entertained.

Jimmie

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 3, 8:34*am, JIMMIE wrote:
On Sep 2, 11:49*pm, Art Unwin wrote:



On Sep 2, 10:03*pm, tom wrote:

Art Unwin wrote:

Heh it is just standard classical physics. *Just like saying a tornado
is not a force.
or a antenna cannot be resonant. Totally rediculous. If you want to
know more take a physics lesson *maybe more than one in your case.. Now
the Electroweak force is only called weak because it is the weakest of
all the initial forces created in the big bang. This
is the force created as a result of two forces acting towards each
other but not on the same plain where a boundary is broken. Plain
Classical Physics, nothing more.

e big b ang

As usual, a response that contains absolutely no information and some
perfectly well done misspellings.

No acknowledgment of the previous posts or of the information presented.

Classic Art.

You really have to love his style.

tom
K0TAR

But Tom your previous posts have not contained anything to respond to
unless you want retalatory sniping, but that is a waste of time. As
for no information presented, Einstein died
before Electroweak force was resolved tho he was convinced the answer
was related to radiation. Now I have identified it to you! *Surely you
feel good. You now know something
that all the big boys have struggled after. *The Electroweak force is
that which propells particles into free space so that it accelerates
in a straight line. In other words "point radiation". This being
similar to eddy current. Einstein concentrated on internal and
external forces without concern to the "hoop stress" that is part and
parcel of all boundaries. Just like that which surround a bubble.
These same two vectors that create a shearing force is equal to the
combination of gravity and the Coriolis force. This is *the reason why
a vertical antenna must be tipped to form a isotropic radiation
pattern in equilibrium which computer programs confirm. No, the above
is not printed any where in the College books, but it will.
No information you say? It is just that you can't handle it so you
depend on insults.
Yes, you did get information but you have not the grounding to
understand what you read.

Whether Art is a troll or a blithering old coot he isn't here to learn
anything , he just wants to be entertained.

Jimmie

No. I am just exposing the so called self perceived experts on this
group to the outside world and I enjoy every bit of it. The talking
heads have no idea of the silent readers
that are laughing at you and your ignorance.

Corriolis force
 

Hi Unwin!

Art Unwin wrote:

No. I am just exposing the so called self perceived experts on this
group to the outside world and I enjoy every bit of it. The talking
heads have no idea of the silent readers
that are laughing at you and your ignorance.

The things even skilled observers of this force seem to understand can be even
more subtle than at first thought! Most of us tend to 'view' things and
'solve' problems in two dimensions. That person is in my face or I'll just
flank attack this, said in humor here. But even a very skilled and observant
person, for example, gains a really more interesting perspective of life and
everything around them when .. for the first time .. they solo fly an airplane!

The average person takes about six to eight hours of dual instruction to get to
the level of awareness at which it is safe for the flight instructor to let the
student go it alone. Just before takeoff when at the practicing takeoff and
landing routine is going on, just before takeoff, "Well, your good enough at
this to do it on your own! Take it around the pattern by yourself!" And the
flight instructor pops off his seat belt, opens that right side door of the
aircraft in a Cessna 140 or 150, for example. Gets out and slams the door shut
and walks away!

The average student is so thrilled and whatever at this he or she just jams in
the throttle and away it goes! But then even the most capable candidate
suddenly has a different perspective of things when as the get set for their
first solo landing. as they are looking down into the whole space between them
and the approach end of the runway, it hits!

It's the first time they ever have really had to make a life or death decision
in more than two dimensions! Height is totally involved here too. Suddenly,
even though they don't realize it, they are dealing with the third level of
infinities. You can have an infinite number of points in a line. But since
you can have an infinitive number of lines in a plane that means the second
order of infinity is so defined! And .. surprise .. you can have in an
infinite number of planes in a cube or sphere, so there is, for the first time,
life or death, the experience of their total involvement in level three of
infinity. Plus since time is the fourth level of infinity, when the wheels
touch the pavement and the student completes this once in a life time
experience, their life will NEVER be the same again.

For the rest of their life they will begin solving problems and understanding
what is said, displayed, posted in a discussion, all by looking down into the
scenario. And once this is done, you can NEVER go back again to the person you
were before this event.

And no, computer games and flight simulators don't do it, unless the simulator
can kill you if you make a mistake, grin! It has to be the real thing. Every
Peregrine Falcon knows when to turn lose in the dive of love, as far as I've
ever known, chuckle.

But that also doesn't mean you know everything about force problems to which
you are presented, grin! Yes, I was the Chief Flight Instructor for Texas
Airmotive Company at Easterwood Airport in College Station, Texas, during much
of Viet Nam. And I had to ride at least once with all the Texas Aggies who
were trying to become pilots as part of their path into the future of life.
Which, incidentally included such people as Robert Barr, one of the pilots for
the US Air Force One and what became some 47 US generals. In my humble view
all because they jumped forward to multi-dimension problem solving.

But .. that doesn't mean even at this level of perspective you see all that
confronts you, grin.

I never realized for more than a decade later, how this issue of Coriolis Force
is far more important to all living things than I suspect even many of us here
have understood. As, much later at this, the CEO for the manufacturer of
Hanover Trailers here in Bryan, Texas, the actual marketing main vector for the
introduction of all the gooseneck cattle and small utility trailers in all the
USA, I learned lots more, I think. Notice I said, "I think." No, the original
gooseneck small utility trailer was originally created by James Batchler of
Throckmorton, Texas, in 1936. But even as it vectored out into the Hanover
Trailer in the 1940's and mushroomed into tons of other manufacturers, it was
the custom horse trailer versions of this which revealed something else to me
about Coriolis Force.

Yes, I knew the toilet water runs around the bowl one way on the North side of
the Equator up here in the USA. And the other direction down in Australia.
But I kept getting asked to build trailers for horse owners for more than two
horses with stalls at an angle! The head of the horse was asked to be toward
the left side of the trailer. The stall gate was angled back on the right side
so the horses were stalled all with their heads forward and to the left! Teir
rear ends behind them and to the right. I asked, "Why?" I was told, "It's
simple, Mike! A normal horse is right footed. If they go to fall, they always
start to put their right front hoof out first to give then the best chance of
handling the situation."

Hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting. As a human, do a little research. I think you will
find that, just as most humans are right-handed, we tend to start walking or
running with our right foot also! Hmmmmmm. Interesting. So I started
looking down into the problem and yes, dogs and cats do to! Why? Well, if you
peek down into all this, all vertebrates seem to be right sided, I think.

Duhh .. then why? I speculate. Well, if all vertebrate life is somehow
related over all these eons, is this because all current life forms sort of
focus on evolution on the planet from one side of the Equator? And they swim
looking for food kind of right sided so they don't have to fight the average
Coriolis Force against it for the best chance at eating easiest? And so on?
And does this really mean that this is really all 'proof' that even the humans
came from what was most efficiently evolving in the march of life traveling the
the fourth dimension that we need? Even for huge numbers of generations?

And might be even more of an explanation why there is still so much fuss going
on between even very brilliant and skilled engineers who may not even ever see
the real issues of why things seem to be different between them, or the need to
do everything we can to go forward with the least confusion and flanking
amongst us all?

For what is going to become of all this Coriolis Force issue, perhaps, on
December 21, 2012, and who will be in the right doing what for all us humans
and so on at that time?

Chortle!

--


-- Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther

Corriolis force
 

Mike Luther wrote:
Hi Unwin!

Art Unwin wrote:

No. I am just exposing the so called self perceived experts on this
group to the outside world and I enjoy every bit of it. The talking
heads have no idea of the silent readers
that are laughing at you and your ignorance.

The things even skilled observers of this force seem to understand can
be even more subtle than at first thought! Most of us tend to 'view'
things and 'solve' problems in two dimensions. That person is in my
face or I'll just flank attack this, said in humor here. But even a
very skilled and observant person, for example, gains a really more
interesting perspective of life and everything around them when .. for
the first time .. they solo fly an airplane!

The average person takes about six to eight hours of dual instruction to
get to the level of awareness at which it is safe for the flight
instructor to let the student go it alone. Just before takeoff when at
the practicing takeoff and landing routine is going on, just before
takeoff, "Well, your good enough at this to do it on your own! Take it
around the pattern by yourself!" And the flight instructor pops off his
seat belt, opens that right side door of the aircraft in a Cessna 140 or
150, for example. Gets out and slams the door shut and walks away!

The average student is so thrilled and whatever at this he or she just
jams in the throttle and away it goes! But then even the most capable
candidate suddenly has a different perspective of things when as the get
set for their first solo landing. as they are looking down into the
whole space between them and the approach end of the runway, it hits!

It's the first time they ever have really had to make a life or death
decision in more than two dimensions! Height is totally involved here
too. Suddenly, even though they don't realize it, they are dealing with
the third level of infinities. You can have an infinite number of
points in a line. But since you can have an infinitive number of lines
in a plane that means the second order of infinity is so defined! And
.. surprise .. you can have in an infinite number of planes in a cube or
sphere, so there is, for the first time, life or death, the experience
of their total involvement in level three of infinity. Plus since time
is the fourth level of infinity, when the wheels touch the pavement and
the student completes this once in a life time experience, their life
will NEVER be the same again.

For the rest of their life they will begin solving problems and
understanding what is said, displayed, posted in a discussion, all by
looking down into the scenario. And once this is done, you can NEVER go
back again to the person you were before this event.

And no, computer games and flight simulators don't do it, unless the
simulator can kill you if you make a mistake, grin! It has to be the
real thing. Every Peregrine Falcon knows when to turn lose in the dive
of love, as far as I've ever known, chuckle.

But that also doesn't mean you know everything about force problems to
which you are presented, grin! Yes, I was the Chief Flight Instructor
for Texas Airmotive Company at Easterwood Airport in College Station,
Texas, during much of Viet Nam. And I had to ride at least once with
all the Texas Aggies who were trying to become pilots as part of their
path into the future of life. Which, incidentally included such people
as Robert Barr, one of the pilots for the US Air Force One and what
became some 47 US generals. In my humble view all because they jumped
forward to multi-dimension problem solving.

But .. that doesn't mean even at this level of perspective you see all
that confronts you, grin.

I never realized for more than a decade later, how this issue of
Coriolis Force is far more important to all living things than I suspect
even many of us here have understood. As, much later at this, the CEO
for the manufacturer of Hanover Trailers here in Bryan, Texas, the
actual marketing main vector for the introduction of all the gooseneck
cattle and small utility trailers in all the USA, I learned lots more, I
think. Notice I said, "I think." No, the original gooseneck small
utility trailer was originally created by James Batchler of
Throckmorton, Texas, in 1936. But even as it vectored out into the
Hanover Trailer in the 1940's and mushroomed into tons of other
manufacturers, it was the custom horse trailer versions of this which
revealed something else to me about Coriolis Force.

Yes, I knew the toilet water runs around the bowl one way on the North
side of the Equator up here in the USA. And the other direction down in
Australia. But I kept getting asked to build trailers for horse owners
for more than two horses with stalls at an angle! The head of the horse
was asked to be toward the left side of the trailer. The stall gate was
angled back on the right side so the horses were stalled all with their
heads forward and to the left! Teir rear ends behind them and to the
right. I asked, "Why?" I was told, "It's simple, Mike! A normal horse
is right footed. If they go to fall, they always start to put their
right front hoof out first to give then the best chance of handling the
situation."

Hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting. As a human, do a little research. I think
you will find that, just as most humans are right-handed, we tend to
start walking or running with our right foot also! Hmmmmmm.
Interesting. So I started looking down into the problem and yes, dogs
and cats do to! Why? Well, if you peek down into all this, all
vertebrates seem to be right sided, I think.

Duhh .. then why? I speculate. Well, if all vertebrate life is somehow
related over all these eons, is this because all current life forms sort
of focus on evolution on the planet from one side of the Equator? And
they swim looking for food kind of right sided so they don't have to
fight the average Coriolis Force against it for the best chance at
eating easiest? And so on? And does this really mean that this is
really all 'proof' that even the humans came from what was most
efficiently evolving in the march of life traveling the the fourth
dimension that we need? Even for huge numbers of generations?

And might be even more of an explanation why there is still so much fuss
going on between even very brilliant and skilled engineers who may not
even ever see the real issues of why things seem to be different between
them, or the need to do everything we can to go forward with the least
confusion and flanking amongst us all?

For what is going to become of all this Coriolis Force issue, perhaps,
on December 21, 2012, and who will be in the right doing what for all us
humans and so on at that time?

Chortle!


Oh my Goodness, is this Art's Doppelganger?

John W3JXP

Corriolis force
 

No, grin ..

John Passaneau wrote:
Mike Luther wrote:



Oh my Goodness, is this Art's Doppelganger?

John W3JXP

W5WQN since 1952

--


-- Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 3, 12:36*pm, Mike Luther wrote:
Hi Unwin!

Art Unwin wrote:
No. I am just exposing the so called self perceived experts on this
group to the outside world and I enjoy every bit of it. *The talking
heads have no idea of the silent readers
that are laughing at you and your ignorance.

The things even skilled observers of this force seem to understand can be even
more subtle than at first thought! *Most of us tend to 'view' things and
'solve' problems in two dimensions. *That person is in my face or I'll just
flank attack this, said in humor here. *But even a very skilled and observant
person, for example, gains a really more interesting perspective of life and
everything around them when .. for the first time .. they solo fly an airplane!

The average person takes about six to eight hours of dual instruction to get to
the level of awareness at which it is safe for the flight instructor to let the
student go it alone. *Just before takeoff when at the practicing takeoff and
landing routine is going on, just before takeoff, "Well, your good enough at
this to do it on your own! *Take it around the pattern by yourself!" *And the
flight instructor pops off his seat belt, opens that right side door of the
aircraft in a Cessna 140 or 150, for example. *Gets out and slams the door shut
and walks away!

The average student is so thrilled and whatever at this he or she just jams in
the throttle and away it goes! *But then even the most capable candidate
suddenly has a different perspective of things when as the get set for their
first solo landing. as they are looking down into the whole space between them
and the approach end of the runway, it hits!

It's the first time they ever have really had to make a life or death decision
in more than two dimensions! *Height is totally involved here too. *Suddenly,
even though they don't realize it, they are dealing with the third level of
infinities. *You can have an infinite number of points in a line. *But since
you can have an infinitive number of lines in a plane that means the second
order of infinity is so defined! *And .. surprise .. you can have in an
infinite number of planes in a cube or sphere, so there is, for the first time,
life or death, the experience of their total involvement in level three of
infinity. *Plus since time is the fourth level of infinity, when the wheels
touch the pavement and the student completes this once in a life time
experience, their life will NEVER be the same again.

For the rest of their life they will begin solving problems and understanding
what is said, displayed, posted in a discussion, all by looking down into the
scenario. *And once this is done, you can NEVER go back again to the person you
were before this event.

And no, computer games and flight simulators don't do it, unless the simulator
can kill you if you make a mistake, grin! *It has to be the real thing. *Every
Peregrine Falcon knows when to turn lose in the dive of love, as far as I've
ever known, chuckle.

But that also doesn't mean you know everything about force problems to which
you are presented, grin! *Yes, I was the Chief Flight Instructor for Texas
Airmotive Company at Easterwood Airport in College Station, Texas, during much
of Viet Nam. *And I had to ride at least once with all the Texas Aggies who
were trying to become pilots as part of their path into the future of life.
Which, incidentally included such people as Robert Barr, one of the pilots for
the US Air Force One and what became some 47 US generals. *In my humble view
all because they jumped forward to multi-dimension problem solving.

But .. that doesn't mean even at this level of perspective you see all that
confronts you, grin.

I never realized for more than a decade later, how this issue of Coriolis Force
is far more important to all living things than I suspect even many of us here
have understood. *As, much later at this, the CEO for the manufacturer of
Hanover Trailers here in Bryan, Texas, the actual marketing main vector for the
introduction of all the gooseneck cattle and small utility trailers in all the
USA, I learned lots more, I think. *Notice I said, "I think." *No, the original
gooseneck small utility trailer was originally created by James Batchler of
Throckmorton, Texas, in 1936. *But even as it vectored out into the Hanover
Trailer in the 1940's and mushroomed into tons of other manufacturers, it was
the custom horse trailer versions of this which revealed something else to me
about Coriolis Force.

