Reg Edwards wrote:
Reflected power is a mere fiction. Power which is not radiated from an
antenna never actually arrives there. In fact it never leaves the
transmitter.

Therefore, radar cannot work since it relies upon reflected
joules/second. Mirrors also cannot work since there is an ExB
amount of power in those reflections.

Reg, for a 291.5 ohm antenna to accept 100 watts requires the forward
power to the antenna to be 200 watts. 100 watts is accepted by the
antenna and 100 watts is rejected by the antenna. 200 watts to the
antenna is routinely accomplished by a 100 watt ham transmitter and
a Z0-match provided by a tuner.

This is exactly like a partially silvered mirror that reflects half
the irradiance and allows half the irradiance through.

Assume a one second long lossless unterminated transmission line.
Pour 1000 watts into it for one second. During the next second, we
disconnect the line from the source and you grab the two wires, one
in each hand. Then tell us whether reflected power exists or not.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil Moore wrote:

Reg Edwards wrote:

Reflected power is a mere fiction. Power which is not radiated from an
antenna never actually arrives there. In fact it never leaves the
transmitter.


Therefore, radar cannot work since it relies upon reflected
joules/second. Mirrors also cannot work since there is an ExB
amount of power in those reflections.

I made note of this in a thread I just started. Is this a good analogy?
Certainly the signal goes out, hits something and then comes back.
Wouldn't this scramble the signal by some definable amount in an antenna?


Reg, for a 291.5 ohm antenna to accept 100 watts requires the forward
power to the antenna to be 200 watts. 100 watts is accepted by the
antenna and 100 watts is rejected by the antenna. 200 watts to the
antenna is routinely accomplished by a 100 watt ham transmitter and
a Z0-match provided by a tuner.

This is exactly like a partially silvered mirror that reflects half
the irradiance and allows half the irradiance through.

Assume a one second long lossless unterminated transmission line.
Pour 1000 watts into it for one second. During the next second, we
disconnect the line from the source and you grab the two wires, one
in each hand. Then tell us whether reflected power exists or not.

All we have to do is get an antenna that is 186,347.3233361 miles long.
Or would that be 122,989.233401 miles?

At any rate, the answer should be pretty easy to verify by using a very
long but practical sized antenna. Anyone done that?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:
Therefore, radar cannot work since it relies upon reflected
joules/second. Mirrors also cannot work since there is an ExB
amount of power in those reflections.

I made note of this in a thread I just started. Is this a good
analogy? Certainly the signal goes out, hits something and then comes
back. Wouldn't this scramble the signal by some definable amount in an
antenna?

Of course, but the point is that there exists energy as power, ExH,
in the reflected wave. If there is no energy in a reflected wave,
radar wouldn't work. Anyone who says there is no energy in a
reflected wave is just pulling your leg.

Assume a one second long lossless unterminated transmission line.
Pour 1000 watts into it for one second. During the next second, we
disconnect the line from the source and you grab the two wires, one
in each hand. Then tell us whether reflected power exists or not.

At any rate, the answer should be pretty easy to verify by using a
very long but practical sized antenna. Anyone done that?

Anyone who has ever used a TDR on a mismatched transmission line.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
.................................
Of course, but the point is that there exists energy as power, ExH,
in the reflected wave. If there is no energy in a reflected wave,
radar wouldn't work. Anyone who says there is no energy in a
reflected wave is just pulling your leg.

But its not free. If you tap it, it won't be there to re reflect. So, I
think in the steady state you have changed the load impedance. BTW, (not a
joke or sarcasm) Have you heard of Zero Point Energy? They calculate there
is something like 10**26 Joules in a cubic meter of empty space.

Tam/WB2TT

Aviation Week & Space Technology. March 1, 2004. P50.

Tam

Tam/WB2TT wrote:

"Cecil Moore" wrote:
Of course, but the point is that there exists energy as power, ExH,
in the reflected wave. If there is no energy in a reflected wave,
radar wouldn't work. Anyone who says there is no energy in a
reflected wave is just pulling your leg.

But its not free. If you tap it, it won't be there to re reflect. So, I
think in the steady state you have changed the load impedance.

Moral: don't use it up, just use a negligible portion for measurement
purposes. A Bird wattmeter consumes very little actual power.

BTW, (not a
joke or sarcasm) Have you heard of Zero Point Energy? They calculate there
is something like 10**26 Joules in a cubic meter of empty space.

Yes, some people think that is the energy being measured, off and on,
in the cold fusion experiments. The question is: If one taps into
the energy being used to support the structure of space itself,
what happens to that space structure? IMO, space is the result of
the annihilation of matter and anti-matter in the early universe
and certainly still contains that annihilation energy.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil Moore wrote:

Assume a one second long lossless unterminated transmission line.
Pour 1000 watts into it for one second. During the next second, we
disconnect the line from the source and you grab the two wires, one
in each hand. Then tell us whether reflected power exists or not.


So if we had an infinitely long antenna, would the power put into it
last forever?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

Assume a one second long lossless unterminated transmission line.
Pour 1000 watts into it for one second. During the next second, we
disconnect the line from the source and you grab the two wires, one
in each hand. Then tell us whether reflected power exists or not.

So if we had an infinitely long antenna, would the power put into it
last forever?

It would have a feedpoint impedance of around 600 ohms and I
don't know how long it would have to be to eliminate reflections.
A terminated rhombic comes close to the characteristics of an
infinitely long antenna.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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