'Captain' Kirk DeHaan said the following on 5/22/2011 11:04 AM:
I'm living in a wooded area and am trying to hit our club repeater
reliably. It's cloudy now so I'm and getting a bit of ducting but I have
a lot of trees, mostly poplars, in the direct path. I would have a line
of sight if not for the trees as I'm up enough in altitude. I can cut
the trees, they're mine, but finding the right ones is difficult and i
don't want to waste the whole grove.

I go from keying the repeater with no intelligible signal to not being
able to hit it. Today I actually have an S meter reading due to the
clouds. I am currently using a J-pole and will put up a Yagi soon but
wonder if NVIS would work on 2m? I have only seen references to it being
applied in HF.

'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
N6SXR

I am still working on finding where the problem is. I pulled the J-pole
down and checked the resistance of the separate connections. I didn't
want to pull it apart if not necessary. Everything showed 0.0 to 0.1
ohms. Seems fine to me. I then cleaned the connector as throughly as
possible using emory cloth inside and dremeled the outside with a fine
wire brush. There was a small amount of oxidation and it appeared much
cleaner and brighter after. I also straightened the two elements but
they were not really that bent. You had to look down the long axis to
see any deviation. They are as straight as they are going to get but I
can't believe that would make much difference.

After all this I put it back up to it's original height. There was not
discernible change. I was almost unreadable at the repeater.

Next I pushed up my mast a few feet more. It is a 50' pushup that
normally requires guy wires. I am not using any so I am leaving
considerable overlap of the sections. I would estimate it is up around
32'. Even in high winds here I saw little deflection with just the
J-pole. The 3 or 4 feet I pushed it up gave me a little bit of
improvement. When I win the lottery I'll get a 100' tower put up.
Guess I'm stuck with this then :-)

I still think it is the trees and have taken a picture from the roof
peak towards the repeater so you can see what I am dealing with.

http://www.ncc-1701a.net/Ham Radio/ForestObstruction.jpg

It is deceiving as there are many more trees behind this line on my
neighbors property. I wouldn't even think of asking him to cut any.
They are money in the bank for him.

--
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
N6SXR

"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life here"

On 6/1/2011 4:48 PM, 'Captain' Kirk DeHaan wrote:
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan said the following on 5/22/2011 11:04 AM:
I'm living in a wooded area and am trying to hit our club repeater
reliably. It's cloudy now so I'm and getting a bit of ducting but I have
a lot of trees, mostly poplars, in the direct path. I would have a line
of sight if not for the trees as I'm up enough in altitude. I can cut
the trees, they're mine, but finding the right ones is difficult and i
don't want to waste the whole grove.

I go from keying the repeater with no intelligible signal to not being
able to hit it. Today I actually have an S meter reading due to the
clouds. I am currently using a J-pole and will put up a Yagi soon but
wonder if NVIS would work on 2m? I have only seen references to it being
applied in HF.

'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
N6SXR

I am still working on finding where the problem is. I pulled the J-pole
down and checked the resistance of the separate connections. I didn't
want to pull it apart if not necessary. Everything showed 0.0 to 0.1
ohms. Seems fine to me. I then cleaned the connector as throughly as
possible using emory cloth inside and dremeled the outside with a fine
wire brush. There was a small amount of oxidation and it appeared much
cleaner and brighter after. I also straightened the two elements but
they were not really that bent. You had to look down the long axis to
see any deviation. They are as straight as they are going to get but I
can't believe that would make much difference.

After all this I put it back up to it's original height. There was not
discernible change. I was almost unreadable at the repeater.

Next I pushed up my mast a few feet more. It is a 50' pushup that
normally requires guy wires. I am not using any so I am leaving
considerable overlap of the sections. I would estimate it is up around
32'. Even in high winds here I saw little deflection with just the
J-pole. The 3 or 4 feet I pushed it up gave me a little bit of
improvement. When I win the lottery I'll get a 100' tower put up. Guess
I'm stuck with this then :-)

I still think it is the trees and have taken a picture from the roof
peak towards the repeater so you can see what I am dealing with.

http://www.ncc-1701a.net/Ham Radio/ForestObstruction.jpg

It is deceiving as there are many more trees behind this line on my
neighbors property. I wouldn't even think of asking him to cut any. They
are money in the bank for him.


Hi, Kirk -

It looks more formidable than I had imagined. I am sure the picture will
generate some comments.

Nobody can say you aren't making maximum effort, for sure.

When will be that club meeting?

73,
John - KD5YI

On 6/1/2011 4:48 PM, 'Captain' Kirk DeHaan wrote:

I am still working on finding where the problem is. I pulled the J-pole
down and checked the resistance of the separate connections. I didn't
want to pull it apart if not necessary. Everything showed 0.0 to 0.1
ohms. Seems fine to me. I then cleaned the connector as throughly as
possible using emory cloth inside and dremeled the outside with a fine
wire brush. There was a small amount of oxidation and it appeared much
cleaner and brighter after. I also straightened the two elements but
they were not really that bent. You had to look down the long axis to
see any deviation. They are as straight as they are going to get but I
can't believe that would make much difference.

After all this I put it back up to it's original height. There was not
discernible change. I was almost unreadable at the repeater.

Next I pushed up my mast a few feet more. It is a 50' pushup that
normally requires guy wires. I am not using any so I am leaving
considerable overlap of the sections. I would estimate it is up around
32'. Even in high winds here I saw little deflection with just the
J-pole. The 3 or 4 feet I pushed it up gave me a little bit of
improvement. When I win the lottery I'll get a 100' tower put up. Guess
I'm stuck with this then :-)

I still think it is the trees and have taken a picture from the roof
peak towards the repeater so you can see what I am dealing with.

http://www.ncc-1701a.net/Ham Radio/ForestObstruction.jpg

It is deceiving as there are many more trees behind this line on my
neighbors property. I wouldn't even think of asking him to cut any. They
are money in the bank for him.