Yes, I knew the toilet water runs around the bowl one way on the North side of
the Equator up here in the USA. *And the other direction down in Australia.
But I kept getting asked to build trailers for horse owners for more than two
horses with stalls at an angle! *The head of the horse was asked to be toward
the left side of the trailer. *The stall gate was angled back on the right side
so the horses were stalled all with their heads forward and to the left! *Teir
rear ends behind them and to the right. *I asked, "Why?" *I was told, "It's
simple, Mike! *A normal horse is right footed. *If they go to fall, they always
start to put their right front hoof out first to give then the best chance of
handling the situation."

Hmmmmmmmmm. * Interesting. *As a human, do a little research. *I think you will
find that, just as most humans are right-handed, we tend to start walking or
running with our right foot also! *Hmmmmmm. * Interesting. *So I started
looking down into the problem and yes, dogs and cats do to! *Why? *Well, if you
peek down into all this, all vertebrates seem to be right sided, I think.

Duhh .. then why? *I speculate. *Well, if all vertebrate life is somehow
related over all these eons, is this because all current life forms sort of
focus on evolution on the planet from one side of the Equator? *And they swim
looking for food kind of right sided so they don't have to fight the average
Coriolis Force against it for the best chance at eating easiest? *And so on?
And does this really mean that this is really all 'proof' that even the humans
came from what was most efficiently evolving in the march of life traveling the
the fourth dimension that we need? *Even for huge numbers of generations?

And might be even more of an explanation why there is still so much fuss going
on between even very brilliant and skilled engineers who may not even ever see
the real issues of why things seem to be different between them, or the need to
do everything we can to go forward with the least confusion and flanking
amongst us all?

For what is going to become of all this Coriolis Force issue, perhaps, on
December 21, 2012, and who will be in the right doing what for all us humans
and so on at that time?

Chortle!

--

-- Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther

Mike I agree. A bullet has a three dimensional force so that it can
attain a straight line trajectory, the same that a radiated partical
must have for a straight line trajectory.The bottom line is that every
action has an equal and opposite reaction per Newton which means that
one must turn to the breakaway from equilibrium in the Big Bang. to
determine
the number of forces that are available when one considers what we as
humans must determine as what can be equal and opposite. With in the
earth's boundary we must recognise the existance and the impact of the
Coriolis force in our every day life including the need for spin on a
projectile so that it may attain a straight line trajectory. A space
rocket succumbs to the Coriolis effect by turning slowly while it is
attaining height as well as when it escapes from earths boundary where
it uses centrifugal force or spin. The boundary rules I consider the
greatest reasoning of all to human kind and that is a true picture as
to the laws of Newton.
Radio is in the stage of two dimension the same as the human race when
they stated man was never meant to fly purely because they object to
change of the existing perspectives
as Gallilao found out to his cost among others. If one considers the
std model one knows that the strong force is atom related via
separation which has unlimited energy and yet many blithly believe
that the matrics of a radiator is torn apart to produce radiation.
If this were true, nobody would pick up a microphone or even use a CRT
when assuming
the beam particle came from the matrics and not on a particle that
came to rest from outside our boundary. It all emphasises that the
human race is resistance to change because of the fear it can generate
such that they rather not want to know, At the moment true radiation
is not fully understood and on this newsgroup they don't want to know
unless they can read it in a book in college Are they going to alter
radiation computer programs that support the impact of the Coriolis
effect or go ahead and still use them despite the so called errors
that they supply?
Best regards
Art Unwin KB9MZ xg(UK)

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 3, 11:33*am, Art Unwin wrote:


I am ... exposing the so called self perceived experts on this
group to the outside world and I enjoy every bit of it. *The talking
heads have no idea of the silent readers
that are laughing at you and your ignorance.

At least Chip Cohen's imaginary supporters would actually post from
AOL.
Is Art or Chip the crazier one?

Corriolis force
 

Art Unwin wrote:
On Sep 3, 12:36 pm, Mike Luther wrote:
Hi Unwin!

Art Unwin wrote:
No. I am just exposing the so called self perceived experts on this
group to the outside world and I enjoy every bit of it. The talking
heads have no idea of the silent readers
that are laughing at you and your ignorance.
The things even skilled observers of this force seem to understand can be even
more subtle than at first thought! Most of us tend to 'view' things and
'solve' problems in two dimensions. That person is in my face or I'll just
flank attack this, said in humor here. But even a very skilled and observant
person, for example, gains a really more interesting perspective of life and
everything around them when .. for the first time .. they solo fly an airplane!

The average person takes about six to eight hours of dual instruction to get to
the level of awareness at which it is safe for the flight instructor to let the
student go it alone. Just before takeoff when at the practicing takeoff and
landing routine is going on, just before takeoff, "Well, your good enough at
this to do it on your own! Take it around the pattern by yourself!" And the
flight instructor pops off his seat belt, opens that right side door of the
aircraft in a Cessna 140 or 150, for example. Gets out and slams the door shut
and walks away!

The average student is so thrilled and whatever at this he or she just jams in
the throttle and away it goes! But then even the most capable candidate
suddenly has a different perspective of things when as the get set for their
first solo landing. as they are looking down into the whole space between them
and the approach end of the runway, it hits!

It's the first time they ever have really had to make a life or death decision
in more than two dimensions! Height is totally involved here too. Suddenly,
even though they don't realize it, they are dealing with the third level of
infinities. You can have an infinite number of points in a line. But since
you can have an infinitive number of lines in a plane that means the second
order of infinity is so defined! And .. surprise .. you can have in an
infinite number of planes in a cube or sphere, so there is, for the first time,
life or death, the experience of their total involvement in level three of
infinity. Plus since time is the fourth level of infinity, when the wheels
touch the pavement and the student completes this once in a life time
experience, their life will NEVER be the same again.

For the rest of their life they will begin solving problems and understanding
what is said, displayed, posted in a discussion, all by looking down into the
scenario. And once this is done, you can NEVER go back again to the person you
were before this event.

And no, computer games and flight simulators don't do it, unless the simulator
can kill you if you make a mistake, grin! It has to be the real thing. Every
Peregrine Falcon knows when to turn lose in the dive of love, as far as I've
ever known, chuckle.

But that also doesn't mean you know everything about force problems to which
you are presented, grin! Yes, I was the Chief Flight Instructor for Texas
Airmotive Company at Easterwood Airport in College Station, Texas, during much
of Viet Nam. And I had to ride at least once with all the Texas Aggies who
were trying to become pilots as part of their path into the future of life.
Which, incidentally included such people as Robert Barr, one of the pilots for
the US Air Force One and what became some 47 US generals. In my humble view
all because they jumped forward to multi-dimension problem solving.

But .. that doesn't mean even at this level of perspective you see all that
confronts you, grin.

I never realized for more than a decade later, how this issue of Coriolis Force
is far more important to all living things than I suspect even many of us here
have understood. As, much later at this, the CEO for the manufacturer of
Hanover Trailers here in Bryan, Texas, the actual marketing main vector for the
introduction of all the gooseneck cattle and small utility trailers in all the
USA, I learned lots more, I think. Notice I said, "I think." No, the original
gooseneck small utility trailer was originally created by James Batchler of
Throckmorton, Texas, in 1936. But even as it vectored out into the Hanover
Trailer in the 1940's and mushroomed into tons of other manufacturers, it was
the custom horse trailer versions of this which revealed something else to me
about Coriolis Force.

Yes, I knew the toilet water runs around the bowl one way on the North side of
the Equator up here in the USA. And the other direction down in Australia.
But I kept getting asked to build trailers for horse owners for more than two
horses with stalls at an angle! The head of the horse was asked to be toward
the left side of the trailer. The stall gate was angled back on the right side
so the horses were stalled all with their heads forward and to the left! Teir
rear ends behind them and to the right. I asked, "Why?" I was told, "It's
simple, Mike! A normal horse is right footed. If they go to fall, they always
start to put their right front hoof out first to give then the best chance of
handling the situation."

Hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting. As a human, do a little research. I think you will
find that, just as most humans are right-handed, we tend to start walking or
running with our right foot also! Hmmmmmm. Interesting. So I started
looking down into the problem and yes, dogs and cats do to! Why? Well, if you
peek down into all this, all vertebrates seem to be right sided, I think.

Duhh .. then why? I speculate. Well, if all vertebrate life is somehow
related over all these eons, is this because all current life forms sort of
focus on evolution on the planet from one side of the Equator? And they swim
looking for food kind of right sided so they don't have to fight the average
Coriolis Force against it for the best chance at eating easiest? And so on?
And does this really mean that this is really all 'proof' that even the humans
came from what was most efficiently evolving in the march of life traveling the
the fourth dimension that we need? Even for huge numbers of generations?

And might be even more of an explanation why there is still so much fuss going
on between even very brilliant and skilled engineers who may not even ever see
the real issues of why things seem to be different between them, or the need to
do everything we can to go forward with the least confusion and flanking
amongst us all?

For what is going to become of all this Coriolis Force issue, perhaps, on
December 21, 2012, and who will be in the right doing what for all us humans
and so on at that time?

Chortle!

--

-- Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther

Mike I agree. A bullet has a three dimensional force so that it can
attain a straight line trajectory, the same that a radiated partical
must have for a straight line trajectory.

Bullets arc, they don't go in a straight line. A bullet shot straight
and level will hit the ground at the same time as a bullet dropped from
the same height. That describes an arc that is proportional to the
velocity of the bullet.

While we're at it, the coriolis force water down the drain difference
between southern and northern hemisphere is an urban myth. While there
can be some effect on the rotation, frictional and initial conditions
are so much greater that the coriolis effect is measurable, but it isn't
the reason the water is going down a certain way.



humans must determine as what can be equal and opposite. With in the
earth's boundary we must recognise the existance and the impact of the
Coriolis force in our every day life including the need for spin on a
projectile so that it may attain a straight line trajectory.

Most people believe that the spin on a bullet acts as a Gyroscopic
stabilization. It's not a demonstration of coriolis force. If the bullet
actually were to use the coriolis force, would it not have to be
rotating at a rate equal but opposite? Which of course means that the
rifling on a rifle would need to be opposite between southern and
northern hemispheres, and at the equator would need to have no rifling
at all, or if you used a gun from one of the other hemisphere, the
bullet would have a tendency to either oppose gravity by traveling up,
or would almost immediately slam into the ground.


A space
rocket succumbs to the Coriolis effect by turning slowly while it is
attaining height as well as when it escapes from earths boundary where
it uses centrifugal force or spin.


We turned, not the rocket.



Radio is in the stage of two dimension the same as the human race when
they stated man was never meant to fly purely because they object to
change of the existing perspectives
as Gallilao found out to his cost among others.

Most folks believe that the coriolis force is applied in instances of
inertia, and not from an identifiable source, so an antenna, which is
radiating a non-accelerating EM radiation with an inertial point of
reference, isn't affected by such.

- 73 de Mike -

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 3, 3:29*pm, Michael Coslo wrote:
Art Unwin wrote:
On Sep 3, 12:36 pm, Mike Luther wrote:
Hi Unwin!

Art Unwin wrote:
No. I am just exposing the so called self perceived experts on this
group to the outside world and I enjoy every bit of it. *The talking
heads have no idea of the silent readers
that are laughing at you and your ignorance.
The things even skilled observers of this force seem to understand can be even
more subtle than at first thought! *Most of us tend to 'view' things and
'solve' problems in two dimensions. *That person is in my face or I'll just
flank attack this, said in humor here. *But even a very skilled and observant
person, for example, gains a really more interesting perspective of life and
everything around them when .. for the first time .. they solo fly an airplane!

The average person takes about six to eight hours of dual instruction to get to
the level of awareness at which it is safe for the flight instructor to let the
student go it alone. *Just before takeoff when at the practicing takeoff and
landing routine is going on, just before takeoff, "Well, your good enough at
this to do it on your own! *Take it around the pattern by yourself!" *And the
flight instructor pops off his seat belt, opens that right side door of the
aircraft in a Cessna 140 or 150, for example. *Gets out and slams the door shut
and walks away!

The average student is so thrilled and whatever at this he or she just jams in
the throttle and away it goes! *But then even the most capable candidate
suddenly has a different perspective of things when as the get set for their
first solo landing. as they are looking down into the whole space between them
and the approach end of the runway, it hits!

It's the first time they ever have really had to make a life or death decision
in more than two dimensions! *Height is totally involved here too. *Suddenly,
even though they don't realize it, they are dealing with the third level of
infinities. *You can have an infinite number of points in a line. *But since
you can have an infinitive number of lines in a plane that means the second
order of infinity is so defined! *And .. surprise .. you can have in an
infinite number of planes in a cube or sphere, so there is, for the first time,
life or death, the experience of their total involvement in level three of
infinity. *Plus since time is the fourth level of infinity, when the wheels
touch the pavement and the student completes this once in a life time
experience, their life will NEVER be the same again.

For the rest of their life they will begin solving problems and understanding
what is said, displayed, posted in a discussion, all by looking down into the
scenario. *And once this is done, you can NEVER go back again to the person you
were before this event.

And no, computer games and flight simulators don't do it, unless the simulator
can kill you if you make a mistake, grin! *It has to be the real thing. *Every
Peregrine Falcon knows when to turn lose in the dive of love, as far as I've
ever known, chuckle.

But that also doesn't mean you know everything about force problems to which
you are presented, grin! *Yes, I was the Chief Flight Instructor for Texas
Airmotive Company at Easterwood Airport in College Station, Texas, during much
of Viet Nam. *And I had to ride at least once with all the Texas Aggies who
were trying to become pilots as part of their path into the future of life.
Which, incidentally included such people as Robert Barr, one of the pilots for
the US Air Force One and what became some 47 US generals. *In my humble view
all because they jumped forward to multi-dimension problem solving.

But .. that doesn't mean even at this level of perspective you see all that
confronts you, grin.

I never realized for more than a decade later, how this issue of Coriolis Force
is far more important to all living things than I suspect even many of us here
have understood. *As, much later at this, the CEO for the manufacturer of
Hanover Trailers here in Bryan, Texas, the actual marketing main vector for the
introduction of all the gooseneck cattle and small utility trailers in all the
USA, I learned lots more, I think. *Notice I said, "I think." *No, the original
gooseneck small utility trailer was originally created by James Batchler of
Throckmorton, Texas, in 1936. *But even as it vectored out into the Hanover
Trailer in the 1940's and mushroomed into tons of other manufacturers, it was
the custom horse trailer versions of this which revealed something else to me
about Coriolis Force.

Yes, I knew the toilet water runs around the bowl one way on the North side of
the Equator up here in the USA. *And the other direction down in Australia.
But I kept getting asked to build trailers for horse owners for more than two
horses with stalls at an angle! *The head of the horse was asked to be toward
the left side of the trailer. *The stall gate was angled back on the right side
so the horses were stalled all with their heads forward and to the left! *Teir
rear ends behind them and to the right. *I asked, "Why?" *I was told, "It's
simple, Mike! *A normal horse is right footed. *If they go to fall, they always
start to put their right front hoof out first to give then the best chance of
handling the situation."

Hmmmmmmmmm. * Interesting. *As a human, do a little research. *I think you will
find that, just as most humans are right-handed, we tend to start walking or
running with our right foot also! *Hmmmmmm. * Interesting. *So I started
looking down into the problem and yes, dogs and cats do to! *Why? *Well, if you
peek down into all this, all vertebrates seem to be right sided, I think.

Duhh .. then why? *I speculate. *Well, if all vertebrate life is somehow
related over all these eons, is this because all current life forms sort of
focus on evolution on the planet from one side of the Equator? *And they swim
looking for food kind of right sided so they don't have to fight the average
Coriolis Force against it for the best chance at eating easiest? *And so on?
And does this really mean that this is really all 'proof' that even the humans
came from what was most efficiently evolving in the march of life traveling the
the fourth dimension that we need? *Even for huge numbers of generations?

And might be even more of an explanation why there is still so much fuss going
on between even very brilliant and skilled engineers who may not even ever see
the real issues of why things seem to be different between them, or the need to
do everything we can to go forward with the least confusion and flanking
amongst us all?

For what is going to become of all this Coriolis Force issue, perhaps, on
December 21, 2012, and who will be in the right doing what for all us humans
and so on at that time?

Chortle!

--

-- Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther

Mike I agree. A bullet has a three dimensional force so that it can
attain a straight line trajectory, the same that a radiated partical
must have for a straight line trajectory.

Bullets arc, they don't go in a straight line. A bullet shot straight
and level will hit the ground at the same time as a bullet dropped from
the same height. That describes an arc that is proportional to the
velocity of the bullet.
,
Correct ,but without spin it will tumble thus a spin force must be
exerted by the rifle barrel
as well as the powder charge



While we're at it, the coriolis force water down the drain difference
between southern and northern hemisphere is an urban myth. While there
can be some effect on the rotation, frictional and initial conditions
are so much greater that the coriolis effect is measurable, but it isn't
the reason the water is going down a certain way.

That is not pertinent to what I have said so I do not want to respond
to that.
Tho I suggest that Einsteins laws of Relativity would shed light on
the matter.
He moved towards relativity because of his failure to determine the
Weak force
when studying radiation.



humans must determine as what can be equal and opposite. With in the
earth's boundary we must recognise the existance and the impact of the
Coriolis force in our every day life including the need for spin on a
projectile so that it may attain a straight line trajectory.

Most people believe that the spin on a bullet acts as a Gyroscopic
stabilization. It's not a demonstration of coriolis force. If the bullet
actually were to use the coriolis force, would it not have to be
rotating at a rate equal but opposite? Which of course means that the
rifling on a rifle would need to be opposite between southern and
northern hemispheres, and at the equator would need to have no rifling
at all, or if you used a gun from one of the other hemisphere, the
bullet would have a tendency to either oppose gravity by traveling up,
or would almost immediately slam into the ground.

A space
rocket succumbs to the Coriolis effect by turning slowly while it is
attaining height as well as when it escapes from earths boundary where
it uses centrifugal force or spin.

We turned, not the rocket.

Einsteins laws of relativity apply to that, ie who and where is the
observer?

What I am saying that the spin applied in the Big Bang is present in
any arbitary boundary
which you wish to make in this Universe. If the boundary encircles
earth then the external forces must equal the internal forces. In the
case of earth the outer forces consists of both gravity and the
Coriolis force the latter being one of spin.One cannot survive in this
Universe without the other. Thus if you zoom in to a smaller boundary
there must always be a component (vector) of shear (spin) inside that
smaller boundary
to neutralize the Coriolis force per the laws of Newton. If one wishes
to draw a boundary around a accelerating charge as in radiation then
again one must apply both a straight vector and one of spin. This is
exactly the boundary case when a particle at rest on a diamagnetic
surface for the acceleration of charge which are consistent with the
vectors outside the boundary otherwise equilibrium is not in place.






Radio is in the stage of two dimension the same as the human race when
they stated man was never meant to fly purely because they object to
change of the existing perspectives
as Gallilao found out to his cost among others.

Most folks believe that the coriolis force is applied in instances of
inertia, and not from an identifiable source, so an antenna, which is
radiating a non-accelerating EM radiation with an inertial point of
reference, isn't affected by such.

* * * * - 73 de Mike -

Corriolis force
 

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
It seems that some do not understand what the Corriolis force is so
here goes
When the Big Bang ocurred all energy was in an arbitrary boundary

that's enough... the rest is just more blabbering. first, spell it right,
its Coriolis with one r.
next, its not even a 'real' force, and is often called the Coriolis 'effect'
instead of force to make that clear. and it is not linked to gravity, its
linked to rotation. if the earth or any other body didn't rotate there
would be no Coriolis effect on it's surface and it would still have gravity.
I'm not even going to try to address the electro-weak babble, that is
totally non-sequitar.

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 3, 2:50*pm, Bill wrote:
On Sep 3, 11:33*am, Art Unwin wrote:



I am ... exposing the so called self perceived experts on this
group to the outside world and I enjoy every bit of it. *The talking
heads have no idea of the silent readers
that are laughing at you and your ignorance.

At least Chip Cohen's imaginary supporters would actually post from
AOL.
Is Art or Chip the crazier one?

Well Dr Cohen (chip) gave up in trying educate the psuedo experts of
his findings because
this group was not interested in change. So he took of and started a
company, obtained contracts from the military and is making money.
Crazy like a fox I would say. Same went
with a lot of experts who were driven away from this group in the
past. For me I am having a great time putting the so called experts on
stage so the world can judge their contents.

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 3, 10:33*am, Art Unwin wrote:

These same two vectors that create a shearing force is equal to the
combination of gravity and the Coriolis force. This is *the reason why
a vertical antenna must be tipped to form a isotropic radiation
pattern in equilibrium which computer programs confirm. No, the above
is not printed any where in the College books, but it will.
No information you say? It is just that you can't handle it so you
depend on insults.
Yes, you did get information but you have not the grounding to
understand what you read.

You don't have the grounding to understand what you write.
If you do, you totally ignore it.
You were a mechanical engineer working at G.E. Your status
as an expert in RF theory are in question. Heck, you can't even
correctly spell half the terms you mention.
Like the above jibber jabber.. How in the heck are you going to
get **ANY** vertical radiator to have a truly isotropic pattern?
It's impossible. An isotropic pattern is a theoretical pattern
in which radiation is equal in all directions. Such a pattern
does not exist with real antennas. But, yea, you are truly
one "grounded" individual.. :/ Chortle...
It would be pathetic if the dog and pony show were not
so hilarious. I do greatly look forward to your posts. Better than
the comedy channel any day.
Corriolis force as thread title.. Chortle.. You claim to be
an expert at this phenomenon, yet you can't even spell
the word correctly. :/
And I imagine that there are still many readers world wide
who are still wondering what constitutes "equilibrium" in
an antenna system. :(



No. I am just exposing the so called self perceived experts on this
group to the outside world and I enjoy every bit of it. *The talking
heads have no idea of the silent readers
that are laughing at you and your ignorance.

And visa versa I have no doubt whatsoever..
I actually believe you have more cult followers
than you realize. You are a hoot.
Might as well just "sticky" a permanent thread
called "The Art Unwin Show" so everyone can
keep on the same page with the latest state of
the Art.

Corriolis force
 

Corriolis force
 

tom wrote:

I hope someone is keeping a record of what he's saying so that it can be
analyzed and turned into a babblegaff generator.


Yes, babblegaff, bafflegab has nothing to compare.

tom
K0TAR

Corriolis force
 

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:11:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

How in the heck are you going to
get **ANY** vertical radiator to have a truly isotropic pattern?
It's impossible. An isotropic pattern is a theoretical pattern
in which radiation is equal in all directions. Such a pattern
does not exist with real antennas.

A real isotropic radiator may not exist, but one can get fairly close.
If you believe the model, the total error is 0.44 db. See:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/isotropic/index.html
The NEC2 deck is under the photo labeled "main".

I once built one of these antennas on roughly 444MHz out of cardboard
and magnet wire. The oscillator was a small crystal can oscillator
running from a 9V battery to avoid having the feed coax wrecking the
pattern. The impedance was nowhere near 50 ohms and required a bit of
matching to get the VSWR down. I'm now digging for the photos.

I used a piece of string to maintain a constant radius, a tiny pickup
loop at the end of a length of coax cable running inline with the
string, and eventually going to my antique HP spectrum analyzer. On
the 2dB/div scale, it was a fairly good approximation of an isotropic
radiator with errors mostly caused by indoor reflections and
interference with the bench.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Corriolis force
 

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:11:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

How in the heck are you going to
get **ANY** vertical radiator to have a truly isotropic pattern?
It's impossible. An isotropic pattern is a theoretical pattern
in which radiation is equal in all directions. Such a pattern
does not exist with real antennas.

A real isotropic radiator may not exist, but one can get fairly close.
If you believe the model, the total error is 0.44 db. See:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/isotropic/index.html
The NEC2 deck is under the photo labeled "main".

