"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
So the earth is necessary in your radio for the static reasons.
In my also:
"In the lower half of the mast, there was a vertical steel tube, attached
to
the mast's outer structure with large insulators. This tube was grounded
at
the bottom, and connected electrically to the mast structure by an
adjustable metal bar at 328 metres.[2] This technique allowed adjusting
the
impedance of the mast for the transmitter and worked by applying a DC
ground
at a point of low radiofrequency voltage, to conduct static charge to
ground
without diminishing the radio energy. Static electrical charge can build
up
to high values, even at times of no thunderstorm activity, when such tall
structures are insulated from ground. Use of this technique provides
better
lightning protection than using just a spark gap at the mast feed, as is
standard at most mast radiators insulated against ground."
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_radio_tower

It seems to me that the same reasons were in Marconi times.

You have a big problem with comprehending, don't you?
Earlier you wrote that Marconi said that a capacitive coupling to ground
was good for HF grounding and now you want DC coupling to discharge
static electricity. Those two reasons for grounding are completely
different.

Each capacitor has the big surfaces and imperfect insulator between them.
Is it the "DC coupling to discharge static electricity"?

" You have a big problem with comprehending, don't you?"
S*

Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Radio on the Moon has the "earth connection". The Moon is smaller than the
Earth.
Do you think that "the earth" must be giant?

Did we see the Apollo crew hammer a rod into the moon for the purpose
of connecting their radio system to it?

Your mobile phone has earth connection, radio on satellites and planes
have earth connection because they are on the chassis. Accept this and
move on.

You think "a chassis" is "earth connection"?
What is your definition of "earth connection"?

Some antenna systems do have an earth connection, many don't.

All must have.

You are being told NO, by people that know what they are talking about,
and you, the ultimate nitwit, are insisting that it is wrong?

If so, why are you asking the question at all?

Some have them in order to work correctly, some have them for protection
against a lightening strike or a build up of static, some for both. Many
have no earth connection at all.

All must have for protection against the build up of static.
"Static electrical charge can build up to high values, even at times of no
thunderstorm activity,"
S*

On a 628m tall mast, yes. But not on a cellphone.

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
So the earth is necessary in your radio for the static reasons.
In my also:
"In the lower half of the mast, there was a vertical steel tube, attached
to
the mast's outer structure with large insulators. This tube was grounded
at
the bottom, and connected electrically to the mast structure by an
adjustable metal bar at 328 metres.[2] This technique allowed adjusting
the
impedance of the mast for the transmitter and worked by applying a DC
ground
at a point of low radiofrequency voltage, to conduct static charge to
ground
without diminishing the radio energy. Static electrical charge can build
up
to high values, even at times of no thunderstorm activity, when such tall
structures are insulated from ground. Use of this technique provides
better
lightning protection than using just a spark gap at the mast feed, as is
standard at most mast radiators insulated against ground."
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_radio_tower

It seems to me that the same reasons were in Marconi times.

You have a big problem with comprehending, don't you?
Earlier you wrote that Marconi said that a capacitive coupling to ground
was good for HF grounding and now you want DC coupling to discharge
static electricity. Those two reasons for grounding are completely
different.

Each capacitor has the big surfaces and imperfect insulator between them.
Is it the "DC coupling to discharge static electricity"?

No.

Uzytkownik "Jeff" napisal w wiadomosci
...


How many times do you need to be told? NO IT IS NOT TRUE, Marconi may
have
been correct when he made the statement considering the equipment and
practices at the time, BUT he was not correct as a statement concerning
radio systems in general. Things move on. Your mobile phone has no earth
connection, satellites have no earth connection. Accept this and move
on.

Radio on the Moon has the "earth connection". The Moon is smaller than
the
Earth.
Do you think that "the earth" must be giant?

You are misinterpreting what is meant by an 'Earth Connection'. Marconi
was referring to a direct connection to the soil, either by means of an
earth stake or wires buried in the ground.

Marconi explained what the 'Earth Connection' is:

""By "connected to earth" I do not necessarily mean an ordinary metallic
connection as used for ordinary wire telegraphs.
The earth wire may have a condenser in series with it, or it may be
connected to what is really equivalent, a capacity area placed close to the
surface of the ground (Fig. 4).
It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does not
prevent the passage of high frequency oscillations, and therefore in these
cases the earth is for all practical purposes connected to the antennae."

Your mobile phone has earth connection, radio on satellites and planes
have earth connection because they are on the chassis. Accept this and
move on.

No they don't have an 'earth connection'. The chassis is not an 'Earth
Connection'. Anyway it is perfectly possible the build a radio without any
connection to a chassis whatso ever and use a balanced antenna that also
requires no chassis or earth connection.

Accept the fact that earth connections are NOT required.

Are you better than Marconi?
S*

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...


"Ian" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
...

Is even one textbooks where is wrote that Marconi was WRONG?

Are your transmitters without any earth?

I am checking from time to time if your knowledge have moved on.
S*


Hello Szczepan.

In general, you seem to be looking at outdated techniques and technology.

My radio doesn't need to be connected to ground/earth other than for
static/lightning reasons. The theory and technology of radio have made a
lot of progress since the time of Marconi.

Hope this is of some help.
Kindest regards from the UK,
Ian.

