On 13 sep, 15:31, Richard Clark wrote:
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:46:16 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

PSE explain me MISMATCH.

What is the characteristic Z of free space or air?

What is the characteristic Z of Water (plain, with mud, or salty)?

What is the ratio between the two?

How much power in one, transits the interface and proceeds through the
other?

[hint] if not much, it is reflected at the interface.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hey Richard

I said you, "mismatch" it is a magical word. TL reflected waves also
are explainabe with "mismatch" word. However mismatch it is a name for
a physical phenomena, what is that? When we talk about a traveling
wave reaching the "mismatch" point we can try to explain WHY the
reflection occur. You can talk about electric or magnetic field
collapsing in discontinuity, etc. One step beyond of a magical word
there are another magical words, electricity, magnetism for example,
well that is the matter: to advance in de why's and the how's,
otherwise we had remained in the realm of Newton and Huygens.
(read about Compton effect discovery)

73 - Miguel LU6ETJ

On 9/13/2010 12:15 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
antenna barely vibrate around their resting place when radiates (I
made calculations for a irradiant at 80 m).
This favored hypothesis of liquid antenna possibilities because would
suffice for the ions (charges) of the liquid vibrate slightly around
their points of rest to act as radiators (I do not to solve issues
related + ion mass to best "close" my questions).

Ions in copper vibrate with the acoustic frequencies.

Cool! Which frequencies are the acoustic ones?

tom
K0TAR

"Art Unwin" wrote
...
On Sep 13, 12:15 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

In the lattice are the ducts. Not all electrons are in them.

Ions in copper vibrate with the acoustic frequencies.

At the higher frequencies the AC conductivity increases.
So there are more electrons.

Consider that on the Earth is excess of electrons.

Where did you get the idea that electrons that are accelerated are a
intrinsic part of the diamagnetic material?

In the clouds are electrons. We assume that they are on the surface of the
droplets. But they jump between the droplets.
So the skin effect or your surface current is possible.

The air is full of particles from the Sun looking for a place on a
diamagnetic material to rest. The size of these particle is such that
a tensile force is applied to a surface and is of the smallest mass
possible so the speed of light can be obtained. The force vectors on
the surface of the radiater is the surface current and the
displacement current which in conjunction supplies acceleration with
spin to generate charge in a straight line projection to counter
gravity.
Nature loves simplicity does it not?

Nature yes but the teachers not.
You also use many the teacher terms (vectors and so on).
S*

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:03:42 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

I said you, "mismatch" it is a magical word. TL reflected waves also
are explainabe with "mismatch" word. However mismatch it is a name for
a physical phenomena, what is that?

Water/Air
Most people would agree that both are physical.

When we talk about a traveling
wave

Hi Miguel,

Who is "we?" "Traveling Waves" have their own special meaning, and
that meaning is unnecessary for this discussion.

reaching the "mismatch" point we

We?

can try to explain WHY the
reflection occur.

If you choose, but the WHY is unnecessary too.

Skip the magic words, as you call them. Everything you discuss is
available, by parts, but together nothing changes anything.

A transmission line is an artificial medium. It is artificial in the
sense of being man-made. Being artificial, it attempts to be similar
to nature's available media. The electronics is same for all.
Discontinuities, interfaces, abound in both artificial realms and
natural realms. Their behavior is governed by the same physics - only
the parameters are different (which is the nature of reality).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On 9/14/2010 3:06 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
wrote
. net...
On 9/13/2010 12:15 PM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

This favored hypothesis of liquid antenna possibilities because would
suffice for the ions (charges) of the liquid vibrate slightly around
their points of rest to act as radiators (I do not to solve issues
related + ion mass to best "close" my questions).

Ions in copper vibrate with the acoustic frequencies.

Cool! Which frequencies are the acoustic ones?

Do not you heard about the kids telephone?
The two cans and the wire. The ions in the wire are the medium for the
acoustic waves.
For the electric waves the medium are the electrons.


Maroon.

tom
K0TAR

On 14 sep, 19:59, Richard Clark wrote:
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:03:42 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

I said you, "mismatch" it is a magical word. TL reflected waves also
are explainabe with "mismatch" word. However mismatch it is a name for
a physical phenomena, what is that?

Water/Air
Most people would agree that both are physical.

When we talk about a traveling
wave

Hi Miguel,

Who is "we?" *"Traveling Waves" have their own special meaning, and
that meaning is unnecessary for this discussion.

reaching the "mismatch" point we

We?

can try to explain WHY the
reflection occur.

If you choose, but the WHY is unnecessary too.

Skip the magic words, as you call them. *Everything you discuss is
available, by parts, but together nothing changes anything.