I once built one of these antennas on roughly 444MHz out of cardboard
and magnet wire. The oscillator was a small crystal can oscillator
running from a 9V battery to avoid having the feed coax wrecking the
pattern. The impedance was nowhere near 50 ohms and required a bit of
matching to get the VSWR down. I'm now digging for the photos.

I used a piece of string to maintain a constant radius, a tiny pickup
loop at the end of a length of coax cable running inline with the
string, and eventually going to my antique HP spectrum analyzer. On
the 2dB/div scale, it was a fairly good approximation of an isotropic
radiator with errors mostly caused by indoor reflections and
interference with the bench.



Nice. The 3d pic is impressive.

tom
K0TAR

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 3, 10:29*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:11:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
How in the heck are you going to
get **ANY** vertical radiator to have a truly isotropic pattern?
It's impossible. An isotropic pattern is a theoretical pattern
in which radiation is equal in all directions. Such a pattern
does not exist with real antennas.

A real isotropic radiator may not exist, but one can get fairly close.
If you believe the model, the total error is 0.44 db. *See:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/isotropic/index.html
The NEC2 deck is under the photo labeled "main".

I once built one of these antennas on roughly 444MHz out of cardboard
and magnet wire. *The oscillator was a small crystal can oscillator
running from a 9V battery to avoid having the feed coax wrecking the
pattern. *The impedance was nowhere near 50 ohms and required a bit of
matching to get the VSWR down. *I'm now digging for the photos. *

I used a piece of string to maintain a constant radius, a tiny pickup
loop at the end of a length of coax cable running inline with the
string, and eventually going to my antique HP spectrum analyzer. *On
the 2dB/div scale, it was a fairly good approximation of an isotropic
radiator with errors mostly caused by indoor reflections and
interference with the bench. *

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
#http://802.11junk.com* * * * * * *
#http://www.LearnByDestroying.com* * * * * * * AE6KS

You cannot assume that one who makes an accusation has the status of
education to match his veracity. The person who stated that it is an
impossibility does not even posses a high school diploma. Climbing on
the back of his statements puts you back on the stage again!

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 3, 6:14*pm, "Dave" wrote:
"Art Unwin" wrote in message

...

It seems that some do not understand what the Corriolis force is so
an find the here goes
When the Big Bang ocurred all energy was in *an arbitrary boundary

that's enough... the rest is just more blabbering. *first, spell it right,
its Coriolis with one r.
next, its not even a 'real' force, and is often called the Coriolis 'effect'
instead of force to make that clear. *and it is not linked to gravity, its
linked to rotation. *if the earth or any other body didn't rotate there
would be no Coriolis effect on it's surface and it would still have gravity.
I'm not even going to try to address the electro-weak babble, that is
totally non-sequitar.

David, you can find the famous "exclusion principle" by Wolfgang Pauli
in any
book on Quantum Mechanics. You should write a paper on where he weny
wrong based on your intuition. That gun you are firing is getting
lower and lower that I fear for your foot !

Corriolis force
 

On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 23:01:30 -0500, tom wrote:

http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/isotropic/index.html

Nice. The 3d pic is impressive.
tom
K0TAR

Thanks, but the design is not mine. I think it came with a 4NEC2
samples collection, MiniNEC, or possibly with one of the other antenna
modeling packages. I've got them all muddled together so I can't
easily determine the source. I don't think I made any changes to the
model. Mostly, all I did was package the results into something
presentable on a web page. (Note: I tried to convince Ari to add a
web page creation feature to 4NEC2, but failed).

Incidentally, I has some illusion of using the isotropic approximation
antenna as a gain reference antenna. I know there are other reference
antenna designs that are more suitable, but I thought it would be an
interesting exercise. I also built one for 2.4GHz, which was a total
failure.

Drivel: Isotropic antenna patents:

"Spherical antennas having isotropic radiation patterns"
http://www.google.com/patents?id=--I2AAAAEBAJ

"Isotropic antenna system and notebook computer"
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=M2UOAAAAEBAJ
Using multiple antennas to get a reasonably hemispherical pattern on a
laptop.

"Omnidirectional isotropic antenna"
http://www.google.com/patents?id=VQcYAAAAEBAJ
Uses a microwave lens fed by wavguide. Pattern is roughly
hemispherical.

"Near-isotropic low-profile microstrip radiator especially suited for
use as mobile vehicle antenna"
http://www.google.com/patents?id=wNE5AAAAEBAJ

"Near isotropic circularly polarized antenna"
http://www.google.com/patents?id=saMgAAAAEBAJ

etc.... plenty more found with a search for "isotropic antenna". Of
course, isotropic antennas don't really exist. Therefore all the
patents must be science fiction.

Incidentally, I'm still scratching my rapidly depilating head about
your answers to my question about antenna resonance. However, I wanna
do some more reading before demonstrating my ignorance on the subject
and making a fool of myself. Real-soon-now.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Corriolis force
 

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:09:37 -0700 (PDT), Art Unwin
wrote:

You cannot assume that one who makes an accusation has the status of
education to match his veracity. The person who stated that it is an
impossibility does not even posses a high school diploma. Climbing on
the back of his statements puts you back on the stage again!

Hint: Please feel free to attack a persons ideas, logic, conclusions,
data, information, assertions, assumptions, pontifications, judgment,
and numbers. This is proper for a technical discussion. However,
attacking a persons background, education, personality, appearance,
and wallpaper is little better than a character assassination and
should be avoided. Discuss the ideas, not the person.

That being said, I've learned as much from those without the proper
credentials, than from those with the requisite degrees and
certifications. Hands on experience and Learn By Destroying(tm) are
amazingly good teachers.

Also, I judge people mostly by their willingness and ability to learn.
When learning stops, one rots in place and eventually withers. What
have you learned from this discussion on your Gaussian Radiative
Cluster?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 3, 10:29*pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:11:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
How in the heck are you going to
get **ANY** vertical radiator to have a truly isotropic pattern?
It's impossible. An isotropic pattern is a theoretical pattern
in which radiation is equal in all directions. Such a pattern
does not exist with real antennas.

A real isotropic radiator may not exist, but one can get fairly close.
If you believe the model, the total error is 0.44 db. *See:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/isotropic/index.html
The NEC2 deck is under the photo labeled "main".

I once built one of these antennas on roughly 444MHz out of cardboard
and magnet wire. *The oscillator was a small crystal can oscillator
running from a 9V battery to avoid having the feed coax wrecking the
pattern. *The impedance was nowhere near 50 ohms and required a bit of
matching to get the VSWR down. *I'm now digging for the photos. *

I used a piece of string to maintain a constant radius, a tiny pickup
loop at the end of a length of coax cable running inline with the
string, and eventually going to my antique HP spectrum analyzer. *On
the 2dB/div scale, it was a fairly good approximation of an isotropic
radiator with errors mostly caused by indoor reflections and
interference with the bench. *


Sure, you can get fairly close to isotropic with the right
system, but how are you going to do it by tipping a
vertical? The likely results do not fit my idea of isotropic.

Corriolis force
 

U¿ytkownik napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
On Sep 3, 10:29 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:11:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
How in the heck are you going to
get **ANY** vertical radiator to have a truly isotropic pattern?
It's impossible. An isotropic pattern is a theoretical pattern
in which radiation is equal in all directions. Such a pattern
does not exist with real antennas.

A real isotropic radiator may not exist, but one can get fairly close.
If you believe the model, the total error is 0.44 db. See:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/isotropic/index.html
The NEC2 deck is under the photo labeled "main".

I once built one of these antennas on roughly 444MHz out of cardboard
and magnet wire. The oscillator was a small crystal can oscillator
running from a 9V battery to avoid having the feed coax wrecking the
pattern. The impedance was nowhere near 50 ohms and required a bit of
matching to get the VSWR down. I'm now digging for the photos.

I used a piece of string to maintain a constant radius, a tiny pickup
loop at the end of a length of coax cable running inline with the
string, and eventually going to my antique HP spectrum analyzer. On
the 2dB/div scale, it was a fairly good approximation of an isotropic
radiator with errors mostly caused by indoor reflections and
interference with the bench.


Sure, you can get fairly close to isotropic with the right
system, but how are you going to do it by tipping a
vertical? The likely results do not fit my idea of isotropic.

