On Sep 5, 9:05*pm, John Smith wrote:
I don't know why? *But, I seem to remember you asking or something about
windom baluns ...

The one I remember was about the Carolina Windom 4:1 voltage balun at
the feedpoint and the 1:1 choke-isolator 20' down the coax. The
original Windom was fed, Marconi style, against ground.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

On 9/6/2010 5:08 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
The one I remember was about the Carolina Windom 4:1 voltage balun at
the feedpoint and the 1:1 choke-isolator 20' down the coax. The
original Windom was fed, Marconi style, against ground.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

I have a "weird thing" about windoms ... I just don't trust an antenna
which "manipulates" RF on the feedline in "beneficial" ways and has a
religious cult following ... insane quirk of mine, really. lol Now I
don't have the room ... moved again.

If the wife had her way, we would move to Montana next to a favorite
sister and brother ... there we would have the room! lol

Regards,
JS

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 9/6/2010 5:08 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
The one I remember was about the Carolina Windom 4:1 voltage balun at
the feedpoint and the 1:1 choke-isolator 20' down the coax. The
original Windom was fed, Marconi style, against ground.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

I have a "weird thing" about windoms ... I just don't trust an antenna
which "manipulates" RF on the feedline in "beneficial" ways and has a
religious cult following ... insane quirk of mine, really. lol Now I
don't have the room ... moved again.

If the wife had her way, we would move to Montana next to a favorite
sister and brother ... there we would have the room! lol

Regards,
JS

Just throwing in my comments on the so called Carolina Windom like Cecil
described.
I have one up like that and also an 80 meter dipole and triband beam up to
compare signals with.
Not all cases, but many times the Windom is as good or better than the other
antennas. The beam does beat the Windom by about double the microvolt
signals on the very long signal path.

The balun I am using is suppose to be able to handle the power I am running,
but around 1 kw to the antenna the 4:1 balun overheats after about 5 minuets
and the swr starts going up. There is some current coming down the feedline
as the choke balun 20 feet down the coax is getting warm. It does not do
that with about 1200 watts going into it while connected to a dummy load.


Like most any simple antenna, you throw RF at it and hope the signal goes in
a direction that lets you make contacts. The antenna can be set so that it
is most favorable in one or two directions, but when making contacts all
around, it is difficult to change the direction of the dipole.

On 6 sep, 14:30, John Smith wrote:
On 9/6/2010 5:08 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
The one I remember was about the Carolina Windom 4:1 voltage balun at
the feedpoint and the 1:1 choke-isolator 20' down the coax. The
original Windom was fed, Marconi style, against ground.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

I have a "weird thing" about windoms ... I just don't trust an antenna
which "manipulates" RF on the feedline in "beneficial" ways and has a
religious cult following ... insane quirk of mine, really. lol *Now I
don't have the room ... moved again.

If the wife had her way, we would move to Montana next to a favorite
sister and brother ... there we would have the room! lol

Regards,
JS

Hello John,

When the feed line goes to a clean environment (for example a ground
provision far from the shack feed line radiation may not be a problem,
but it isn't my favorite. When the feed line goes directly to the
shack (and equipment), I don't want such an antenna.

When you are working NVIS on 75/80m, you don't want the vertical
component as this leads to radiation under low elevation, hence
stronger reception of ground based interference.

In case of DX, the vertical component may help you as this may result
in lower elevation of main lobe; over here we have much soil with
better then average conductivity. If I would like vertical
polarization, I prefer 100% of that, so no windom or OCF dipoles for
me.

Depending on the design, allowing vertically polarized radiation may
result in worse or better VSWR.

Regarding the color, many straight people wear it over here
(especially in summer days), so you can't judge on color only....

Regarding the balun/transformer, you need a very good one with OCF
dipoles as common mode voltage at feed point can be in the 300V range
with 100W input. just some pF stray capacitance in a transformer will
provoke feed line radiation.

Best regards,

Wim
PA3DJS
www.tetech.nl
without abc in the address, PM will reach me.

On 6 sep, 13:14, Wimpie wrote:
On 6 sep, 14:30, John Smith wrote:





On 9/6/2010 5:08 AM, Cecil Moore wrote:

...
The one I remember was about the Carolina Windom 4:1 voltage balun at
the feedpoint and the 1:1 choke-isolator 20' down the coax. The
original Windom was fed, Marconi style, against ground.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

I have a "weird thing" about windoms ... I just don't trust an antenna
which "manipulates" RF on the feedline in "beneficial" ways and has a
religious cult following ... insane quirk of mine, really. lol *Now I
don't have the room ... moved again.

If the wife had her way, we would move to Montana next to a favorite
sister and brother ... there we would have the room! lol

Regards,
JS

Hello John,

When the feed line goes to a clean environment (for example a ground
provision far from the shack feed line radiation may not be a problem,
but it isn't my favorite. *When the feed line goes directly to the
shack (and equipment), I don't want such an antenna.

When you are working NVIS on 75/80m, you don't want the vertical
component as this leads to radiation under low elevation, hence
stronger reception of ground based interference.

In case of DX, the vertical component may help you as this may result
in lower elevation of main lobe; over here we have much soil with
better then average conductivity. If I would like vertical
polarization, I prefer 100% of that, so no windom or OCF dipoles for
me.

Depending on the design, allowing vertically polarized radiation may
result in worse or better VSWR.

Regarding the color, many straight people wear it over here
(especially in summer days), so you can't judge on color only....

Regarding the balun/transformer, you need a very good one with OCF
dipoles as common mode voltage at feed point can be in the 300V range
with 100W input. just some pF *stray capacitance in a transformer will
provoke feed line radiation.

Best regards,

Wim
PA3DJSwww.tetech.nl
without abc in the address, PM will reach me.- Ocultar texto de la cita -

- Mostrar texto de la cita -

Hello boys, good day for you

Is it Carolina Windom a balanced load to justify the name "balun"? We
could think in a device to transform Z and another device to block
feed line current. What do you think about it?

Miguel

On 9/9/2010 7:26 AM, lu6etj wrote:

...
Hello boys, good day for you

Is it Carolina Windom a balanced load to justify the name "balun"? We
could think in a device to transform Z and another device to block
feed line current. What do you think about it?

Miguel

Yes, I see your point, and agree. I have never ran a windom or
experimented with it, so obviously, others are much more knowledgeable
with them. However, logic tells me they would be one easily justifiable
situation to use a voltage balun ... the CM currents being looked at
separately ... the balun must have a definite and pronounced effect on
pattern with this particular antenna.

Regards,
JS

On 9/9/2010 7:26 AM, lu6etj wrote:

Hello boys, good day for you

Is it Carolina Windom a balanced load to justify the name "balun"? We
could think in a device to transform Z and another device to block
feed line current. What do you think about it?

Miguel

Before beginning a discussion about what constitutes a balanced load and
what doesn't, how about answering these questions?

1. What is "balance"?
2. What defines a "balanced" feedline?
3. What are the properties of a "balanced" load?
4. How can you tell when a line, load, or transmitter is "balanced"?
5. What's the big deal about being "balanced", anyway?

And finally,

How does a balun achieve "balance"?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

On 9 sep, 15:48, Roy Lewallen wrote:
On 9/9/2010 7:26 AM, lu6etj wrote:



Hello boys, good day for you

Is it Carolina Windom a balanced load to justify the name "balun"? We
could think in a device to transform Z and another device to block
feed line current. What do you think about it?

Miguel

Before beginning a discussion about what constitutes a balanced load and
what doesn't, how about answering these questions?

1. What is "balance"?
2. What defines a "balanced" feedline?
3. What are the properties of a "balanced" load?
4. How can you tell when a line, load, or transmitter is "balanced"?
5. What's the big deal about being "balanced", anyway?

And finally,

How does a balun achieve "balance"?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Hello Roy

Why? that way we can end up having to define all words we use :). I
learnt a two terminal balanced circuit basically have the same
impedance respect to ground in its terminals, if Windom Carolina not
have it, well... we have missed the "bal" part of the equation :)

I recognize the other items are interesting to analize too but in
diferent sense that the proper use of the term "balun" towards I
pointed my little observation.

Years ago I have read your very good article "Baluns: What They Do
And How They Do lt" (until today I keep it safe in my computer for
reference) and I believe I understand where you point to with the
other good questions.

For John: Dear friend I could not translate well your post, may you
repeat in a little more Tarzan english for me?

Miguel

On 9/9/2010 6:50 PM, lu6etj wrote:

...
For John: Dear friend I could not translate well your post, may you
repeat in a little more Tarzan english for me?

Miguel

Miguel,

I can see why. I used some good old American satire-humor ... it is OK
my friend ...

Regards,
JS

On 9/9/2010 6:50 PM, lu6etj wrote:
On 9 sep, 15:48, Roy wrote:

Before beginning a discussion about what constitutes a balanced load and
what doesn't, how about answering these questions?

1. What is "balance"?
2. What defines a "balanced" feedline?
3. What are the properties of a "balanced" load?
4. How can you tell when a line, load, or transmitter is "balanced"?
5. What's the big deal about being "balanced", anyway?

And finally,

How does a balun achieve "balance"?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Hello Roy

Why? that way we can end up having to define all words we use :). I
learnt a two terminal balanced circuit basically have the same
impedance respect to ground in its terminals, if Windom Carolina not
have it, well... we have missed the "bal" part of the equation :)

I recognize the other items are interesting to analize too but in
diferent sense that the proper use of the term "balun" towards I
pointed my little observation.

Years ago I have read your very good article "Baluns: What They Do
And How They Do lt" (until today I keep it safe in my computer for
reference) and I believe I understand where you point to with the
other good questions.

For John: Dear friend I could not translate well your post, may you
repeat in a little more Tarzan english for me?

Miguel

Suppose you connect a transmission line to a perfectly symmetrical,
horizontal antenna. The antenna and feedline would be a "balanced
circuit" by your definition, since the two conductors of the
transmission line have equal impedances to ground. But the transmission
line will radiate.

Now connect one conductor of the transmission line to the center of your
rig's coaxial connector, and the other conductor to the rig's chassis.
(This is Fig. 2 of the article you mention, which by the way is
available at http://eznec.com/Amateur/Articles/Baluns.pdf.) Is it still
a "balanced circuit"? Why or why not?

Or suppose you take two signal generators which are perfectly coherent
(i.e., phase locked to run at exactly the same frequency) and exactly in
phase with each other. Each has a 50 ohm output impedance and each
produces exactly 1 volt RMS of RF when open circuited. Connect one of
these to each of the terminals of the feedline instead of connecting the
feedline to your transmitter.

Now,
-- The impedances to ground looking toward the antenna from the feedline
are the same for the two feedline terminals.
-- The impedances looking back toward the generators from the feedline
are the the same for the two feedline terminals.
-- The two feedline conductors have equal voltages and currents.
-- The circuit is surely balanced by your definition.

Yet the feedline will radiate. Change the generator phasing any other
angle except 180 degrees, and the feedline will radiate. Only when the
two generators are exactly out of phase will the line cease radiating. I
call that condition "balance" for the reasons explained in the article,
but it's quite different from your definition.

If we're to use your definition of "balance", we have to conclude that
balanced transmission lines radiate some times and some times they
don't. If the system is already "balanced" when the generators are zero
or, say, 90 degrees out of phase, would a balun do anything if connected
between the generators and transmission line?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL