On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:46:16 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

PSE explain me MISMATCH.

What is the characteristic Z of free space or air?

What is the characteristic Z of Water (plain, with mud, or salty)?

What is the ratio between the two?

How much power in one, transits the interface and proceeds through the
other?

[hint] if not much, it is reflected at the interface.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On 13 sep, 15:31, Richard Clark wrote:
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:46:16 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

PSE explain me MISMATCH.

What is the characteristic Z of free space or air?

What is the characteristic Z of Water (plain, with mud, or salty)?

What is the ratio between the two?

How much power in one, transits the interface and proceeds through the
other?

[hint] if not much, it is reflected at the interface.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hey Richard

I said you, "mismatch" it is a magical word. TL reflected waves also
are explainabe with "mismatch" word. However mismatch it is a name for
a physical phenomena, what is that? When we talk about a traveling
wave reaching the "mismatch" point we can try to explain WHY the
reflection occur. You can talk about electric or magnetic field
collapsing in discontinuity, etc. One step beyond of a magical word
there are another magical words, electricity, magnetism for example,
well that is the matter: to advance in de why's and the how's,
otherwise we had remained in the realm of Newton and Huygens.
(read about Compton effect discovery)

73 - Miguel LU6ETJ

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:03:42 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

I said you, "mismatch" it is a magical word. TL reflected waves also
are explainabe with "mismatch" word. However mismatch it is a name for
a physical phenomena, what is that?

Water/Air
Most people would agree that both are physical.

When we talk about a traveling
wave

Hi Miguel,

Who is "we?" "Traveling Waves" have their own special meaning, and
that meaning is unnecessary for this discussion.

reaching the "mismatch" point we

We?

can try to explain WHY the
reflection occur.

If you choose, but the WHY is unnecessary too.

Skip the magic words, as you call them. Everything you discuss is
available, by parts, but together nothing changes anything.

A transmission line is an artificial medium. It is artificial in the
sense of being man-made. Being artificial, it attempts to be similar
to nature's available media. The electronics is same for all.
Discontinuities, interfaces, abound in both artificial realms and
natural realms. Their behavior is governed by the same physics - only
the parameters are different (which is the nature of reality).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On 14 sep, 19:59, Richard Clark wrote:
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:03:42 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

I said you, "mismatch" it is a magical word. TL reflected waves also
are explainabe with "mismatch" word. However mismatch it is a name for
a physical phenomena, what is that?

Water/Air
Most people would agree that both are physical.

When we talk about a traveling
wave

Hi Miguel,

Who is "we?" *"Traveling Waves" have their own special meaning, and
that meaning is unnecessary for this discussion.

reaching the "mismatch" point we

We?

can try to explain WHY the
reflection occur.

If you choose, but the WHY is unnecessary too.

Skip the magic words, as you call them. *Everything you discuss is
available, by parts, but together nothing changes anything.

A transmission line is an artificial medium. *It is artificial in the
sense of being man-made. *Being artificial, it attempts to be similar
to nature's available media. *The electronics is same for all.
Discontinuities, interfaces, abound in both artificial realms and
natural realms. *Their behavior is governed by the same physics - only
the parameters are different (which is the nature of reality).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Good mornig Richard

You are right my friend, there are not conduction currents, there not
displacement currents, there are not electrical and magnetic fields,
there are not electric charges neither electrical dipoles in soil and
water, just "mismatch" and "discontinuities" (do explain antenna
radiation with "mismatch") I wonder why those evil teachers make me
spend my time studying those things. Well... now I will return to my
science fiction physics books

73 Miguel

SRI,

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 06:11:41 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

there are not conduction currents, there not
displacement currents, there are not electrical and magnetic fields,
there are not electric charges neither electrical dipoles in soil and
water,

Hi Miguel,

There aren't? You have problems.

just "mismatch" and "discontinuities"

and more problems.

