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Power bar noise filter???
Anyone have good success with a noise filter power bar? I am looking at the
Monster Power Blackout HDP 660. I am getting a lot of electrical noise, RFI and I know some comes from the TV, but when TV is off there is still some anoying noise that I am thinking a EMI RFI Noice filter would help to reduce this. The rig is 40 years old. Anyone have any cheap comments regarding any power bar or surge protector that have the best RFI EMI noice filtering? Thanks 73s |
Power bar noise filter???
On Tue, 8 May 2012 20:05:18 -0400, " Tuuk"
wrote: Anyone have good success with a noise filter power bar? I am looking at the Monster Power Blackout HDP 660. I am getting a lot of electrical noise, RFI and I know some comes from the TV, but when TV is off there is still some anoying noise that I am thinking a EMI RFI Noice filter would help to reduce this. The rig is 40 years old. Anyone have any cheap comments regarding any power bar or surge protector that have the best RFI EMI noice filtering? Probably a dumb question, but is the noise for sure coming in through the rigs power plug? You took off the antenna and the noise is still there right? Cause if it's gone with the ant off a power line filter won't help much. |
Power bar noise filter???
On 5/8/2012 7:05 PM, Tuuk wrote:
Anyone have good success with a noise filter power bar? I am looking at the Monster Power Blackout HDP 660. I am getting a lot of electrical noise, RFI and I know some comes from the TV, but when TV is off there is still some anoying noise that I am thinking a EMI RFI Noice filter would help to reduce this. The rig is 40 years old. Anyone have any cheap comments regarding any power bar or surge protector that have the best RFI EMI noice filtering? Thanks 73s Monster products are something any EE wishes they thought of, but none of them did because they are a ripoff, at least from the price/performance perspective and engineers normally aren't in that business. Oxygen free copper, ways of winding the strands so they work better, all BS when it comes to signal delivery and the ability of the human ear to perceive it. It's almost as bad as damping factor. I love the line voltage regulators they sell. Like the voltage regulators in every single piece of equipment plugged into the line don't work. tom K0TAR |
Power bar noise filter???
On 5/8/2012 8:13 PM, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 8 May 2012 20:05:18 -0400, " wrote: Anyone have good success with a noise filter power bar? I am looking at the Monster Power Blackout HDP 660. I am getting a lot of electrical noise, RFI and I know some comes from the TV, but when TV is off there is still some anoying noise that I am thinking a EMI RFI Noice filter would help to reduce this. The rig is 40 years old. Anyone have any cheap comments regarding any power bar or surge protector that have the best RFI EMI noice filtering? Probably a dumb question, but is the noise for sure coming in through the rigs power plug? You took off the antenna and the noise is still there right? Cause if it's gone with the ant off a power line filter won't help much. Those types of products are something any EE wishes they thought of, but none of them did because they are a ripoff, at least from the price/performance perspective and engineers normally aren't in that business. Oxygen free copper, ways of winding the strands so they work better, all BS when it comes to signal delivery and the ability of the human ear to perceive it. It's almost as bad as damping factor being meaningful. I love the line voltage regulators that some sell. Like the voltage regulators in every single piece of equipment plugged into the line don't work. tom K0TAR |
Power bar noise filter???
I agree with the comments here. I doubt you will get success with this
product or improvements with any Monster product. I had a microwave that made noise in my receiver, a lot. It was coming in from the antenna, not the power line. I figured the microwave was radiating noise into the power line and thence to my antenna. I took the microwave apart and installed an inductor capacitor module to suppress the noise within the steel cabinet. That worked. These modules are not cheap, even on ebay. Getting a module like this for 15 amps cost me 27 bucks on ebay. \ Once you let the noise out of the enclosure into a power cord, the power cord will radiate even if there is any suppression at all in an external filter. Like I said, you will need an inductor capacitor filter mounted inside your tv or other device that is radiating emi. Most people are unwilling to get that serious about things. There is another horrible possibility. A friend who lived in an apartment got terrible noise from an adjacent apartment that had a large plasma tv. LCD tvs don't do this. The noise was actually radiating directly from the screen. Nothing to be done. He got them to take back their new tv for full credit and buy an lcd tv. He sweetened the deal with 100 bucks. LCD tvs generally cost a bit more than plasma. As was already said, take off the antenna and if the noise goes away, a power line filter will do nothing. Michael On 5/8/2012 7:05 PM, Tuuk wrote: Anyone have good success with a noise filter power bar? I am looking at the Monster Power Blackout HDP 660. I am getting a lot of electrical noise, RFI and I know some comes from the TV, but when TV is off there is still some anoying noise that I am thinking a EMI RFI Noice filter would help to reduce this. The rig is 40 years old. Anyone have any cheap comments regarding any power bar or surge protector that have the best RFI EMI noice filtering? Thanks 73s |
Power bar noise filter???