Kirk -

Do you have parts on hand such as extra coax, connectors, wire, etc?

Although you have done a thorough job of examining your installation, it
behoove you to make a test separate from your present antenna installation.

For example, you could simply strip 1/4WL from the end of a coax feeder
and put that end on the roof temporarily. I know, not the best match,
common mode currents down the line, signal launches upward, etc. But, it
is simple and might tell you something.

Maybe a quick, thrown-together ground plane?

Just a thought.

73,
John

On Jun 1, 2:48*pm, 'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
wrote:
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan said the following on 5/22/2011 11:04 AM:

I'm living in a wooded area and am trying to hit our club repeater
reliably. It's cloudy now so I'm and getting a bit of ducting but I have
a lot of trees, mostly poplars, in the direct path. I would have a line
of sight if not for the trees as I'm up enough in altitude. I can cut
the trees, they're mine, but finding the right ones is difficult and i
don't want to waste the whole grove.

I go from keying the repeater with no intelligible signal to not being
able to hit it. Today I actually have an S meter reading due to the
clouds. I am currently using a J-pole and will put up a Yagi soon but
wonder if NVIS would work on 2m? I have only seen references to it being
applied in HF.

'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
N6SXR

I am still working on finding where the problem is. *I pulled the J-pole
down and checked the resistance of the separate connections. *I didn't
want to pull it apart if not necessary. *Everything showed 0.0 to 0.1
ohms. *Seems fine to me. *I then cleaned the connector as throughly as
possible using emory cloth inside and dremeled the outside with a fine
wire brush. *There was a small amount of oxidation and it appeared much
cleaner and brighter after. *I also straightened the two elements but
they were not really that bent. *You had to look down the long axis to
see any deviation. *They are as straight as they are going to get but I
can't believe that would make much difference.

I don't think anybody asked you:

How much power are you putting out?

How well do you hear the repeater; are there times when it fades below
squelch while you're listening to other people?

(No, I don't have a 2m PA that I'm trying to unload.)

Sal

Sal M. Onella said the following on 6/1/2011 10:37 PM:
On Jun 1, 2:48 pm, 'Captain' Kirk
wrote:
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan said the following on 5/22/2011 11:04 AM:

I'm living in a wooded area and am trying to hit our club repeater
reliably. It's cloudy now so I'm and getting a bit of ducting but I have
a lot of trees, mostly poplars, in the direct path. I would have a line
of sight if not for the trees as I'm up enough in altitude. I can cut
the trees, they're mine, but finding the right ones is difficult and i
don't want to waste the whole grove.

I go from keying the repeater with no intelligible signal to not being
able to hit it. Today I actually have an S meter reading due to the
clouds. I am currently using a J-pole and will put up a Yagi soon but
wonder if NVIS would work on 2m? I have only seen references to it being
applied in HF.

'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
N6SXR

I am still working on finding where the problem is. I pulled the J-pole
down and checked the resistance of the separate connections. I didn't
want to pull it apart if not necessary. Everything showed 0.0 to 0.1
ohms. Seems fine to me. I then cleaned the connector as throughly as
possible using emory cloth inside and dremeled the outside with a fine
wire brush. There was a small amount of oxidation and it appeared much
cleaner and brighter after. I also straightened the two elements but
they were not really that bent. You had to look down the long axis to
see any deviation. They are as straight as they are going to get but I
can't believe that would make much difference.

I don't think anybody asked you:

How much power are you putting out?

How well do you hear the repeater; are there times when it fades below
squelch while you're listening to other people?

(No, I don't have a 2m PA that I'm trying to unload.)

Sal

Sal,

My TM-721A is putting out 35 watts. At least that is the spec. The
repeater is always scratchy and barely readable. I've only had one time
when it even showed up on the S meter. That was low clouds so I assume
it was cloud bounce.

--
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
N6SXR

"Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life here"

On Jun 2, 8:23*am, 'Captain' Kirk DeHaan
wrote:
Sal M. Onella said the following on 6/1/2011 10:37 PM:

snip

How much power are you putting out?

How well do you hear the repeater; are there times when it fades below
squelch while you're listening to other people?



My TM-721A is putting out 35 watts. *At least that is the spec. *The
repeater is always scratchy and barely readable. *I've only had one time
when it even showed up on the S meter. *That was low clouds so I assume
it was cloud bounce.

--
'Captain' Kirk DeHaan


You indicated that you're working other repeaters with ease. Blaming
the trees sounds right.

I think a 2m beam is the way to go. I've used one at Field Day for
ten or so years from south of San Diego and easily worked 100 miles
into Los Angeles, simplex, obviously. The improvement in performance
is dramatic with 15 dBi gain, compared to approx 2 dBi gain of an end-
fed dipole, your j-pole. My two beams were less than 50 dollars
apiece at ham swap meets. Mount with elements vertical.

I just did an experiment and, as I expected, a 10 dB increase in
signal strength took me from unreadable to Q5 copy with tolerable
background hiss. (I used switchable attenuators to set up the signal
test conditions and a distant repeater as the test signal.)

If the repeater is no worse than "barely readable," 10 dB should fix
you up.

By the way, the gain effect is not so great that you'd lose the other
repeaters, unless one just happened to hit a deep null by bad luck.

"Sal"