Trees as antenna
 

Some years ago experiments have be done using trees as antennas. Where
can I find references about ? Do fellows here known about the results ?

Claude

hi claude,

since trees have a lot of water in them, they do not make good antennas.

joyce.


Claude wrote:

Some years ago experiments have be done using trees as antennas. Where
can I find references about ? Do fellows here known about the results ?

Claude

"Claude Frantz" wrote in message
...
Some years ago experiments have be done using trees as antennas. Where
can I find references about ? Do fellows here known about the results ?

Claude

they are fractal, I think someone might sue you for infringement. :)

How about a couple of Pole Beans fed from the middle, as they grow you can
tune longer bands.


Bill K6TAJ



Claude Frantz wrote:

Some years ago experiments have be done using trees as antennas. Where
can I find references about ? Do fellows here known about the results ?

Claude

On Tue, 18 May 2004 08:58:22 -0500, "Dave VanHorn"
wrote:

they are fractal,

Which then leads to one of many entries to this explicit topic found
in:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...com%26rnum%3D9

Yes; I knew when I made rocks and trees into antennas I was going to get
some flack.
which served ego rather more than technical discussion.

This thread still remains as one of the most comic pieces published in
this group and worth reading the 59 entries. Where the comedy lapses
into technical content (rare), it provides specific information about
plants and RF interaction. I am glad to have run into specific
conductivities comparisons showing how the vaunted "conductivity" of
sea water is 200000 times worse than nichrome (or 10000000 times worse
than copper).

This one was not the only thread confined to this topic, but I would
wager all the rest amount to tedious repetition of the usual
population count of angels on a pin-head.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

By hearsay and legend -- In W W 1, an Army Field manual recommended feeding
a tree for an antenna when the real antennas were shot down.

Since I am not aware of any 50 ohm trees (hi-hi), probably use ladder line
and a tuner.

And remember, as an old timer discovered when he loaded his bed springs ---
RF GOTTA GO SOMEWHERE

Let us know which trees worked best (:-)

--
Caveat Lector Ya All

"Amateur Radio is the best back-up
communications system in the world,
and that's the way it is." -- Walter Cronkite





"zeno" wrote in message ...
How about a couple of Pole Beans fed from the middle, as they grow you can
tune longer bands.


Bill K6TAJ



Claude Frantz wrote:

Some years ago experiments have be done using trees as antennas. Where
can I find references about ? Do fellows here known about the results ?

Claude

....Hmm. Now, if you could figure a way to use 'kudzoo'(sp)...
'Doc

...Hmm. Now, if you could figure a way to use 'kudzoo'(sp)...
'Doc

Yeah, kudzu could have some advantages. Lots of it available, and
you'd probably end up with a dense-fractal design.

It'd have the disadvantage of de-tuning itself every day or so, due to
the rapid growth, unless you transmit with enough power to burn off
the growing tips. Lends a new meaning to "pruning your antenna".

The three rules of growing kudzu:

- Although it's capable of growing on solid concrete, it'll do
somewhat better if there's at least a little soil in the mix.

- Always plant kudzu at night, by the dark of the moon. Otherwise,
your neighbors might figure out what you're doing, and start
throwing rocks at you.

- Fertilization is not required. However, the kutzu vines will
definitely appreciate having the bottoms of the smaller leaves
lubricated with 10W40 motor oil - this reduces abrasion and chafing
when the vines grow rapidly across the ground.

[Taken from an old Whole Earth Catalog]

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Claude Frantz wrote:

Some years ago experiments have be done using trees as antennas. Where
can I find references about ? Do fellows here known about the results ?

Claude

If you feed it with fertilizers containing lots of metallic elements, you should
end up with a tall metallic pole with built in radials (the roots). You should be able
to gamma match it by placing a metallic spike at the appropriate height.
You can trim the branches, however leaving them in place should provide a great deal
more bandwidth. When you move, just cut down the tree, but save a few cuttings
so that you can grow an antenna farm at the new location. With careful
spacing, you might be able to produce some great arrays. I don't know about
feeding them with open wire line, but surely Cecil with find a way. You might
even be able to sell some of the antenna cuttings on e-bay!