"Boomer" wrote in message ... snip As was already said, take off the antenna and if the noise goes away, a power line filter will do nothing. Michael Just a skoshie clarification, if I may. Can we please restate that that only applies to power line filtering on the victim device? You said it nicely in your earlier text, but the summary sentence [quoted] left an opening for the reader possibly to rule out all power line filtering. I hope this helps. "Sal" (a 20 year NARTE-certified EMC engineer in my working days.) |
Power bar noise filter???
You haven't yet said if you tried disconnecting the antenna and whether
or not the noise was still there. That's the first test, and the best way to determine if the noise is coming through the power line or the antenna. Irv VE6BP "AJL" wrote in message ... On Tue, 8 May 2012 20:05:18 -0400, " Tuuk" wrote: Anyone have good success with a noise filter power bar? I am looking at the Monster Power Blackout HDP 660. I am getting a lot of electrical noise, RFI and I know some comes from the TV, but when TV is off there is still some anoying noise that I am thinking a EMI RFI Noice filter would help to reduce this. The rig is 40 years old. Anyone have any cheap comments regarding any power bar or surge protector that have the best RFI EMI noice filtering? Probably a dumb question, but is the noise for sure coming in through the rigs power plug? You took off the antenna and the noise is still there right? Cause if it's gone with the ant off a power line filter won't help much. |
Power bar noise filter???
On 5/9/2012 8:25 PM, Irv Finkleman wrote:
You haven't yet said if you tried disconnecting the antenna and whether or not the noise was still there. That's the first test, and the best way to determine if the noise is coming through the power line or the antenna. Irv VE6BP Thanks for following it as a trail, Irv. It's nice to see things going that way here again. tom K0TAR |
Power bar noise filter???
Sometimes we forgot the advice suggested in earlier
posts which might have cleared the problem or put us on the right track. It was a very worthy point and I just wanted to be sure AJL followed up on it. It is nice to see things running smooth here again. I truly consider this one of the best groups available for hams -- antennas are sometimes very difficult to understand and I've seen a lot of positive advice here -- and learned a lot as well! Irv VE6BP "tom" wrote in message . net... On 5/9/2012 8:25 PM, Irv Finkleman wrote: You haven't yet said if you tried disconnecting the antenna and whether or not the noise was still there. That's the first test, and the best way to determine if the noise is coming through the power line or the antenna. Irv VE6BP Thanks for following it as a trail, Irv. It's nice to see things going that way here again. tom K0TAR |
Power bar noise filter???
On 5/9/2012 9:24 PM, tom wrote:
On 5/9/2012 8:25 PM, Irv Finkleman wrote: You haven't yet said if you tried disconnecting the antenna and whether or not the noise was still there. That's the first test, and the best way to determine if the noise is coming through the power line or the antenna. Irv VE6BP Thanks for following it as a trail, Irv. It's nice to see things going that way here again. tom K0TAR It's quite possible that poor or no feed line decoupling could be a culprit also. With no decoupling, the coax will pick up shack/house noise on the outer side of the shield, and pipe it back to the receiver on the inside of the shield. Assuming coax anyway.. Of course, far off noise is more likely to be received by the antenna itself, and even a system with a decoupled feed line would still receive the noise. |
Power bar noise filter???
