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"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: I believe in each your word. But I simply do not know where in your equipment the "large conductor" is. In your statements, you never specify what a "large conductor" is. Here you a "". In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of current without changing its potential. Where a real ground connection has a significant resistance, the approximation of zero potential is no longer valid. Stray voltages or earth potential rise effects will occur, which may create noise in signals or if large enough will produce an electric shock hazard. The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles such as ships, aircraft, and spacecraft may be spoken of as having a "ground" connection without any actual connection to the Earth. This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which serves as the common return path for current from many different components in the circuit." From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity) Today, transmitters are often very small and still they work OK without any earth connection. How large should a "large conductor" be? Adequate to electron emission. Probably it is the coax: "Many conventional coaxial cables use braided copper wire forming the shield". The transmitted signal flows only along the inside of the shield of the coax. The outside is supposed to carry no signal. If it does, there is a problem with the antenna system. The outside is the "large conductor". I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary coil is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air. Why is it impossible? S* We do not operate our transmitters in the region where electrons start flowing into the air, because we do not like arcing. Tesla did, but he was in a different business. Electron do not start. Electrons are flowing into the air (and vacuum) at each voltage. The thin wire is the best "cold cathode". What are your antennas made of? S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Today, transmitters are often very small and still they work OK without any earth connection. How large should a "large conductor" be? Adequate to electron emission. Transmitters do not emit electrons. They emit electromagnetic waves. You only see electric current in the feed to the antenna, not externally. When the antenna is not driven relative to earth, this is not causing current into the earth, and so no connection to earth is required. Probably it is the coax: "Many conventional coaxial cables use braided copper wire forming the shield". The transmitted signal flows only along the inside of the shield of the coax. The outside is supposed to carry no signal. If it does, there is a problem with the antenna system. The outside is the "large conductor". But in my cellphone, the coax feeding the antenna is maybe only 1cm long, or even shorter. How can you call it a "large conductor"? I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary coil is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air. Why is it impossible? S* We do not operate our transmitters in the region where electrons start flowing into the air, because we do not like arcing. Tesla did, but he was in a different business. Electron do not start. Electrons are flowing into the air (and vacuum) at each voltage. The thin wire is the best "cold cathode". What current do you measure in a wire connected to your 12v car battery, and hanging freely into the air? This is the current caused by your electrons flowing into the air. |
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"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: Today, transmitters are often very small and still they work OK without any earth connection. How large should a "large conductor" be? Adequate to electron emission. Transmitters do not emit electrons. "Negative corona take place at each voltage: "A corona is a process by which a current, perhaps sustained, develops between two high-potential electrodes in a neutral fluid, usually air, by ionising that fluid so as to create a plasma around one electrode, and by using the ions generated in plasma-processes as the charge carriers to the other electrode. Corona discharge usually involves two asymmetric electrodes, one highly curved (such as the tip of a needle, or a narrow wire) and one of low curvature (such as a plate, or the ground). The high curvature ensures a high potential gradient around one electrode, for the generation of a plasma. Coronas may be positive, or negative. This is determined by the polarity of the voltage on the highly-curved electrode. If the curved electrode is positive with respect to the flat electrode we say we have a positive corona, if negative we say we have a negative corona. The physics of positive and negative coronas are strikingly different. This asymmetry is a result of the great difference in mass between electrons and positively charged ions, and so only the electron having the ability to undergo a significant degree of ionising inelastic collision at common temperatures and pressures. An important reason for considering coronas is the production of ozone around conductors undergoing corona processes. A negative corona generates much more ozone than the corresponding positive corona. " From: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Corona_discharge "the tip of a needle, or a narrow wire" is a source of the "cathode rays". They were identyfied in 1895." They emit electromagnetic waves. You only see electric current in the feed to the antenna, not externally. And what about the "displacement current? When the antenna is not driven relative to earth, this is not causing current into the earth, and so no connection to earth is required. Probably it is the coax: "Many conventional coaxial cables use braided copper wire forming the shield". The transmitted signal flows only along the inside of the shield of the coax. The outside is supposed to carry no signal. If it does, there is a problem with the antenna system. The outside is the "large conductor". But in my cellphone, the coax feeding the antenna is maybe only 1cm long, or even shorter. How can you call it a "large conductor"? "Large enough." I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary coil is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air. Why is it impossible? S* We do not operate our transmitters in the region where electrons start flowing into the air, because we do not like arcing. Tesla did, but he was in a different business. Electron do not start. Electrons are flowing into the air (and vacuum) at each voltage. The thin wire is the best "cold cathode". What current do you measure in a wire connected to your 12v car battery, and hanging freely into the air? This is the current caused by your electrons flowing into the air. ""the tip of a needle, or a narrow wire" is a source of the electrons. For 12 V it should be the nanometers. Take a rest. S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: In todays world of circuit boards, there is often no chassis. Most portable equipment these days is a circuit board in a plastic box. "This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) " Which does not exist on all printed circuit boards. You are again attempting to make something that sometimes exists into something that allways exists. No chassis. No ground, as in to the Earth, connection. The "large conductor" works as the earth. On many modern circuit boards there is no large conductor. You are a babbling idiot. |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Rob" napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) " The "large conductor" works as the earth. S* So you agree that a transmitter needs no connection to the earth? Of course YES. The "large conductor" is enough. There is no "large conductor" on many modern circuit boards so you are wrong yet again. |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
I believe in each your word. But I simply do not know where in your equipment the "large conductor" is. Because, you babbling idiot, in many cases the "large conductor" you are obbsessing over doesn't exist. Probably it is the coax: "Many conventional coaxial cables use braided copper wire forming the shield". Wrong again; most portable radios have no need for any coax, I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary coil is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air. This is gibberish. Why is it impossible? What is what impossible? The only thing I see that is impossible is for you to understand anything. |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: I believe in each your word. But I simply do not know where in your equipment the "large conductor" is. In your statements, you never specify what a "large conductor" is. Here you a "". In electronic circuit theory, a "ground" is usually idealized as an infinite source or sink for charge, which can absorb an unlimited amount of current without changing its potential. Where a real ground connection has a significant resistance, the approximation of zero potential is no longer valid. Stray voltages or earth potential rise effects will occur, which may create noise in signals or if large enough will produce an electric shock hazard. The use of the term ground (or earth) is so common in electrical and electronics applications that circuits in portable electronic devices such as cell phones and media players as well as circuits in vehicles such as ships, aircraft, and spacecraft may be spoken of as having a "ground" connection without any actual connection to the Earth. This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) which serves as the common return path for current from many different components in the circuit." From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_(electricity) In this case what is being discussed is electrical safety, not radio. Portable radios do not have a "large conductor". Portable radios do not have a "large conductor". Today, transmitters are often very small and still they work OK without any earth connection. How large should a "large conductor" be? Adequate to electron emission. There is no electron emission. Probably it is the coax: "Many conventional coaxial cables use braided copper wire forming the shield". The transmitted signal flows only along the inside of the shield of the coax. The outside is supposed to carry no signal. If it does, there is a problem with the antenna system. The outside is the "large conductor". Portable radios do not have coax. I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary coil is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air. Why is it impossible? S* We do not operate our transmitters in the region where electrons start flowing into the air, because we do not like arcing. Tesla did, but he was in a different business. Electron do not start. Electrons are flowing into the air (and vacuum) at each voltage. No, they are not. The thin wire is the best "cold cathode". Gibberish. What are your antennas made of? Usually aluminum tubing or copper wire for fixed antennas and usually chrome plated steel for portable antennas. Antennas do not have a chassis. |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: Today, transmitters are often very small and still they work OK without any earth connection. How large should a "large conductor" be? Adequate to electron emission. Transmitters do not emit electrons. "Negative corona take place at each voltage: No, it does not. Corona only occurs with sufficiently high voltages. The voltages on most antennas is no where high enough to cause corona. "A corona is a process by which a current, perhaps sustained, develops between two high-potential electrodes There you have it: "two high-potential electrodes". snip But in my cellphone, the coax feeding the antenna is maybe only 1cm long, or even shorter. How can you call it a "large conductor"? "Large enough." There is no coax in my cellphone, my 2M handheld, or my aviation handheld. The cases of all of them are plastic and there is no "large conductor" nor is there any "ground plane". Yet they all work. You are a babbling idiot. snip ""the tip of a needle, or a narrow wire" is a source of the electrons. For 12 V it should be the nanometers. For 12V there is no corona as the voltage is too low to initiate a corona no matter how small a tip you put on the wire. Take a rest. Get therapy. |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"W5DXP" napisal w wiadomosci ... On Apr 19, 3:13 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote: I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary coil is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air. Why is it impossible? Because RF EM waves are not made up of electrons. The particles that are flowing in an RF EM wave are photons. RF waves travel at the speed of light. Electrons cannot travel at the speed of light. Electron waves travel. Electrons have different speeds like the all gases. There are no "Electron waves". Comparing free electrons to gases is idiotic. If Tesla actually believed that an RF wave consists of electron flow, he was simply ignorant of quantum electrodynamics. That may be the reason why he failed to transfer large amounts of power through the air in an efficient manner. He wrote that for this you must use the higher frequency than was possible in his time. Nonsense. Now all transfer large amounts of power through the air in an efficient manner. More nonsense. Light is an example. But now we have the free electron laser. Yet more nonsense. You are a babbling idiot. |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
I also belive in each Tesla's word. He discovered that in his secondary coil is the oscillatory electron flow from the earth into the air. This is gibberish. Hello folks. Anyone understand what Szczepan means by "oscillatory electron flow", please? I'm assuming he means a sine wave or a push-pull current. Regards, Ian. |
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wrote in message
... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "Rob" napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) " The "large conductor" works as the earth. S* So you agree that a transmitter needs no connection to the earth? Of course YES. The "large conductor" is enough. There is no "large conductor" on many modern circuit boards so you are wrong yet again. Hello jimp. Pity he can't define "large" or understand "ground". |
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Ian wrote:
Anyone understand what Szczepan means by "oscillatory electron flow", please? I'm assuming he means a sine wave or a push-pull current. It has no conventional meaning. He probably found the phrase in some speculative writtings of someone who has been dead for at least 100 years. |
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wrote in message
... Ian wrote: Anyone understand what Szczepan means by "oscillatory electron flow", please? I'm assuming he means a sine wave or a push-pull current. It has no conventional meaning. He probably found the phrase in some speculative writtings of someone who has been dead for at least 100 years. Thanks for that info. I was starting to wonder if I'd missed something. |
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On Apr 19, 11:15*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
Electron waves travel. No doubt, and please give an example of an electron wave. One more time. It is impossible for electrons to travel at the speed of light. But RF EM waves travel at the speed of light. Therefore, it is impossible for RF waves to consist of electrons. Electrons act as a bucket brigade for "buckets" of photons. -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com |
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On Apr 19, 12:08*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
And what about the "displacement current? If Maxwell had known about photons, he would never have invented displacement current. Assume we have an ideal transmission line terminated in an ideal capacitor with two plates. It's easy to prove that the displacement current flowing from one plate back up the transmission line, through the source, back down the transmission line onto the other capacitor plate has to be traveling much faster than the speed of light. Does that give anyone pause to question the very existence of "displacement current" in reality? -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com |
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On Apr 19, 12:43*pm, "Ian"
wrote: Anyone understand what Szczepan means by "oscillatory electron flow", please? Back when physicists and engineers were ignorant of the existence of photons, that was the best they could do to explain electromagnetic fields surrounding free electrons being energized by AC signals. Nowadays, we know that at RF, the electrons oscillate virtually in place and it is the photons that are responsible for energy transfer (flow). -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com |
