Cecil Moore wrote:

Mark Keith wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
W2DU choke, virtually lossless. The tuning cap is also virtually
lossless, much more so than a tuner with a coil.

Won't this depend on the match involved? I have trouble seeing that
connection as "virtually lossless".

I feed all my antennas at a low resistance current maximum point so the
W2DU choke is indeed virtually lossless and fully functional to boot
because it is seeing its designed-for resistance. You would know that
if you took time off from your prejudice position to actually think. :-)

How many others feed theirs this way? How would I know how yours would
vary from the "usual G5RV"?


If it's not enough to notice on the air, doesn't your entire point
evaporate into nothingness?

No. That is only comparing using coax to ladder line with no other
considerations given.

If no one notices whether an antenna is
resonant or not or fed with coax or open-wire line, what is the point
of your argument?

Because I DO notice the difference between a coax fed dipole and either
a G5RV or the usual "windom" that is sold by "eastern state antenna co.
inc"

Why? I've already done it. I don't need those numbers to help make up
my mind. I've compared the real antennas. I'll never change my mind.

That's pretty obvious and is a trait shared by the Catholic Priests who
condemned Copernicus and Galileo. I believe you will never change your
mind even if you come over to my house and see scientific evidence to the
contrary. It's a good thing human lifespans are so short or else the human
race would never make any technical progress.

Cecil, you might have a modified G5RV that is fairly usable, but most of
the ones that are actually sold, and are in use, are lame 80m antennas
to my standards. Same for the average windom, or OCF dipole. This is
not idle speculation. I've A/B compared them at field days. I started
doing this after getting stuck on G5RV's on 80m for two years in a row.
"What torture..I almost pulled my hair out ..."
The owner of one windom I tested against had no idea what he was losing
until I showed him. He almost fell over at the 2-3 S unit differences we
saw when flipping the switch... To answer one earlier question for you,
my feedline loss at 4 mhz is .4 db for 100 ft of line at the most. Other
than my ground loss, which will be the same for either types of
antennas, for all practical purposes I have no loss.
You can not detect .4 db difference in the real world on 80m. And being
I'll be at 3.500, it will be slightly less. And if I don't use the full
100ft, it will be even less.
When directly comparing the coax fed dipole to the commonly used
"windom" that is sold by said ESA inc., the dipole was better on all
signals , including just the atmospheric noise floor by a min of 2 S
units. This increase is not pattern related. It's purely a difference in
feeder efficiency. And that was on 40m, not 80. On 80m, it probably
would have been a greater difference.
Now, Cecil, do the math. How many db difference does it take to measure
2 s units on the average radio? A lot more that .4 db, I can tell you.
On 80m, the "storebought" G5RV's we tried were the lousiest 80m antennas
I've ever used without going to a hamstick on a VW. Yes, I do have high
standards! I've only used full size antennas my whole 80m life... When
you are running 100w, but have the performance of QRP, field day is not
fun for me. You say I'm exaggerating? How many db drop will you see on
the average radio's S meter if you drop 10 db? About 2 maybe ? The
difference between the funky G5RV's we used, and a dipole on 80m were
2-3 S units easy. You may have modified yours to improve it, but I still
don't want one. Thanks, but no thanks...
I only use full size antennas unless it's impossible. 80m on field day
is ruff cdx. Noisiest time of the year, and the band is packed wall to
wall. No place for compromise antennas..
But to each his own...Like I say, the more that use those things, the
easier I'll have it. Well, except I have to strain my ears more when
working those stations...:/ MK

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http://web.wt.net/~nm5k