Hi
We have put together a dipole, each leg is 66 feet. We put a 1:1 balun and
it is running about 60 feet of 50 ohm coax. Presently it is about half way
up the tower it is intended for so we could check the SWR before getting it
up to the highest point. Presently each leg has some lags and dips, no major
bends but it is just hanging there, over some bushes and the entire thing is
over top of the house, and not touching anything but is very close to some
steel guy wires (uninsulated).
Now we can only tune this down to a useable SWR on the 80m band. On all
other bands we cannot tune it down to a safe operating range. We are using a
good antenna tuner but cannot get anything useable except for 80m. Here we
are able to tune the SWR right down.

Questions???
Would we be better without that balun?

Is the fact that the dipole is still too low and close to the guy wires (
but not touching) our problem?

Any suggestions please??

Thank you.
Bob

"Bob" wrote in message
...
Hi
We have put together a dipole, each leg is 66 feet. We put a 1:1 balun and
it is running about 60 feet of 50 ohm coax. Presently it is about half way
up the tower it is intended for so we could check the SWR before getting
it
up to the highest point. Presently each leg has some lags and dips, no
major
bends but it is just hanging there, over some bushes and the entire thing
is
over top of the house, and not touching anything but is very close to some
steel guy wires (uninsulated).
Now we can only tune this down to a useable SWR on the 80m band. On all
other bands we cannot tune it down to a safe operating range. We are using
a
good antenna tuner but cannot get anything useable except for 80m. Here we
are able to tune the SWR right down.

Questions???
Would we be better without that balun?

If you want multi-band operation, then yes, you have to
forget the balun, or put multiple dipoles on the output lugs.
__
Steve
KI5YG
..

Hi Steven

Thank you for your response to my problem.

Any suggestion? What you say is that I would be better off without that 1:1
balun? Yes, now I have it at 66feet each leg for a total of 132 feet but now
it is not at the best height but kinda sagging and lopping where it is but
off the ground and about 2 feet above the roof and other obstacles. I also
have it presently close to steel guy wires and the tower itself. What would
be my problem then here now? You believe it is my balun? I was hoping to get
this up there and then leave it. All this climbing is difficult. Do you
believe that once I get it up there, with the coax, with the dipole, no
balun, do you think that would allow me better results with a good antenna
tuner? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you
BOb







" Stephen Cowell" wrote in message
m...

"Bob" wrote in message
...
Hi
We have put together a dipole, each leg is 66 feet. We put a 1:1 balun
and
it is running about 60 feet of 50 ohm coax. Presently it is about half
way
up the tower it is intended for so we could check the SWR before getting
it
up to the highest point. Presently each leg has some lags and dips, no
major
bends but it is just hanging there, over some bushes and the entire
thing
is
over top of the house, and not touching anything but is very close to
some
steel guy wires (uninsulated).
Now we can only tune this down to a useable SWR on the 80m band. On all
other bands we cannot tune it down to a safe operating range. We are
using
a
good antenna tuner but cannot get anything useable except for 80m. Here
we
are able to tune the SWR right down.

Questions???
Would we be better without that balun?

If you want multi-band operation, then yes, you have to
forget the balun, or put multiple dipoles on the output lugs.
__
Steve
KI5YG
.

Bob wrote:

Hi Steven

Thank you for your response to my problem.

Any suggestion? What you say is that I would be better off without that 1:1
balun? Yes, now I have it at 66feet each leg for a total of 132 feet but now
it is not at the best height but kinda sagging and lopping where it is but
off the ground and about 2 feet above the roof and other obstacles. I also
have it presently close to steel guy wires and the tower itself. What would
be my problem then here now?

The problem is the coax.

You believe it is my balun? I was hoping to get
this up there and then leave it. All this climbing is difficult. Do you
believe that once I get it up there, with the coax, with the dipole, no
balun, do you think that would allow me better results with a good antenna
tuner? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Feeding your dipole with ladder-line moves all the matching problems to the
hamshack where you don't have to climb anything to solve them. Try the following
configuration and get back to us on any remaining problems.

XMTR--tuner--1:1 balun/choke--100 ft. 450 ohm ladder-line---132 ft. dipole

This configuration will allow multi-band operation on most of the HF ham
bands. The problems you will have with a couple of bands are solvable.
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP



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"Bob" wrote in message
...
Hi Steven

Thank you for your response to my problem.
Any suggestion? What you say is that I would be better off without that
1:1
balun? Yes, now I have it at 66feet each leg for a total of 132 feet but
now
it is not at the best height but kinda sagging and lopping where it is but
off the ground and about 2 feet above the roof and other obstacles. I also
have it presently close to steel guy wires and the tower itself. What
would
be my problem then here now? You believe it is my balun?

The balun is basically what is limiting your multi-band
operation. At crazy impedances the balun
prevents the shield of the coax from assisting in absorbing
some of the mismatch. Others have pointed out that the
optimum situation is to feed your antenna with balanced line...
if you must use coax, and you must have multi-band operation,
then use an antenna tuner without a balun upstairs. RG58
doesn't work nearly as good as RG8... I couldn't make my
inverted vee (resonant at 3750kHz) work 15m until I switched
over to RG8. You should avoid legal-limit operation on the
higher bands with this setup, unless you like burnt coax.