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On Apr 19, 12:39*pm, wrote:
There are no "Electron waves". Probably not in ham radio but a single electron exhibits the same wave behavior as a photon in double-slit experiments, i.e. a single electron seems to go through both slits and interfere with itself on the other side. That is wave behavior. Strangely enough, a single very large Buckyball exhibits similar wave behavior. -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com |
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W5DXP wrote:
On Apr 19, 12:39Â*pm, wrote: There are no "Electron waves". Probably not in ham radio but a single electron exhibits the same wave behavior as a photon in double-slit experiments, i.e. a single electron seems to go through both slits and interfere with itself on the other side. That is wave behavior. Strangely enough, a single very large Buckyball exhibits similar wave behavior. -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com While I do not disagree with what you said, note the 's' in "Electron waves". A particle may have some wave properties but that does not make it a wave. |
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"W5DXP" napisal w wiadomosci ... On Apr 19, 12:43 pm, "Ian" wrote: Anyone understand what Szczepan means by "oscillatory electron flow", please? Back when physicists and engineers were ignorant of the existence of photons, that was the best they could do to explain electromagnetic fields surrounding free electrons being energized by AC signals. Nowadays, we know that at RF, the electrons oscillate virtually in place Each of them is in small fixed box and oscillate? and it is the photons that are responsible for energy transfer (flow). Each waves transport mass and energy. The oscillations are not simmetrical. S* |
The earth
napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) ". From Wiki. On many modern circuit boards there is no large conductor. You are a babbling idiot. Not me but the Autor of Wiki. S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) ". From Wiki. On many modern circuit boards there is no large conductor. You are a babbling idiot. Not me but the Autor of Wiki. S* The main problem is not in the articles, but in the strange way you interpret them. The article about ground explains what is wrong with your reasoning, but you still don't get it. |
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"W5DXP" napisal w wiadomosci ... On Apr 19, 11:15 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote: Electron waves travel. No doubt, and please give an example of an electron wave. "Waves in plasmas can be classified as electromagnetic or electrostatic according to whether or not there is an oscillating magnetic field. Applying Faraday's law of induction to plane waves, we find , implying that an electrostatic wave must be purely longitudinal. An electromagnetic wave, in contrast, must have a transverse component, but may also be partially longitudinal." " A plasma is a quasineutral, electrically conductive fluid. In the simplest case, it is composed of electrons and a single species of positive ions," From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...classification One more time. It is impossible for electrons to travel at the speed of light. But RF EM waves travel at the speed of light. Therefore, it is impossible for RF waves to consist of electrons. Electrons act as a bucket brigade for "buckets" of photons. In the space is the rare plasma. There are the acoustic waves and the electron waves. S* |
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"W5DXP" napisal w wiadomosci ... On Apr 19, 12:08 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote: And what about the "displacement current? If Maxwell had known about photons, he would never have invented displacement current. Displacement current = small restricted motions of charges in dielectricts in altrnate electric field. It be always true.. Assume we have an ideal transmission line terminated in an ideal capacitor with two plates. It's easy to prove that the displacement current flowing from one plate back up the transmission line, through the source, back down the transmission line onto the other capacitor plate has to be traveling much faster than the speed of light. Does that give anyone pause to question the very existence of "displacement current" in reality? What is the source of the heat in microwave oven? S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
What is the source of the heat in microwave oven? Marconi did not have a microwave oven! |
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On Apr 19, 9:56*pm, wrote:
A particle may have some wave properties but that does not make it a wave.. It makes it possess the wave-particle duality function. There is nothing in physics to prohibit electron waves traveling at sub-light speeds. But it is impossible for an electron wave to travel at the speed of light. Yet we know that RF waves travel at the speed of light. Therefore, RF waves cannot be made up of electrons. Here's two of many web pages about electron waves: http://www.rodenburg.org/theory/y100.html http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/debrog.html |
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On Apr 20, 2:50*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
What is the source of the heat in microwave oven? The Big Bang is the source of all energy in the universe. :) Microwave photons are the immediate cause of heating in a microwave oven. If you don't believe that photons can cause heating, go stand in front of an active radar dish. -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com |
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"W5DXP" napisal w wiadomosci ... On Apr 20, 2:50 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote: What is the source of the heat in microwave oven? The Big Bang is the source of all energy in the universe. :) Microwave photons are the immediate cause of heating in a microwave oven. Photons are the wave packets. It apply only to natural light and the damped radio waves. Todays radio waves are continuous. If you don't believe that photons can cause heating, go stand in front of an active radar dish. There are the "oscilltory flow of electrons". S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
If you don't believe that photons can cause heating, go stand in front of an active radar dish. There are the "oscilltory flow of electrons". S* No. The same effect occurs when you put the dish in vacuum. |
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"W5DXP" napisal w wiadomosci ... On Apr 19, 9:56 pm, wrote: A particle may have some wave properties but that does not make it a wave. It makes it possess the wave-particle duality function. "the wave-particle duality" is used only in textbooks. There is nothing in physics to prohibit electron waves traveling at sub-light speeds. Electron waves travel in the Dirac electron sea with the speed of light. Like the sound waves in the air. In space are ions and electrons (rare plasma). Electron waves travel from the Sun about 8 minute and the acoustic (ion waves) a few days. S* |
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"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: If you don't believe that photons can cause heating, go stand in front of an active radar dish. There are the "oscilltory flow of electrons". S* No. The same effect occurs when you put the dish in vacuum. In vacuum is rare plasma (ions and electrons). Plasma is a conductor. The electrons are free to move. S* |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
"Rob" napisal w wiadomosci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: If you don't believe that photons can cause heating, go stand in front of an active radar dish. There are the "oscilltory flow of electrons". S* No. The same effect occurs when you put the dish in vacuum. In vacuum is rare plasma (ions and electrons). Plasma is a conductor. The electrons are free to move. S* If the propagation of electromagnetic waves would be dependent on residual electrons present in the imperfect vacuum (like in space), there would be a tendency for propagation to become worse when the vacuum would be more and more perfect. There is no such effect ever observed. |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
What is the source of the heat in microwave oven? Resistive loss. |
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Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisa? w wiadomo?ci ... Szczepan Bialek wrote: "This is usually a large conductor attached to one side of the power supply (such as the "ground plane" on a printed circuit board) ". From Wiki. On many modern circuit boards there is no large conductor. You are a babbling idiot. Not me but the Autor of Wiki. What is an "Autor". You are a babbling idiot. |
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On Apr 20, 10:59*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
(re radar) There are the "oscilltory flow of electrons". Sorry about your theory but radar signals travel at the speed of light, a feat that is impossible for electrons. -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com |
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On Apr 20, 11:08*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
Electron waves travel in the Dirac electron sea with the speed of light. Like the sound waves in the air. Since each individual electron's mass would be infinite, I guess that's where black holes come from. -- 73, Cecil, w5dxp.com |
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On 4/20/2012 10:59 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisal w wiadomosci ... On Apr 20, 2:50 am, "Szczepan wrote: What is the source of the heat in microwave oven? The Big Bang is the source of all energy in the universe. :) Microwave photons are the immediate cause of heating in a microwave oven. Photons are the wave packets. It apply only to natural light and the damped radio waves. Todays radio waves are continuous. So you are saying that modulation can't work? tom K0TAR |
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"tom" napisal w wiadomosci . net... On 4/20/2012 10:59 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote: napisal w wiadomosci ... On Apr 20, 2:50 am, "Szczepan wrote: What is the source of the heat in microwave oven? The Big Bang is the source of all energy in the universe. :) Microwave photons are the immediate cause of heating in a microwave oven. Photons are the wave packets. It apply only to natural light and the damped radio waves. Todays radio waves are continuous. So you are saying that modulation can't work? Continuous waves are opposite to damped waves. Continuous with the changde amplitudes are AM (amplitude modulation) or FM. S* |
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"W5DXP" napisal w wiadomosci ... On Apr 20, 10:59 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote: (re radar) There are the "oscilltory flow of electrons". Sorry about your theory but radar signals travel at the speed of light, a feat that is impossible for electrons. Wind is like the electron beam. They travel with the "wind' speed. The sound and electron waves like the oscillating species (electrons or molecules). They travel with the wave speed. S* |
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