# Hello Ian,
#
# So the earth is necessary in your radio for the static reasons.
# In my also:
# "In the lower half of the mast, there was a vertical steel tube, attached
to
# the mast's outer structure with large insulators. This tube was grounded
at
# the bottom, and connected electrically to the mast structure by an
# adjustable metal bar at 328 metres.[2] This technique allowed adjusting
the
# impedance of the mast for the transmitter and worked by applying a DC
ground
# at a point of low radiofrequency voltage, to conduct static charge to
ground
# without diminishing the radio energy. Static electrical charge can build
up
# to high values, even at times of no thunderstorm activity, when such tall
# structures are insulated from ground. Use of this technique provides
better
# lightning protection than using just a spark gap at the mast feed, as is
# standard at most mast radiators insulated against ground."
# From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_radio_tower
#
# It seems to me that the same reasons were in Marconi times.
#
# So I repeat my question:
#
# ""The necessity or utility of the earth connection has been sometimes
# questioned, but in my opinion no practical system of wireless telegraphy
# exists
# where the instruments are not connected to earth."(Marconi in 1909).
#
# It is still true?
# S*

The answer is still NO. As pointed out by several others, there are
gazillions of radios operating without an "earth ground".

If one wants to connect an antenna to ground for lightning protection
reasons, that has nothing at all to do with antenna radiation.

Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Accept the fact that earth connections are NOT required.

Are you better than Marconi?
S*

Marconi made an incorrect claim, a claim we now know that is not true.
So, now we are better than Marconi be cause we all (except you) know that.
But that is not surprising after a century of evolution, isn't it.

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

So the earth is necessary in your radio for the static reasons.

You have no clue what he is talking about.

In my also:
"In the lower half of the mast, there was a vertical steel tube, attached to
the mast's outer structure with large insulators. This tube was grounded at
the bottom, and connected electrically to the mast structure by an
adjustable metal bar at 328 metres.[2] This technique allowed adjusting the
impedance of the mast for the transmitter and worked by applying a DC ground
at a point of low radiofrequency voltage, to conduct static charge to ground
without diminishing the radio energy. Static electrical charge can build up
to high values, even at times of no thunderstorm activity, when such tall
structures are insulated from ground. Use of this technique provides better
lightning protection than using just a spark gap at the mast feed, as is
standard at most mast radiators insulated against ground."
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_radio_tower

It seems to me that the same reasons were in Marconi times.

So I repeat my question:

""The necessity or utility of the earth connection has been sometimes
questioned, but in my opinion no practical system of wireless telegraphy
exists
where the instruments are not connected to earth."(Marconi in 1909).

It is still true?
S*

It never was generally true.

You have been told this many times now.

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Radio on the Moon has the "earth connection". The Moon is smaller than the
Earth.
Do you think that "the earth" must be giant?

Idiot, meaningless babble.

Your mobile phone has earth connection, radio on satellites and planes
have earth connection because they are on the chassis. Accept this and
move on.

Some antenna systems do have an earth connection, many don't.

All must have.

No, that has never been true and you have been told so many times now.

You are a babbling idiot.

All must have for protection against the build up of static.

No, that is not always true either.

"Static electrical charge can build up to high values, even at times of no
thunderstorm activity,"
S*

Where is the ground on the Pioneer spacecraft at the edge of the solar system?

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Uzytkownik "Jeff" napisal w wiadomosci
...


How many times do you need to be told? NO IT IS NOT TRUE, Marconi may
have
been correct when he made the statement considering the equipment and
practices at the time, BUT he was not correct as a statement concerning
radio systems in general. Things move on. Your mobile phone has no earth
connection, satellites have no earth connection. Accept this and move
on.

Radio on the Moon has the "earth connection". The Moon is smaller than
the
Earth.
Do you think that "the earth" must be giant?

You are misinterpreting what is meant by an 'Earth Connection'. Marconi
was referring to a direct connection to the soil, either by means of an
earth stake or wires buried in the ground.

Marconi explained what the 'Earth Connection' is:

""By "connected to earth" I do not necessarily mean an ordinary metallic
connection as used for ordinary wire telegraphs.
The earth wire may have a condenser in series with it, or it may be
connected to what is really equivalent, a capacity area placed close to the
surface of the ground (Fig. 4).
It is now perfectly well known that a condenser, if large enough, does not
prevent the passage of high frequency oscillations, and therefore in these
cases the earth is for all practical purposes connected to the antennae."

That is still a connection to the ground, you babbling idiot.

Your mobile phone has earth connection, radio on satellites and planes
have earth connection because they are on the chassis. Accept this and
move on.

No they don't have an 'earth connection'. The chassis is not an 'Earth
Connection'. Anyway it is perfectly possible the build a radio without any
connection to a chassis whatso ever and use a balanced antenna that also
requires no chassis or earth connection.

Accept the fact that earth connections are NOT required.

Are you better than Marconi?

Marconi did not have all the information we have today and therefor what he
said is NOT generally true but limited to some very specific situations.

Marconi was WRONG, you idiot.

Marconi was WRONG, you idiot.

Marconi was WRONG, you idiot.

Marconi was WRONG, you idiot.

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Each capacitor has the big surfaces and imperfect insulator between them.

Wrong.

Is it the "DC coupling to discharge static electricity"?

Usually that and nothing more.

Marconi was WRONG.

Marconi was WRONG.