"An isotropic radiator is a theoretical point source of waves which exhibits
the same magnitude or properties when measured in all directions".
The only way to make the real point source is the proper tipping. Of course
it must be a monopole.
S*

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 3, 11:09 pm, Art Unwin wrote:


You cannot assume that one who makes an accusation has the status of
education to match his veracity. The person who stated that it is an
impossibility does not even posses a high school diploma. Climbing on
the back of his statements puts you back on the stage again!

Does not matter what education I started out with. They don't
teach antenna theory until college level anyway.
Being as you didn't take those courses in college either,
being a mechanical engineer, I don't see how you have any
real leg up on me at all as far as antenna theory.
You had to learn it on your own, same as I did.
You probably had a decent leg up in math at one time,
but you seem so senile now, I doubt it does you any good. :/
You don't seem to exercise the skill.. You hardly ever give out
any math to support any of your theories.

All of my antenna education has been self administered, and for all
you know, I might have eclipsed you years ago. You have no way of
really knowing unless someone gave us a test.
Heck, you went to college, and I was expelled from high school,
but as I general rule, I spell better than you do.
Not perfect, but I bet my rate of error is a good bit lower than
yours.

How do you explain that? And if that is the case, how can we be
sure that your lofty college education in mechanical engineering is
actually helping you to rise above that nasty ole dumbass NM5K
when it comes to antenna talk?

There are many here that know much more than I do, but as
far as I can tell, you ain't one of them. :/
You can telling a fetching yarn to reel em in, but when it comes to
producing the real goods, you vanish every time after a mind numbing
barrage of pure baffle gab.

Most of my antenna work is with real antennas in the real world.
I don't spend much time letting modeling programs run wild, and
then proclaim that the resulting designs they spit out require new
baffle gab theory to explain their operation.

So it's not really required that I be some rocket scientist here.
I'm not the one having to defend baffle gab.

But you on the other hand propose that you are going to rewrite the
books with your new theories.
And that most everyone here, except you of course, is a dribbling
idiot
not to swallow everything you say, hook, equilibrium, and weak force.
Being that is the case, I'd be a lot more worried about your education
than mine if I were you.
You are the one that needs to prove your case, not I.

Corriolis force
 

wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 11:09 pm, Art Unwin wrote:


You cannot assume that one who makes an accusation has the status of
education to match his veracity. The person who stated that it is an
impossibility does not even posses a high school diploma. Climbing on
the back of his statements puts you back on the stage again!

Does not matter what education I started out with. They don't
teach antenna theory until college level anyway.
Being as you didn't take those courses in college either,
being a mechanical engineer, I don't see how you have any
real leg up on me at all as far as antenna theory.
You had to learn it on your own, same as I did.
You probably had a decent leg up in math at one time,
but you seem so senile now, I doubt it does you any good. :/
You don't seem to exercise the skill.. You hardly ever give out
any math to support any of your theories.

All of my antenna education has been self administered, and for all
you know, I might have eclipsed you years ago. You have no way of
really knowing unless someone gave us a test.
Heck, you went to college, and I was expelled from high school,
but as I general rule, I spell better than you do.
Not perfect, but I bet my rate of error is a good bit lower than
yours.

How do you explain that? And if that is the case, how can we be
sure that your lofty college education in mechanical engineering is
actually helping you to rise above that nasty ole dumbass NM5K
when it comes to antenna talk?

There are many here that know much more than I do, but as
far as I can tell, you ain't one of them. :/
You can telling a fetching yarn to reel em in, but when it comes to
producing the real goods, you vanish every time after a mind numbing
barrage of pure baffle gab.

Most of my antenna work is with real antennas in the real world.
I don't spend much time letting modeling programs run wild, and
then proclaim that the resulting designs they spit out require new
baffle gab theory to explain their operation.

So it's not really required that I be some rocket scientist here.
I'm not the one having to defend baffle gab.

But you on the other hand propose that you are going to rewrite the
books with your new theories.
And that most everyone here, except you of course, is a dribbling
idiot
not to swallow everything you say, hook, equilibrium, and weak force.
Being that is the case, I'd be a lot more worried about your education
than mine if I were you.
You are the one that needs to prove your case, not I.

Well put.

Corriolis force
 

On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 00:56:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Sure, you can get fairly close to isotropic with the right
system, but how are you going to do it by tipping a
vertical? The likely results do not fit my idea of isotropic.

I forgot to connect my comments to the original question. Sorry(tm).
You're correct. There's no way to get a good isotropic radiator
pattern with a simple vertical radiator. However, you can still get
fairly close if you make the antenna sufficiently small relative to
the operating wavelength. As the physical antenna size approaches a
point radiator, the pattern starts to look rather spherical.
Unfortunately, the gain drops, efficiency drops, and feed point
impedance drops, resulting in a rather inferior antenna.

There's also a question of how close to perfection does the spherical
pattern need to become? Within 0.1dB, 1dB, 3dB, etc???? Offhand, I
would guess anything within a few dB of spherical could be considered
isotropic, as in all the patents I noted.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Corriolis force
 

wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 10:33 am, Art Unwin wrote:
And I imagine that there are still many readers world wide
who are still wondering what constitutes "equilibrium" in
an antenna system. :(

not any more, he defined it just the other day, equilibrium==isotropic.

Corriolis force
 

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

"An isotropic radiator is a theoretical point source of waves which
exhibits the same magnitude or properties when measured in all
directions".
The only way to make the real point source is the proper tipping. Of
course it must be a monopole.

another blabbering idiot chiming in... a monopole can't have the same
properties in all directions since it is linear, no matter how much you tip
it!

Corriolis force
 

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 6:14 pm, "Dave" wrote:
David, you can find the famous "exclusion principle" by Wolfgang Pauli
in any book on Quantum Mechanics.

ah, bringing the Pauli Exclusion Principle in on the discusion now, that is
a new one i think... can we now not have any of your magical levitating
diamagnetic neutrinos on an antenna in the same quantum states??

Corriolis force
 

Dave wrote:

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
...
On Sep 3, 6:14 pm, "Dave" wrote:
David, you can find the famous "exclusion principle" by Wolfgang Pauli
in any book on Quantum Mechanics.

ah, bringing the Pauli Exclusion Principle in on the discusion now, that
is a new one i think... can we now not have any of your magical
levitating diamagnetic neutrinos on an antenna in the same quantum states??

Drum roll........

From the department of everything you knew about physics is wrong
department......


The Coriolis effect upon RF radiation has some interesting other
ramifications.
Since Coriolis affects radio waves, it follows that gravity also affects
radio waves. This bring up a new and much simplified explanation for
radio propagation. As the RF spins away from the antenna, the coriolis
effect and gravity eventually pull the signal back to earth far away
from the originating point. I always thought that that silly stuff about
atmospheric layers and ionization was kind of dum anyhow.

Each time the RF hits the earth, a new point of reference is made, and
the signal bounces up with a new twist to it.

We're still working on why UHF + signals don't do this. Maybe their
twist is going the other way, so instead of coming back down, they spin
upwards never to be seen again.


- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 4, 3:37Â*am, Szczepan BiaÅ‚ek wrote:
U¿ytkownik napisa³ w ...
On Sep 3, 10:29 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:



On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:11:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
How in the heck are you going to
get **ANY** vertical radiator to have a truly isotropic pattern?
It's impossible. An isotropic pattern is a theoretical pattern
in which radiation is equal in all directions. Such a pattern
does not exist with real antennas.

A real isotropic radiator may not exist, but one can get fairly close.
If you believe the model, the total error is 0.44 db. See:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/isotropic/index.html
The NEC2 deck is under the photo labeled "main".

I once built one of these antennas on roughly 444MHz out of cardboard
and magnet wire. The oscillator was a small crystal can oscillator
running from a 9V battery to avoid having the feed coax wrecking the
pattern. The impedance was nowhere near 50 ohms and required a bit of
matching to get the VSWR down. I'm now digging for the photos.

I used a piece of string to maintain a constant radius, a tiny pickup
loop at the end of a length of coax cable running inline with the
string, and eventually going to my antique HP spectrum analyzer. On
the 2dB/div scale, it was a fairly good approximation of an isotropic
radiator with errors mostly caused by indoor reflections and
interference with the bench.

Sure, you can get fairly close to isotropic with the right

system, but how are you going to do it by tipping a
vertical? Â*The likely results do not fit my idea of isotropic.

"An isotropic radiator is a theoretical point source of waves which exhibits
the same magnitude or properties when measured in all directions".
The only way to make the real point source is the proper tipping. Of course
it must be a monopole.
S*

Excellent. I am so happy that somebody out there is not following the
pied pipers of denial.
Thanks for your input.

Corriolis force
 

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 00:56:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Sure, you can get fairly close to isotropic with the right
system, but how are you going to do it by tipping a
vertical? The likely results do not fit my idea of isotropic.

I forgot to connect my comments to the original question. Sorry(tm).
You're correct. There's no way to get a good isotropic radiator
pattern with a simple vertical radiator. However, you can still get
fairly close if you make the antenna sufficiently small relative to
the operating wavelength. As the physical antenna size approaches a
point radiator, the pattern starts to look rather spherical.


That doesn't sound right. The directivity gain of an infinitesimal electric
doublet (i.e. a dipole with infinitesimal length) is about 0.4 dB less than
that of a half-wave dipole. Its similar lemniscate-of-rotation radiation
pattern results from the symmetry about its axis. The results for monopoles
derived from these forms of dipole won't be too different. It is rather
obvious that a receiving dipole of any polarisation won't receive much
signal from the end of a transmitting dipole or monopole, however it's
oriented - there's no apparent length over which unopposed current is
flowing so there's no 'moment' in that direction.

One solution to spherical radiation is the Lindenblad array (and variants
that others have chosen to re-name) which presents finite resolved
components of the lengths of some of its dipoles in all directions ... but
the tilt of the elements has nothing at all to do with Art Unwin's 'theory',
it's simply a matter of making sure there's a resolved component in each
direction. Of course, a Lindenblad designed for a near-omni pattern
achieves this in respect of circular polarisation so it would be
ineffiecient in a system where a linearly polarised antenna is used at the
other end of the link.

I was once told a true isotropic radiator would have to be circularly
polarised because it would be so small that it could contain nothing with a
defined axis of symmetry ... that is, the antenna would have the form of an
infinitesimal sphere. The question then is 'which sense of circular
polarisation' ... which undoubtedly has nothing at all to do with Coriolis
force! The real answer is that it doesn't matter because, as you mentioned
(below) such an antenna has an infinitesimally small radiation resistance
and cannot be made to radiate.

Chris



Unfortunately, the gain drops, efficiency drops, and feed point
impedance drops, resulting in a rather inferior antenna.

There's also a question of how close to perfection does the spherical
pattern need to become? Within 0.1dB, 1dB, 3dB, etc???? Offhand, I
would guess anything within a few dB of spherical could be considered
isotropic, as in all the patents I noted.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 4, 9:33*am, Michael Coslo wrote:
Dave wrote:

"Art Unwin" wrote in message
....
On Sep 3, 6:14 pm, "Dave" wrote:
David, you can find the famous "exclusion principle" by Wolfgang Pauli
in any book on Quantum Mechanics.

ah, bringing the Pauli Exclusion Principle in on the discusion now, that
is a new one i think... can we now not have any of your magical
levitating diamagnetic neutrinos on an antenna in the same quantum states??

Drum roll........

*From the department of everything you knew about physics is wrong
department......

The Coriolis effect upon RF radiation has some interesting other
ramifications.
Since Coriolis affects radio waves, it follows that gravity also affects
radio waves. This bring up a new and much simplified explanation for
radio propagation. As the RF spins away from the antenna, the coriolis
effect and gravity eventually pull the signal back to earth far away
from the originating point. I always thought that that silly stuff about
atmospheric layers and ionization was kind of dum anyhow.

Each time the RF hits the earth, a new point of reference is made, and
the signal bounces up with a new twist to it.

We're still working on why UHF + signals don't do this. Maybe their
twist is going the other way, so instead of coming back down, they spin
upwards never to be seen again.

* * * * - 73 de Mike N3LI -

Mike you forget.
I do not subscribe to the wave theory over the particle aproach.
I cannot see any other way to fit that "radiation is from the
acceleration of a charge". And I can not find any explanation of this
in any books. Only mass is able to have spin and at the same time
transport energy, at least to my mind. Therefore accelaration is the
creation of two forces that are not in the same plain ala a shear
action where the combination of gravity and the Coriolis force are the
weakest forces known in the std model. I would remind you that spin is
a result of a force applied where the reaction force is not in the
same plane, otherwise referred to as torque ala force times distance.
It is quite easy to show that current flow consists of a direct vector
and a circular vector
within a boundary and where a direct vector and a circular vector on
the outside of the boundary creats a condition of equilibrium. This is
just physics per our Universe and now many want to deny physics by
intuition alone. I would also remind everybody that engineering,
electrical, mechanical or what ever is a subset of the subject of
physics where concentration of learning is of a niche of the physics .

Corriolis force
 

In article
, Art
Unwin wrote:

It seems that some do not understand what the Corriolis force is so
here goes
When the Big Bang ocurred all energy was in an arbitrary boundary
just like the Sun is. When the forces ( four forces of the Standard
model) could not be contained with in the boundary the boundary broke
which as scientists state was the begining of our Universe. Before the
arbitrary boundary broke it is a state of equilibrium ( This is also
duplicated by the Sun) You can visualize a ball which contains all
energy by placing vectors all around the inside where for every vector
on the inside there is an equal and opposite on the outside. Tho
energy cannot be created or destroyed, kinetic energy can occur at the
expense of potential energy such that the outside vectors are over
come. The boundary breaks and the excess forces are released until
the boundary is able to return to a state of equilibrium. Now when the
break occurs it is at the point of a particular vector such that the
breakage is created by a shearing action, as the forces in question
was not aligned, with spin. Thus when any energy,particles etc they
escaped with a spin action which force forces to balance requires an
equal and opposite reaction and the Corriolis force is that component.
Without the Corriolis component we could not remain on this Earth and
gravity could not exist. Thus to state spin or torque is not a force
is truly rediculous. Let the insults come.

Art,

Since there is no "" on the subject line I assume you are the initiator
of this post and I have to ask how it's relevant to this newsgroup. You
have also attempted to initiate other off-topic threads. Can't you find a
more appropriate ng or forum for these posts rather than show a disregard
for those coming here to seek info on ham antennas and related issues? At
the very least I would appreciate including the standard "OT:" prefix on
the subject lines of off-topic posts. These kinds of posts illustrate why
moderated newsgroups become necessary. Sincerely, and 73s from N4GGO,

John Wood (Code 5550) e-mail:
Naval Research Laboratory
4555 Overlook Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20375-5337

Corriolis force
 

On Sep 4, 2:49*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:09:37 -0700 (PDT), Art Unwin

wrote:
You cannot assume that one who makes an accusation has the status of
education to match his veracity. The person who stated that it is an
impossibility does not even posses a high school diploma. Climbing on
the back of his statements puts you back on the stage again!

Hint: *Please feel free to attack a persons ideas, logic, conclusions,
data, information, assertions, assumptions, pontifications, judgment,
and numbers. *This is proper for a technical discussion. *However,
attacking a persons background, education, personality, appearance,
and wallpaper is little better than a character assassination and
should be avoided. *Discuss the ideas, not the person.

That being said, I've learned as much from those without the proper
credentials, than from those with the requisite degrees and
certifications. *Hands on experience and Learn By Destroying(tm) are
amazingly good teachers.

Also, I judge people mostly by their willingness and ability to learn.
When learning stops, one rots in place and eventually withers. *What
have you learned from this discussion on your Gaussian Radiative
Cluster?

--
Jeff Liebermann * *
150 Felker St #D * *http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann * * AE6KS * *831-336-2558

I replied to the assertion that my homeland was guilty of embarassment
or shame.

What sort of man is one who does not stand up on behalf of his
homeland where presently their soldiers are standing and dying along
side ours of the U.S.
I am attacked personally daily, but to attack the U.K and the
Commonwealth for declaring war on the German menace, a consequence of
which many gave their lives, is a totally different situation to me.
Hopefully you can understand that and thus allow the matter to drop
without loss of stature
Regards
Art