Irv VE6BP
--
--------------------------------------
Diagnosed Type II Diabetes March 5 2001
Beating it with diet and exercise!
297/215/210 (to be revised lower)
58"/43"(!)/44" (already lower too!)
--------------------------------------
Visit my HomePage at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv/
Visit my Baby Sofia website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv4/
Visit my OLDTIMERS website at http://members.shaw.ca/finkirv5/
--------------------
Irv Finkleman,
Grampa/Ex-Navy/Old Fart/Ham Radio VE6BP
Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Some years ago experiments have be done using trees as antennas. Where
can I find references about ? Do fellows here known about the results ?

Seems like I remember an article in the 70's in 73 magazine (what else?)
about this very subject. I don't have time to look back thru my old mags., but
I bet the results indicated trees don't work well as antennas. If they did, a
lot more hams would be using them. I don't think I have ever had a contact
with someone using a tree.
73 Gary N4AST

"JGBOYLES" wrote in message
...
Some years ago experiments have be done using trees as antennas. Where
can I find references about ? Do fellows here known about the results ?

Seems like I remember an article in the 70's in 73 magazine (what else?)
about this very subject. I don't have time to look back thru my old
mags., but
I bet the results indicated trees don't work well as antennas. If they
did, a
lot more hams would be using them. I don't think I have ever had a
contact
with someone using a tree.
73 Gary N4AST

Maybe we can open a new branch of science, and solve some knotty problems.

Please, don't say "What a sap!". This is serious: we've got a trunkful of
knowledge here in the group, and we can put the crown on this whole idea.

I'm not just barking at the moon.

Bill

Please, don't say "What a sap!". This is serious: we've got a trunkful of
knowledge here in the group, and we can put the crown on this whole idea.

I'm not just barking at the moon.

Bill


Tough finding many different tree species in OK. But everyone enjoys OK's wide
open spaces.

73,
Chip N1IR

Richard Clark wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 18 May 2004 08:58:22 -0500, "Dave VanHorn"
wrote:

they are fractal,

Which then leads to one of many entries to this explicit topic found
in:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...com%26rnum%3D9

Yes; I knew when I made rocks and trees into antennas I was going to get
some flack.
which served ego rather more than technical discussion.

This thread still remains as one of the most comic pieces published in
this group and worth reading the 59 entries.


It may be the first time Cohen introduced "Jack", one of several of
the Fractal Personalities:

From: (Prozma)
Subject: YET ANOTHER BREAKTHROUGH ON TREES
Date: 1997/01/20
Message-ID: # 1/1
references:
organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
x-admin:



Hello Chip;

I suggest you back off on this W8JITom fellow. He seems to make things
up
that you didn't say and refuses to try something as simple as knocking
a
nail into a tree. Perhaps he lacks the coax cable. I will turn the
filter
back on. Might do well for you to ignore all his responses as few seem
worthwhile.

People have been using trees for clandestine antennas since before
WWII.
As you point out it is not the best of antennas. For him to deny it is
at
least consistent for him.

As for your comment on libraries I heartily commend it. Everyone has
to
keep up if he is an engineer worth his salt. I remember going out of
my
way to get to Tech's library several times a year even when I lived
300
miles away.

Best to You and others here;

Jack

On 18 May 2004 19:56:34 -0700, (k4wge) wrote:
From: (Prozma)
Ah Yes, the Mutt of the Mutt 'n' Jeff comedy act.

Many thanks for all the responses.

I remember that in the experiment I have mentioned, the coupling to the
tree was via an toroidal coil which was mounted around the tree, the
tree beeing in the axis.

Sure, a tree cannot be a good antenna. Any "real" antenna will probably
always be better. But often the question is: no antenna at all or
anything which does not seem to be an antenna. Perhaps a tree can be
such a thing. Further, in portable operation, it is not always easy to
install a "real" antenna.

Claude

I regret I cannot give you an exzact reference but the WIA
magazine Amateur Radio, some years ago had such an article
and the results thereof. It worked quite well for what it was (a tree)
and there were even suggestions as to which species were better than
others! AFAIK it wasn't an April edition.

Some of the gum trees here are 150+ feet high and the trick seemed to
be tapping in at the right level from the ground.

Some unhelpfull folk later suggested the 8' of coax to the matching
network was the radiator :-(

I have no way of finding this info - maybe you can search the net?

Cheers
Murray vk4aok

Claude Frantz wrote:
Many thanks for all the responses.

I remember that in the experiment I have mentioned, the coupling to the
tree was via an toroidal coil which was mounted around the tree, the
tree beeing in the axis.

Sure, a tree cannot be a good antenna. Any "real" antenna will probably
always be better. But often the question is: no antenna at all or
anything which does not seem to be an antenna. Perhaps a tree can be
such a thing. Further, in portable operation, it is not always easy to
install a "real" antenna.

Claude

Sure, a tree cannot be a good antenna. Any "real" antenna will probably
always be better. But often the question is: no antenna at all or
anything which does not seem to be an antenna. Perhaps a tree can be
such a thing. Further, in portable operation, it is not always easy to
install a "real" antenna.

Claude


Trees are, as already noted, usable as VHF antennas when properly
'fed'...whether you should or shouldn't use a tree is your decision. It is
hardly a new idea. Certainly placing a bona fide VHF antenna--in the clear--on
top of the tree is the better of the two options.

The interesting question is: how does a tree compare to a ground-based
monopole?

There is a reason why VHF monopole antennas are not on the ground, whereas MF
ones are.

Experiment for more info. Many have been down this path before. I don't know a
sap or a chump in the bunch.

73,
Chip N1IR

Claude Frantz wrote in message ...
Many thanks for all the responses.

I remember that in the experiment I have mentioned, the coupling to the
tree was via an toroidal coil which was mounted around the tree, the
tree beeing in the axis.

Sure, a tree cannot be a good antenna. Any "real" antenna will probably
always be better. But often the question is: no antenna at all or
anything which does not seem to be an antenna. Perhaps a tree can be
such a thing. Further, in portable operation, it is not always easy to
install a "real" antenna.

Claude

I've seen advertising in QRT for the latest new miracle sticks:

*SAPSUCKER 2000T®*.

and the mighty:

*BARKBURNER 9000TRX-DX®*

Note that the ground qualities will enhance automatically by using
such an treetenna. That is because most all dogs will stop and urinate
against the base of said device. Add a few beer drinking buddies to
the party, and you will be a dx chipper in no time. Squirrels can add
nests, which will act as additional top loading.
Beware of tree beetles, infections, etc.. After a while the treetenna
could become a:
*STUMPSTICK*
Gasp!
These have been proven to be inferior radiators due to the *stumphole
effect* to the rf as it encounters the many rings in the tree stump.
These proceed to turn the rf round and round ,like flushing a toilet,
and ploink, you blow the finals in your rig, due to a massive
*wormwood* pulse that flows back along your feeder to the rig and your
operating position. Usually a desk or table made of wood, which
further increases the potential of damage to the station.

MK

On Tue, 18 May 2004 10:26:59 +0200, Claude Frantz
wrote:

Some years ago experiments have be done using trees as antennas. Where
can I find references about ? Do fellows here known about the results ?

Claude
enter "tree antenna" into GOOGLE GROUPS, 17 000 hits,
needs some additional filtering , but here we go!


I used them trees, while I was a boy, to listen to medium wave radio
stations with my diode detector, a 60 mm nail, a hammer, some wire,
worked great, nail them in about 3 meters height.

S9 + 20 dB, for sure :-)

w.