(do explain antenna
radiation with "mismatch")

******** Part One of Explanation ********

What about a conductive antenna is matched to an (relatively)
unconductive air (or free space for that matter)?

When your RF, conducting down the transmission line, sees the antenna,
it finds either a match and continues into the antenna, or finds a
mismatch and is reflected (yeah, some cannot accept the concept of
reflected power - so let's say that the energy does not cross the
interface except by some proportion in degree to the mismatch).

For what RF power/energy that does get into the radiating element, it
conducts down to the end of the element - and guess what? - it stops
conducting further in that direction.

Strange that this has to be said, being obvious in the first degree.

So, we have the antenna with some characteristic Z - can you put a
number to it? We have the surrounding medium with some characteristic
Z. They have some integral (meaning a number, integer) relationship.
Dare I call it mismatch?

When you look at the current distribution along a half wave dipole,
does it not exhibit a standing wave? If there were not a mismatch,
where did that come from?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote
...
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 06:11:41 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

there are not conduction currents, there not
displacement currents, there are not electrical and magnetic fields,
there are not electric charges neither electrical dipoles in soil and
water,

(do explain antenna
radiation with "mismatch")

For what RF power/energy that does get into the radiating element, it
conducts down to the end of the element - and guess what? - it stops
conducting further in that direction.

Are you sure that there no thy field emission?

Strange that this has to be said, being obvious in the first degree.

The field emission is also in the first degree.

When you look at the current distribution along a half wave dipole,
does it not exhibit a standing wave? If there were not a mismatch,
where did that come from?

It the field emision is strong the VSWR is 1 and no standing wave.

Am I right?
S*

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 19:19:49 +0200, "Szczepan Bialek"
wrote:

Am I right?

Your trolley jumped the rails entirely. Mismatch may well serve as a
reason for this too. Consider:
A train traveling 89mph left Cincinnati at 12PM. An airplane flew out
of Denver at 12:10PM going in the same direction. When will they dock
at the same time in Seattle if they are in transit and Daylight
Savings makes its changeover next month?

For complete credit:
What day did the train leave?
What day did the airplane arrive?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On 15 sep, 14:01, Richard Clark wrote:
On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 06:11:41 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

there are not conduction currents, there not
displacement currents, there are not electrical and magnetic fields,
there are not electric charges neither electrical dipoles in soil and
water,

Hi Miguel,

There aren't? *You have problems.

just "mismatch" and "discontinuities"

*and more problems.

(do explain antenna
radiation with "mismatch")

******** Part One of Explanation ********

What about a conductive antenna is matched to an (relatively)
unconductive air (or free space for that matter)?

When your RF, conducting down the transmission line, sees the antenna,
it finds either a match and continues into the antenna, or finds a
mismatch and is reflected (yeah, some cannot accept the concept of
reflected power - so let's say that the energy does not cross the
interface except by some proportion in degree to the mismatch).

For what RF power/energy that does get into the radiating element, it
conducts down to the end of the element - and guess what? - it stops
conducting further in that direction.

Strange that this has to be said, being obvious in the first degree.

So, we have the antenna with some characteristic Z - can you put a
number to it? *We have the surrounding medium with some characteristic
Z. *They have some integral (meaning a number, integer) relationship.
Dare I call it mismatch?

When you look at the current distribution along a half wave dipole,
does it not exhibit a standing wave? *If there were not a mismatch,
where did that come from?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Oh, yes, I quite understand, balls bounce against walls "because walls
are discontinuities" there is a "mismatch in the media" c'est finite,
that's all folks! good "explanation", why to ask more?, why to ask
"why"? (one step back, the explanation was "God").

Good night Richard (it is time for my catechism)
It is my karma... I know... my second name is Ricardo

Miguel

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 18:43:51 -0700 (PDT), lu6etj
wrote:

why to ask more?

Because everthing else was "magic" to you. Strange sort of
limitation, but there you are with a less than satisfactory answer.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC