On Friday, June 17, 2011 2:33:18 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:


1. Set up a butternut HF9V on a roof mount approx 30-35 feet above the
ground with tuned radials. The problem being, the footprint of my
roof is only 35' x 35'. With the antenna set up in the center of the
roof, there will be only a max of 17" to string the radials outward.
I'd have to "snake" them in order to fit and figure out how to secure
them. Another draw back is that verticals tend to be noisy. Not to
mention shelling out money for a roof mount set up and putting lag
bolts in up there.

It could work pretty well as far as verticals go,
but all the tuned radials will be a pain to deal with
for all bands. It would be easier to ground mount, but
of course, being the antenna is lower, the local space
wave on the higher bands will not be as strong as elevated.
But it will make little difference on the lower bands
as long as you plant the ground radials. One plus to the
ground mount, is the radials don't need to be tuned.
They can be any length and still help. Where as elevated,
untuned radials that are not in use are fairly useless.


2. Set up a GAP Titan on a roof mount approx 30-35 feet up. No
radials needed with that antenna, but I have been told/read that
unless perfectly assembled, they don’t work as advertised. Again...
Verticals can be a noisy and the set up time and cost.

Never tried one. But it wouldn't be in my cards if I
were in your position. Also, verticals are no noisier
than any other antenna. It just depends on the polarization
of the noise signal. Noise is RF just like any other signal,
and follows the same rules.


3. Set up a Chameleon V11 or v12 vertical rigid diepole on a non
conductive mast mounted to brackets on the side of the house with the
feed point of the antenna being about 25 to 30 feet high. This antenna
is advertised as a "dipole" and does not need any radial set up. There
have only been a few reviews of this antenna. All are very favorable,
but is it too good to be true??? A vertical mounted rigid antenna
working with no radials even if it is being called a dipole ??? With
this antenna, I’d be able to avoid having to use a roof mount. Just
mast it to the side of the house high enough for the bottom pole to
clear the roof. A simple install. Still… No idea at all how good
this antenna is.

New one on me.. Never have seen one.. Sounds like a
typical half wave design..


4. Go with a wire antenna. I had in mind using the Buckmaster off
center fed diepole.

I'm not a fan of off center fed dipoles.
But overall, I think a wire antenna is your best
choice if you want a decent NVIS signal on the
lower bands.
But... I would use a center fed dipole.
If you require all bands, I would use the
largest dipole you can squeeze in, preferably
80m size, "60-65 feet per leg", and feed it
with ladder line, and using a tuner at the rig.

Myself, I prefer parallel coax fed dipoles, but
I usually don't run every single band.
IE: I have 80 and 40 dipoles on the same coax
feed. I'm on one of those bands 90 percent of the
time. I can slap a tuner inline if I want to
work one of the other bands. Some loss, with it
still usually works well enough to talk.

I also thought about using my current short-wave listening antenna to
transmit with, but I think I’d have to change the matching
transformer. I’ve got an Inverted L with a 30” vertical length and
40” horizontal length. That receiving wire is stranded copper made
specifically to be used as receiving wire. It is attached to a
matching transformer (an ICE-180) that is mounted to the foundation of
my house about two feet off the ground. That ICE-180 is in turn
directly grounded to an 8 foot brass grounding rod. The feed line is
50 ohm coax that runs up the side of the house from the ICE-180 and
into the shack. The ICE-180 is a “receive only” item and I don’t think
you can load it up.

An inverted L can work fairly well in some cases,
but you would need to rework the feed system to
transmit. And a ladder line fed dipole would probably
outplay it anyway for most all bands.



Anyway, my vote is ladder line fed dipole for all
bands 80-10. Will need a tuner though.. Or use Cecils's
tunerless method with cut feed line lengths.

On Jun 17, 9:02*pm, wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2011 2:33:18 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:

1. Set up a butternut HF9V on a roof mount approx 30-35 feet above the
ground with tuned radials. *The problem being, the footprint of my
roof is only 35' x 35'. *With the antenna set up in the center of the
roof, there will be only a max of 17" to string the radials outward.
I'd have to "snake" them in order to fit and figure out how to secure
them. *Another draw back is that verticals tend to be noisy. *Not to
mention shelling out money for a roof mount set up and putting lag
bolts in up there.

It could work pretty well as far as verticals go,
but all the tuned radials will be a pain to deal with
for all bands. It would be easier to ground mount, but
of course, being the antenna is lower, the local space
wave on the higher bands will not be as strong as elevated.
But it will make little difference on the lower bands
as long as you plant the ground radials. One plus to the
ground mount, is the radials don't need to be tuned.
They can be any length and still help. Where as elevated,
untuned radials that are not in use are fairly useless.



2. Set up a GAP Titan on a roof mount approx 30-35 feet up. *No
radials needed with that antenna, but I have been told/read that
unless perfectly assembled, they don’t work as advertised. *Again....
Verticals can be a noisy and the set up time and cost.

Never tried one. But it wouldn't be in my cards if I
were in your position. Also, verticals are no noisier
than any other antenna. It just depends on the polarization
of the noise signal. Noise is RF just like any other signal,
and follows the same rules.



3. *Set up a Chameleon V11 or v12 vertical rigid diepole on a non
conductive mast mounted to brackets on the side of the house with the
feed point of the antenna being about 25 to 30 feet high. This antenna
is advertised as a "dipole" and does not need any radial set up. There
have only been a few reviews of this antenna. *All are very favorable,
but is it too good to be true??? A vertical mounted rigid antenna
working with no radials even if it is being called a dipole ??? With
this antenna, I’d be able to avoid having to use a roof mount. *Just
mast it to the side of the house high enough for the bottom pole to
clear the roof. *A simple install. *Still… No idea at all how good
this antenna is.

New one on me.. Never have seen one.. Sounds like a
typical half wave design..



4. *Go with a wire antenna. *I had in mind using the Buckmaster off
center fed diepole. *

I'm not a fan of off center fed dipoles.
But overall, I think a wire antenna is your best
choice if you want a decent NVIS signal on the
lower bands.
But... I would use a center fed dipole.
If you require all bands, I would use the
largest dipole you can squeeze in, preferably
80m size, "60-65 feet per leg", and feed it
with ladder line, and using a tuner at the rig.

Myself, I prefer parallel coax fed dipoles, but
I usually don't run every single band.
IE: I have 80 and 40 dipoles on the same coax
feed. I'm on one of those bands 90 percent of the
time. I can slap a tuner inline if I want to
work one of the other bands. Some loss, with it
still usually works well enough to talk.



I also thought about using my current short-wave listening antenna to
transmit with, but I think I’d have to change the matching
transformer. *I’ve got an Inverted L with a 30” vertical length and
40” horizontal length. *That receiving wire is stranded copper made
specifically to be used as receiving wire. It is attached to a
matching transformer (an ICE-180) that is mounted to the foundation of
my house about two feet off the ground. *That ICE-180 is in turn
directly grounded to an 8 foot brass grounding rod. *The feed line is
50 ohm coax that runs up the side of the house from the ICE-180 and
into the shack. The ICE-180 is a “receive only” item and I don’t think
you can load it up.

An inverted L can work fairly well in some cases,
but you would need to rework the feed system to
transmit. And a ladder line fed dipole would probably
outplay it anyway for most all bands.



Anyway, my vote is ladder line fed dipole for all
bands 80-10. Will need a tuner though.. Or use Cecils's
tunerless method with cut feed line lengths.

Thanx for the response... I myself and leaning the way of the wire die
pole. It appears to be not only the most economical solution, it will
probably give the best results. i also did consider a ground mounted
43 foot DXE Thundebolt MBVA 1UP

SNIP

Hi Michael,

Good advice you've received. However----if you're a newly licensed
Technician, remember the band plans and don't run afoul in the HF bands---

73

Colin

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

On Jun 18, 9:41*am, Colin wrote:
SNIP

Hi Michael,

Good advice you've received. However----if you're a newly licensed
Technician, remember the band plans and don't run afoul in the HF bands---

73

Colin

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

Indeed, I am a brandy new Technician... I plan to upgrade to General
in short order. I decided to space the tests out a few months appart
as I learn. I already knew a good deal of what was on the Technician
exam from my many years of sw dx'ing and homebrewing. I am also up
near eight words per minute with CW, but that is only with the
learning program I have been using on my PC. I never actually sent
any CW :-) My plan is to get my antenns set up and try some phone on
10 meters where the Technicians are allowed with that mode. I also
have a few friends in the area that are hams that I will cut my CW
teeth on :-) I dont have much interest in VHF and UHF, so I have
every intention of securing my General soon. My real interest is 80
and 40 meter DX. As far as the antenna goes... I've decided to string
up a ladder fed diepole. Seems the best way to go for now... Later on
a yagi :-)

On 6/18/2011 5:57 PM, Michael wrote:
On Jun 18, 9:41 am, wrote:
SNIP

Hi Michael,

Good advice you've received. However----if you're a newly licensed
Technician, remember the band plans and don't run afoul in the HF bands---

73

Colin

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

Indeed, I am a brandy new Technician... I plan to upgrade to General
in short order. I decided to space the tests out a few months appart
as I learn. I already knew a good deal of what was on the Technician
exam from my many years of sw dx'ing and homebrewing. I am also up
near eight words per minute with CW, but that is only with the
learning program I have been using on my PC. I never actually sent
any CW :-) My plan is to get my antenns set up and try some phone on
10 meters where the Technicians are allowed with that mode. I also
have a few friends in the area that are hams that I will cut my CW
teeth on :-) I dont have much interest in VHF and UHF, so I have
every intention of securing my General soon. My real interest is 80
and 40 meter DX. As far as the antenna goes... I've decided to string
up a ladder fed diepole. Seems the best way to go for now... Later on
a yagi :-)

Ahh. You are a VHF/UHF/Microwave contester. You just don't know it yet.

tom
K0TAR

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Indeed, I am a brandy new Technician... I plan to upgrade to General
in short order. I decided to space the tests out a few months appart
as I learn. I already knew a good deal of what was on the Technician
exam from my many years of sw dx'ing and homebrewing. I am also up
near eight words per minute with CW, but that is only with the
learning program I have been using on my PC. I never actually sent
any CW :-) My plan is to get my antenns set up and try some phone on
10 meters where the Technicians are allowed with that mode. I also
have a few friends in the area that are hams that I will cut my CW
teeth on :-) I dont have much interest in VHF and UHF, so I have
every intention of securing my General soon. My real interest is 80
and 40 meter DX. As far as the antenna goes... I've decided to string
up a ladder fed diepole. Seems the best way to go for now... Later on
a yagi :-)

Don't try to read too much into the antennas. Unless you can get an 80
meter up to around 100 feet, just about any dipole will work. I like the
Windom or Off center fed antenn myself for an all around antenna. It just
does not work 15 meters or the WARC bands very well.. I have one up and an
80 meter dipole about the same height (about 50 feet) at right angles to
it. Not much differance most of the time, but sometimes one or the other
will be about 10 db beter.

For 80 meters and up, about 130 to 140 feet of wire fed with ladder line and
a good tuner is a good way to go if you want to bring the ladderline into
the tuner.

Depending on how much work it it, you may want to put up a 10 meter dipole
or if possiable make it out of aluminum conduit or such and make it so yo
can rotate it.

As you problay know there is no CW test now. You should have taken the
General written test when you took the other one. Should not have cost any
more at the time and you may have gotten lucky.

It only took me about 30 years to get my triband antenna up.. I was mainly
interisted in weak signal vhf and did have a light weight tower up about 40
feet for that, but it would not hold a triband antenna. Finally moved to
another location and put up a good tower to 60 feet with the triband and
other vhf antennas.

On Jun 19, 10:21*am, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message

...

Indeed, I am a brandy new Technician... I plan to upgrade to General
in short order. *I decided to space the tests out a few months appart
as I learn. *I already knew a good deal of what was on the Technician
exam from my many years of sw dx'ing and homebrewing. *I am also up
near eight words per minute with CW, but that is only with the
learning program I have been using on my PC. *I never actually sent
any CW :-) *My plan is to get my antenns set up and try some phone on
10 meters where the Technicians are allowed with that mode. *I also
have a few friends in the area that are hams that I will cut my CW
teeth on :-) *I dont have much interest in VHF and UHF, so I have
every intention of securing my General soon. *My real interest is 80
and 40 meter DX. *As far as the antenna goes... I've decided to string
up a ladder fed diepole. *Seems the best way to go for now... Later on
a yagi :-)

Don't try to read too much into the antennas. *Unless you can get an 80
meter up to around 100 feet, *just about any dipole will work. *I like the
Windom or Off center fed antenn myself for an all around antenna. *It just
does not work 15 meters or the WARC bands very well.. *I have one up and an
80 meter dipole about the same height (about 50 feet) *at right angles to
it. *Not much differance most of the time, but sometimes one or the other
will be about 10 db beter.

For 80 meters and up, about 130 to 140 feet of wire fed with ladder line and
a good tuner is a good way to go if you want to bring the ladderline into
the tuner.

Depending on how much work it it, you may want to put up a 10 meter dipole
or if possiable make it out of aluminum conduit or such and make it so yo
can rotate it.

As you problay know there is no CW test now. *You should have taken the
General written test when you took the other one. *Should not have cost any
more at the time and you may have gotten lucky.

It only took me about 30 years to get my triband antenna up.. *I was mainly
interisted in weak signal vhf and did have a light weight tower up about 40
feet for that, but it would not hold a triband antenna. *Finally moved to
another location and put up a good tower to 60 feet with the triband and
other vhf antennas.

thanx for all the input... when i went to take my technician exam, i
got through it very quickly... they graded it and asked if i wanted
to take the general exam also... since i had only read the technician
manual, i did not take the ve up on his offer to try the general... i
plan to get the new 2011-2015 general manual and upgrade in the next
few months... in the mean time, i have to work out equipment and set
up issues. i've decided on what radio to get (TS-590s) and going
with a wire dipole... the next issue is earth ground and lightning
protection. my shack is on the second floor of my house. in order to
deal with rf and lighting with my short wave set up, i went with an
inverted L that is grounded to an 8 foot brass rod through the
matching transformer. i dont have any rf problems with this set up
even though my radio is not grounded in the shack. for lightning
protection, i disconnect my coax feed and hang it out the window when
I'm not using the radio. i've already read a pile of stuff on line
already about other people that have had the same problem with a
second floor location, but I'm still not sure what I'm going to do
about grounding the transceiver when I hook it up to a dipole.