Richard Clark wrote:
For 160M band, I would REALLY look for the Archer and put my effort

into that prospect. A low loop is the pits - hi Z, lo Z, balanced,
unbalanced, SWR, no SWR hardly counts for diddly.

OK, the 540' loop will be up as high as I can get it with these telescoping
masts, somewhere between 45-55 feet at each corner. How will this be for
bands other than 160m (either with the Johnson or my Kenwood ATU (+current
type balun)? As mentioned I have the real estate to try several antennas
here. I am curious to find out how the loop will work. I only call it 160m
because of the length of the wire. There were a handful of websites
expressing enthusiasm about this antenna.

Another plan is some kind of antenna on a rotator. Any ideas of how to
engineer some kind of beam (light-weight) or something similar atop one of
these 50' telescoping tv masts? If I am to telescope 4 - ten foot sections,
the antenna and rotator would have to be light. I would have to engineer this
with a crew of buddies holding the guy ropes as the stong person is up ten
feet trying to push up this whole thing into the air a section at a time.
Anyone done this? The motivation here is 1) I have the 50 mast, so economy is
a factor, and 2) the result will look more like some kind of elaborate tv
antenna. A tower out in the front yard might be a bit much in the
neighborhood at this point. I need to test these waters first.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:33:03 GMT, zeno wrote:
OK, the 540' loop will be up as high as I can get it with these telescoping
masts, somewhere between 45-55 feet at each corner. How will this be for
bands other than 160m (either with the Johnson or my Kenwood ATU (+current
type balun)? As mentioned I have the real estate to try several antennas
here.

Hi Bill,

Above 80M it should be gangbusters. However, you may wish to look
into Rhombic designs given the vast footprint available to you to
experiment with. This will be more directional, more gain for the 30M
bands and above, so you will want to investigate what direction that
should be (don't guess using a flat map either). It would be roughly
the same shape, only more diamond than haphazard square. Such a
design shouldn't hurt your 160M loop prospects, but would optimize the
higher bands (where formerly you were just going to take what came
with the turf).

With a lot more wire (and work), you could get into the Fish Bone
Array, or a wire Log Periodic Array. Both would, again, be fixed
direction so planning ahead is again seen in the XTAL ball.

I am curious to find out how the loop will work. I only call it 160m
because of the length of the wire. There were a handful of websites
expressing enthusiasm about this antenna.

What choice did they have? Such is the fallacy of testimonial. As
the saying goes, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a
nail.

Another plan is some kind of antenna on a rotator. Any ideas of how to
engineer some kind of beam (light-weight) or something similar atop one of
these 50' telescoping tv masts?

That would have to be WARC bands and 10M, probably; otherwise you are
dreaming in technicolor and surround-sound.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Richard,

Above 80M it should be gangbusters. However, you may wish to look
into Rhombic designs given the vast footprint available to you to
experiment with. This will be more directional, more gain for the 30M
bands and above, so you will want to investigate what direction that
should be (don't guess using a flat map either). It would be roughly
the same shape, only more diamond than haphazard square. Such a
design shouldn't hurt your 160M loop prospects, but would optimize the
higher bands (where formerly you were just going to take what came
with the turf).


Although I have the acres (7) there are a lot of buildings (old barns etc.),
trees, etc. My antenna planning has to dodge many many obstacles actually. This
is an old chicken ranch and there are building everywhere, then all the trees.
Are you saying that a rhombic could be put up on the same masts more or less
(only one of the masts is potentially moveable, meaning that it would only be
diamond like at one end of the trapezoid. This rhombic would be instead of the
540' loop?

I will look up rhombic in the books and see what gives.



With a lot more wire (and work), you could get into the Fish Bone
Array, or a wire Log Periodic Array. Both would, again, be fixed

I will look these up as well. I don't want to get so complex and over my head
that I will be overwhelmed. Now that I have the call sign of choice, I am ready
to rock and roll.....

-Bill (aka Zeno)

Hey I got it!!! I am now K6TAJ, Tango Alpha Juliet. The old bongo drummer morse
code tapper in me is tickled DAH, DI-DAH, DI-DAH-DAH-DAH is so cool for me for
a variety of esoteric reasons, aside from the fact that it is fun to tap out.
My second choice was my 1953 call K6CCG (also fun to tap, but not as fun as
TAJ, the new call is shorter as well), also I like tango alpha juliet more than
charlie charlie golf.....I don't really own any checkered pants.....

I actually found myself listed in an old 1958 call book, which actually was the
year my old Tech ran out.....

Hopefully I can make up for lost time......

73

Bill, K6TAJ

zeno wrote:
Hey I got it!!! I am now K6TAJ, Tango Alpha Juliet.

Now we will have an endless thread of words to match your
TLA (three letter acronym). Transmitting All Joules?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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for starters a good contest alternative: Toronto Alaska Japan

and for the hometown crew: Tasty Apricot Jelly or Typical Antique
Junk

Cecil Moore wrote:

zeno wrote:
Hey I got it!!! I am now K6TAJ, Tango Alpha Juliet.

Now we will have an endless thread of words to match your
TLA (three letter acronym). Transmitting All Joules?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:47:47 GMT, zeno wrote:
Although I have the acres (7) there are a lot of buildings (old barns etc.),
trees, etc. My antenna planning has to dodge many many obstacles actually. This
is an old chicken ranch and there are building everywhere, then all the trees.
Are you saying that a rhombic could be put up on the same masts more or less
(only one of the masts is potentially moveable, meaning that it would only be
diamond like at one end of the trapezoid. This rhombic would be instead of the
540' loop?

I will look up rhombic in the books and see what gives.

Hi Bill,

No, this time shape matters as it is a function of all angles of
radiation combining to ADD rather than jumble. Again, think in terms
of the supports/mast merely being the outer, irregular perimeter to an
ordered interior antenna shape.

The Rhombic would BE the 540' loop. Normally it is open or terminated
at the end opposite the feed point, but having the shape anticipated
is more the work than this simple change. (It has the same feed
considerations, complete with your expected twin lead.)

Congrats on your desired call.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

The problem, as I see it, with using the fixed masts as outside perimeter
configuration support structure for the specifically ordered interior shape is the
sag the inevitably occurs when wire is a rope and pulley distance away from the
supporting mast. I already see this with the tree supported antenna. The ropes drop
down and the wire is 8' or so lower than anticipated. This seems critical when the
masts are only 50' to begin with. How high, or shouls I say, what is the minimum
height for an acceptable Rhombic?

Bill, K6TAJ

Richard Clark wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:47:47 GMT, zeno wrote:
Although I have the acres (7) there are a lot of buildings (old barns etc.),
trees, etc. My antenna planning has to dodge many many obstacles actually. This
is an old chicken ranch and there are building everywhere, then all the trees.
Are you saying that a rhombic could be put up on the same masts more or less
(only one of the masts is potentially moveable, meaning that it would only be
diamond like at one end of the trapezoid. This rhombic would be instead of the
540' loop?

I will look up rhombic in the books and see what gives.

Hi Bill,

No, this time shape matters as it is a function of all angles of
radiation combining to ADD rather than jumble. Again, think in terms
of the supports/mast merely being the outer, irregular perimeter to an
ordered interior antenna shape.

The Rhombic would BE the 540' loop. Normally it is open or terminated
at the end opposite the feed point, but having the shape anticipated
is more the work than this simple change. (It has the same feed
considerations, complete with your expected twin lead.)

Congrats on your desired call.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 00:20:50 GMT, zeno wrote:
The problem, as I see it, with using the fixed masts as outside perimeter
configuration support structure for the specifically ordered interior shape is the
sag the inevitably occurs when wire is a rope and pulley distance away from the
supporting mast. I already see this with the tree supported antenna. The ropes drop
down and the wire is 8' or so lower than anticipated. This seems critical when the
masts are only 50' to begin with. How high, or shouls I say, what is the minimum
height for an acceptable Rhombic?

Hi Bill,

Think positively: how high will they be? 40 Feet? 10 Meters? One
quarter wave for 40M? This is not a hardship case. One half wave or
better high for 20M and above? No one's gonna let you cry in your
beer there either. And now for the classic "testimonial": it's gonna
be boomin! (what choice do you have?).

As a cautionary, don't try to pull out the catenary. The tension
rises with the tangent of the of the deflection angle. If you could
achieve perfect flatness, a breeze would snap the line.

73's Richard Clark, KB7QHC

zeno wrote:
Another plan is some kind of antenna on a rotator. Any ideas of how to
engineer some kind of beam (light-weight) or something similar atop one of
these 50' telescoping tv masts?

Check out Worldradio's SD-20 systems at http://www.wr6wr.com
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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roger, tnx Ceece.

I apologize for the Beany reference....I am just elated at getting k6taj.

Cecil Moore wrote:

zeno wrote:
Another plan is some kind of antenna on a rotator. Any ideas of how to
engineer some kind of beam (light-weight) or something similar atop one of
these 50' telescoping tv masts?

Check out Worldradio's SD-20 systems at http://www.wr6wr.com
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

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