On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:55:07 +0000, Gaius wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
The problem with todays version of ham radio is that it's really
boring. Nobody wants to talk to someone around the world, when they
can pickup a POTS or cell phone and do it with much less effort and
expense. With the demise of Heathkit, building radios is no longer a
draw. The magic of radio is gone. So, show them what they can do
with radio. Weather stations, APRS, satellite, construction, etc are
a good start.

The magic hasn't gone - it's just been refined.

For someone that's been in the hobby from before I could (legally)
drive a car, the magic is gone. To someone new to the hobby,
communicating with peoples on the other side of the planet is
commonplace. Pickup a cell phone, dial, and talk. There's no magic
in that. In the past, showing potential new hams how it works got an
"amazing" reaction. These days, I get asked "what's all that noise"?
It's no longer a technical hobby, but more like a "radio sport". It's
no longer about building and refining a radio to the bleeding edge of
the state of the art. It's now what you can do with a radio.
Fortunately, there's plenty to do with a radio. I listed a few.
There's plenty more (contesting, CW, boat anchors, xmitter hunts,
microwave, field day, packet, meteor scatter, etc). Plenty to
interest a Jr High Skool brat, but you have to show them first. I
used to worry about overwhelming them. Not any more. I show them in
everything I can find and let them find their own inspiration. Oddly,
the local new hams seem to be coming from the 4-H Organization.

The numbers of
enthusiasts may drop, but those left will be more focussed and
dedicated. The quantity is being replaced by quality.

There was a surge of new hams wanting to use ham radio as a cheap cell
phone. That didn't last, but it sure fattened the various club
treasuries. I'm not sure those remaining are more dedicated. Most of
the radio club members are 50 or more years old. There are younger
members, that also tend to be very technical, but they're disappointed
at the general lack of technical expertise of the older hams. Comments
like "how do you expect to operate a software defined radio without
any programming skills?" are common. I give at least one technical
talk a year to the local clubs. I can tell by the audience's faces
that only a few have a clue what I'm talking about. I passed out about
30 CD's with 4NEC2, EZNEC demo, and a zillion models at one meeting.
I think perhaps 1 or 2 people tried it.

Don't believe the prophets of doom who tell us that ham radio is dead.
They're just pessimists and losers. Ignore them and move on.

I like to think of myself of being part of the solution, rather than
the prophet of doom and despair. Please ignore me and move on.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

tom wrote in
. net:

Gaius wrote:
The magic hasn't gone - it's just been refined. The numbers of
enthusiasts may drop, but those left will be more focussed and
dedicated. The quantity is being replaced by quality. For every ten new
hams who buy an off-the-shelf radio, play with it for a year or two,
then lose interest, there is one in whom the spark is truly lit.
Building is alive and well in the form of QRP. The satisfaction of
operating a TX which is the product of your own efforts and ideas beats
driving a commercial radio any day.

(There is a mirror to all this in the model aircraft hobby. Many now
begin by buying a top-dollar almost-ready-to-fly radio controlled
plane.
All you need is money. Little achievement, little reward, other than
the transient buzz of flying the thing. Same effect - 90 percent drop
out, ten percent go on to greater things: building and designing their
own creations).

Don't believe the prophets of doom who tell us that ham radio is dead.
They're just pessimists and losers. Ignore them and move on.



Correct - The magic hasn't gone. Take 10GHz. A 10 GHz SSB setup can do
well over 200 miles with only 2 watts with an old DSS dish. You can
call CQ in a 10G contest off of a local 30 story building, or even
better - a local rain cloud. The systems are normally built as
transverters from kits. And learning is involved in construction as you
figure out how to interface a 2m SSB rig to a transverter, and where you
find mini hardline, and SMA relays for cheap. Using them teaches the
user a lot about practical microwave propagation.

Interested persons from the Midwest or those from anywhere else check
out www.nlrs.org. We are one of the most active microwave groups in the
US.

tom
K0TAR


Another lively form of ham radio exists where people use Pringles tubes and
such to make small directional relays for RF-based localised internet. While
the TCP protocol comes ready made, the spirit of ham radio is very alive in
the way people coerce a pringles tube into doing these things.

Lostgallifreyan wrote:
Another lively form of ham radio exists where people use Pringles tubes and
such to make small directional relays for RF-based localised internet. While
the TCP protocol comes ready made, the spirit of ham radio is very alive in
the way people coerce a pringles tube into doing these things.

Unfortunately if they are properly made, they are illegal to use in the US
and other places in the world.