I was hoping to get
this up there and then leave it. All this climbing is difficult. Do you
believe that once I get it up there, with the coax, with the dipole, no
balun, do you think that would allow me better results with a good antenna
tuner? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Yes, the good antenna tuner is the key. Get one
with a built-in balun, so you can try balanced feedline
when you get a chance. It really is hotter, both listening
and transmitting.

You should only climb once, put up a yardarm, rope,
and pulley, and then you can play to your heart's content.
Mounting a wire antenna permanently is pure hubris,
beware!
__
Steve
KI5YG
..

Bob wrote:
Hi
We have put together a dipole, each leg is 66 feet. We put a 1:1 balun and
it is running about 60 feet of 50 ohm coax. Presently it is about half way
up the tower it is intended for so we could check the SWR before getting it
up to the highest point. Presently each leg has some lags and dips, no major
bends but it is just hanging there, over some bushes and the entire thing is
over top of the house, and not touching anything but is very close to some
steel guy wires (uninsulated).
Now we can only tune this down to a useable SWR on the 80m band. On all
other bands we cannot tune it down to a safe operating range. We are using a
good antenna tuner but cannot get anything useable except for 80m. Here we
are able to tune the SWR right down.

Questions???
Would we be better without that balun?

Is the fact that the dipole is still too low and close to the guy wires (
but not touching) our problem?

Bob, the antenna as you describe it is pretty much *for* 80 meters. If
you want to tune the thing on multiple bands, and I'm assuming that you
want it for the Ham frequencies, you will want to replace the coax and
balun with ladder line, and use a tuner to match the impedence with your
radio.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Hi, Thank you for your response. I do not have ladder line and only have the
coax basically. Is it acceptable for good results to simply use the coax and
then split it out to each direction of the copper wire? And not use the 1:1
balun? I was hoping to simply get the dipole in the air and leave it and
simply tune it at the transmitter to acceptable SWR and go from there. Now I
only get good SWR on the 80meters because of the length it is cut at. I was
hoping also to use the dipole with the tuner on 10, 15, 20 and 40. Is this
possible? The tuner is good and I know I will lose the power to the tuner
but would still get to use the other bands when needed.
Any more advice is greatly appreciated.
thanks
Bob






"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Bob wrote:
Hi
We have put together a dipole, each leg is 66 feet. We put a 1:1 balun
and
it is running about 60 feet of 50 ohm coax. Presently it is about half
way
up the tower it is intended for so we could check the SWR before getting
it
up to the highest point. Presently each leg has some lags and dips, no
major
bends but it is just hanging there, over some bushes and the entire
thing is
over top of the house, and not touching anything but is very close to
some
steel guy wires (uninsulated).
Now we can only tune this down to a useable SWR on the 80m band. On all
other bands we cannot tune it down to a safe operating range. We are
using a
good antenna tuner but cannot get anything useable except for 80m. Here
we
are able to tune the SWR right down.

Questions???
Would we be better without that balun?

Is the fact that the dipole is still too low and close to the guy wires
(
but not touching) our problem?

Bob, the antenna as you describe it is pretty much *for* 80 meters. If
you want to tune the thing on multiple bands, and I'm assuming that you
want it for the Ham frequencies, you will want to replace the coax and
balun with ladder line, and use a tuner to match the impedence with your
radio.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Bob wrote:
Hi, Thank you for your response. I do not have ladder line and only have the
coax basically.

The coax *IS* the problem. If you don't like to climb, you are going to
have to replace the coax with something like 450 ohm ladder-line. 100
ft. of such ladder-line costs about $17.

One other possible solution is to install an autotuner at the antenna
feedpoint but that is a pain to do.
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP




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Cecil Moore wrote:

Bob wrote:

Hi, Thank you for your response. I do not have ladder line and only
have the
coax basically.


The coax *IS* the problem. If you don't like to climb, you are going to
have to replace the coax with something like 450 ohm ladder-line. 100
ft. of such ladder-line costs about $17.

One other possible solution is to install an autotuner at the antenna
feedpoint but that is a pain to do.

Fer sure! I love my ladder line, and it's foibles are worth putting up
with IMO.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Bob wrote:
Hi, Thank you for your response. I do not have ladder line and only have the
coax basically. Is it acceptable for good results to simply use the coax and
then split it out to each direction of the copper wire? And not use the 1:1
balun? I was hoping to simply get the dipole in the air and leave it and
simply tune it at the transmitter to acceptable SWR and go from there. Now I
only get good SWR on the 80meters because of the length it is cut at. I was
hoping also to use the dipole with the tuner on 10, 15, 20 and 40. Is this
possible? The tuner is good and I know I will lose the power to the tuner
but would still get to use the other bands when needed.
Any more advice is greatly appreciated.
thanks
Bob

The 1:1 balun isn't effecting the match on the other bands. If you
remove it, there probably wouldn't be much difference at all.

You could maybe put traps on the antenna so that it will be able to
resonate on multiple bands.

Another option would be to make multiple dipoles for the other bands.
The impedance mismatch will make the signal tend to go down the dipole
that corresponds to the desired band. Think of that sort of dipole as a
fan so to speak. If you go this route, You'll want to trim the lowest
band first, then work your way up in frequency for the other parts of
the dipole.

But all of these options are a good deal more work than the ladder line
method. But if you won't or can't use ladder line due to your
circumstances, I'd try the fan dipole.

- Mike KB3EIA -