A transmission line is an artificial medium. *It is artificial in the
sense of being man-made. *Being artificial, it attempts to be similar
to nature's available media. *The electronics is same for all.
Discontinuities, interfaces, abound in both artificial realms and
natural realms. *Their behavior is governed by the same physics - only
the parameters are different (which is the nature of reality).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Good mornig Richard

You are right my friend, there are not conduction currents, there not
displacement currents, there are not electrical and magnetic fields,
there are not electric charges neither electrical dipoles in soil and
water, just "mismatch" and "discontinuities" (do explain antenna
radiation with "mismatch") I wonder why those evil teachers make me
spend my time studying those things. Well... now I will return to my
science fiction physics books

73 Miguel

SRI,

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 06:11:41 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

there are not conduction currents, there not
displacement currents, there are not electrical and magnetic fields,
there are not electric charges neither electrical dipoles in soil and
water,

Hi Miguel,

There aren't? You have problems.

just "mismatch" and "discontinuities"

and more problems.

(do explain antenna
radiation with "mismatch")

******** Part One of Explanation ********

What about a conductive antenna is matched to an (relatively)
unconductive air (or free space for that matter)?

When your RF, conducting down the transmission line, sees the antenna,
it finds either a match and continues into the antenna, or finds a
mismatch and is reflected (yeah, some cannot accept the concept of
reflected power - so let's say that the energy does not cross the
interface except by some proportion in degree to the mismatch).

For what RF power/energy that does get into the radiating element, it
conducts down to the end of the element - and guess what? - it stops
conducting further in that direction.

Strange that this has to be said, being obvious in the first degree.

So, we have the antenna with some characteristic Z - can you put a
number to it? We have the surrounding medium with some characteristic
Z. They have some integral (meaning a number, integer) relationship.
Dare I call it mismatch?

When you look at the current distribution along a half wave dipole,
does it not exhibit a standing wave? If there were not a mismatch,
where did that come from?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 06:11:41 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

there are not conduction currents, there not
displacement currents, there are not electrical and magnetic fields,
there are not electric charges neither electrical dipoles in soil and
water,

(do explain antenna
radiation with "mismatch")

For what RF power/energy that does get into the radiating element, it
conducts down to the end of the element - and guess what? - it stops
conducting further in that direction.

Are you sure that there no thy field emission?

Strange that this has to be said, being obvious in the first degree.

The field emission is also in the first degree.

When you look at the current distribution along a half wave dipole,
does it not exhibit a standing wave? If there were not a mismatch,
where did that come from?

It the field emision is strong the VSWR is 1 and no standing wave.

Am I right?
S*

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 19:19:49 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Am I right?

Your trolley jumped the rails entirely. Mismatch may well serve as a
reason for this too. Consider:
A train traveling 89mph left Cincinnati at 12PM. An airplane flew out
of Denver at 12:10PM going in the same direction. When will they dock
at the same time in Seattle if they are in transit and Daylight
Savings makes its changeover next month?

For complete credit:
What day did the train leave?
What day did the airplane arrive?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On 15 sep, 14:01, Richard Clark wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 06:11:41 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

there are not conduction currents, there not
displacement currents, there are not electrical and magnetic fields,
there are not electric charges neither electrical dipoles in soil and
water,

Hi Miguel,

There aren't? *You have problems.

just "mismatch" and "discontinuities"

*and more problems.

(do explain antenna
radiation with "mismatch")

******** Part One of Explanation ********

What about a conductive antenna is matched to an (relatively)
unconductive air (or free space for that matter)?

When your RF, conducting down the transmission line, sees the antenna,
it finds either a match and continues into the antenna, or finds a
mismatch and is reflected (yeah, some cannot accept the concept of
reflected power - so let's say that the energy does not cross the
interface except by some proportion in degree to the mismatch).

For what RF power/energy that does get into the radiating element, it
conducts down to the end of the element - and guess what? - it stops
conducting further in that direction.

Strange that this has to be said, being obvious in the first degree.

So, we have the antenna with some characteristic Z - can you put a
number to it? *We have the surrounding medium with some characteristic
Z. *They have some integral (meaning a number, integer) relationship.
Dare I call it mismatch?

When you look at the current distribution along a half wave dipole,
does it not exhibit a standing wave? *If there were not a mismatch,
where did that come from?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Oh, yes, I quite understand, balls bounce against walls "because walls
are discontinuities" there is a "mismatch in the media" c'est finite,
that's all folks! good "explanation", why to ask more?, why to ask
"why"? (one step back, the explanation was "God").

Good night Richard (it is time for my catechism)
It is my karma... I know... my second name is Ricardo

Miguel