The EIRP limit in the US is 1W for portable/mobile and 4W for fixed
(point to point use), a properly made Pringles antenna produces slightly over
4W with 100mW input.

Here it's even worse, the EIRP limit is 100mW, so any gain antenna is
technicaly illegal, though 5dbi ones they are sold here.


It's become IMHO more like the spirit of modifiying CB rigs to transmit and
receive in that little slice of radio spectrum between CB and the 10m ham
band aka "freebanding" than the spirit of lawful, respectful ham radio.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
Lostgallifreyan wrote:
Another lively form of ham radio exists where people use Pringles tubes and
such to make small directional relays for RF-based localised internet. While
the TCP protocol comes ready made, the spirit of ham radio is very alive in
the way people coerce a pringles tube into doing these things.

Unfortunately if they are properly made, they are illegal to use in the US
and other places in the world.

The EIRP limit in the US is 1W for portable/mobile and 4W for fixed
(point to point use), a properly made Pringles antenna produces slightly over
4W with 100mW input.

Here it's even worse, the EIRP limit is 100mW, so any gain antenna is
technicaly illegal, though 5dbi ones they are sold here.


It's become IMHO more like the spirit of modifiying CB rigs to transmit and
receive in that little slice of radio spectrum between CB and the 10m ham
band aka "freebanding" than the spirit of lawful, respectful ham radio.

Geoff.

It is not illegal if it is done on an amateur frequency by a licensed amateur.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

wrote:
It is not illegal if it is done on an amateur frequency by a licensed amateur.

You forgot the words "in the US".

Is using WiFi equipment for ham radio legal?

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:14:04 +0000 (UTC), "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

It is not illegal if it is done on an amateur frequency by a licensed amateur.

You forgot the words "in the US".

Is using WiFi equipment for ham radio legal?

Hi Geoff,

If it is done by a Ham radio operator. Ham radio operators (in the
US) are the ONLY class of radio operation that do NOT have a type
acceptance requirement.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

In article ,
Richard Clark wrote:

It is not illegal if it is done on an amateur frequency by a licensed
amateur.

You forgot the words "in the US".

Is using WiFi equipment for ham radio legal?

Hi Geoff,

If it is done by a Ham radio operator. Ham radio operators (in the
US) are the ONLY class of radio operation that do NOT have a type
acceptance requirement.

There are, of course, certain restrictions.

The 13 cm band privileges for hams in the U.S. are not an exact
overlap for the license-free 802.11b/g frequencies. You can't assert
the use of your ham privileges if you're transmitting on channels not
covered by the ham authorizations.

You must ID properly (often done by setting the ESSID to the ham
callsign).

You may not encrypt the transmission for the purpose of obscuring its
meaning. [Some feel that encryption is permitted for the purpose of
ensuring that the link is used only by licensed hams, or for
"privacy". Some feel that encryption is OK if you make the actual
encryption key publicly available e.g. on a web site.]

If you have a valid U.S. ham license, and respect all of these (and
other) Part 97 ham restrictions, then you can legally use commercial
WiFi gear to transmit on these frequencies. Under those conditions,
you can use as much power as Part 97 will allow... the Part 15 rules
do not apply.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Jeff Liebermann wrote:


For someone that's been in the hobby from before I could (legally)
drive a car, the magic is gone.

For you, it is perhaps. Not for me.


To someone new to the hobby,
communicating with peoples on the other side of the planet is
commonplace.

Has been for years.


Pickup a cell phone, dial, and talk. There's no magic
in that.

I remember making telephone calls to other countries when I was a little
kid in the 60's. The Transatlantic cable was laid in the mid 19th
century. People could talk a long way away then too. Worldwide
communications pre-dates radio communications. It's a matter of
infrastructure.

some snippage

I like to think of myself of being part of the solution, rather than
the prophet of doom and despair. Please ignore me and move on.

Not trying to bust your chops or anything, Jeff, but if you have no more
magic in you for Ham radio, its going to be really hard being part of
the solution.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
wrote:
It is not illegal if it is done on an amateur frequency by a licensed amateur.

You forgot the words "in the US".

Is using WiFi equipment for ham radio legal?


For lack of a better word, yes.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

In article ,
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:

Unfortunately if they are properly made, they are illegal to use in the US
and other places in the world.

Not for a Hams in the USA, with a Tech or higher License, on the Ham
portion of the 2.4 Ghz band... We can use up to 1 Kw output power, not
in a Pringles can, but with the appropriate Feedhorn, and an old 8 ft
TVRO Dish, Moon bounce is a very real activity. It is the Tracking
Hardware that gets expensive.... that and the 2.4 Ghz TWT's.....