On Tue, 8 May 2012 20:05:18 -0400, " Tuuk"
wrote: Anyone have any cheap comments regarding any power bar or surge protector that have the best RFI EMI noice filtering? A power bar isn't going to help much: http://www.powerbarstore.com As others have suggested, find the source of the noise, and then think about solutions. In my house, it's the multitude of wall warts and switching power supplies that generates the bulk of the noise. These switchers turn off when not charging or powering anything. So, no noise when they're plugged in, but not being used. Consider using clamp-on split ferrite filters if you suspect that the noise is being conducted down the power line. Light reading: http://audiosystemsgroup.com/SAC0305Ferrites.pdf Although the article is on audio noise suppression, it applies equally well to RF noise suppression. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Power bar noise filter???
Thanks for the great advice, I never thought about unhooking the coax to
eliminate that but I know there is also noise coming from the plazma tv, when it is on, I hear the static, and it immediately stops the static when the TV is shut off. Now I have read that the screen can transmit through air the interferrence. I will try the coax unhook today to see isoloate more. That just makes so much sense. Thanks again and I will try this today. "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Tue, 8 May 2012 20:05:18 -0400, " Tuuk" wrote: Anyone have any cheap comments regarding any power bar or surge protector that have the best RFI EMI noice filtering? A power bar isn't going to help much: http://www.powerbarstore.com As others have suggested, find the source of the noise, and then think about solutions. In my house, it's the multitude of wall warts and switching power supplies that generates the bulk of the noise. These switchers turn off when not charging or powering anything. So, no noise when they're plugged in, but not being used. Consider using clamp-on split ferrite filters if you suspect that the noise is being conducted down the power line. Light reading: http://audiosystemsgroup.com/SAC0305Ferrites.pdf Although the article is on audio noise suppression, it applies equally well to RF noise suppression. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Power bar noise filter???
" Tuuk" wrote in message ... Sorry for the delay, work kicked me for a while. I finally got back to checking and the noise is louder and when unhooking the tuner (which is attached to the dipole) the noice immediately goes away. Yesterday was about S9 or S10 of constant noice coming over all the bands on the HF. Is there any good Intermod filter for older style solid state rigs? There must be a cell phone tower or plazma tvs all over my neighborhood. Only way if that is the case to eliminate this is a intermodulation filter of some type on my end. Any good comments I am appreciative, cheap comments welcome as well. Some things: CHARACTERIZATION: See if the noise is truly on all the bands. Check every band for which you have a suitable antenna. Tell us what bands are bad and how bad. Is the problem the same at 2:00 AM as at 8:00 PM? Do you have access to a spectrum analyzer? LOCALIZATION: Get yourself a lot of coaxial cable, perhaps 100 feet and relocate a portable antenna to places around outside your shack while another ham calls out the S-meter reading every time you stop someplace and ask for it. You don't have to have a particularly good match so I'd suggest you DON'T need ground radials -- just a hamstick on the end of the cable. Don't hold onto it while your buddy takes the reading; hold it upright with a plastic or wooden stick a few feet long. Consider buying or borrowing a portable radio that covers the frequencies affected. ISOLATION: If you can localize the source, begin powering down. You may be able to switch off breakers, pending other persons in the house having their TV go off, or the kitchen go dark at dinnertime, etc. Run your rig off a battery so you can power down your entire shack. The source could be in a neighbor's house. WILD GUESS: Does the tuner have any active circuitry in it? It would be a real b*tch if the noise were being generated inside the tuner. When you mentioned "unhooking the tuner," you didn't say which side you were unhooking. SNEAK FACTOR (1): A battery-backed-up device, like a smoke detector, CO detector or burglar alarm could be the problem, but I doubt it. SNEAK FACTOR (2): If you have more than one problem, you may not know about Number 2 until after you fix Number 1. Good luck. I worked interference problems for the Navy and sometimes you need luck to back up your skill. "Sal" (KD6VKW) |
Power bar noise filter???
On 6/5/2012 10:37 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 09:00:11 -0400, " wrote: I finally got back to checking and the noise is louder and when unhooking the tuner (which is attached to the dipole) the noice immediately goes away. Does "unhooking the tuner" mean that you've unplugged the antenna lead from the plasma TV, or that you turned off the plasma TV? If the RFI is really coming from the antenna connection of the TV, a simple 54MHz high pass filter should be sufficient to reduce the RF emissions at HF frequencies to tolerable levels. However, I think turning off the TV would be better. Yesterday was about S9 or S10 of constant noice coming over all the bands on the HF. I was playing with a Heathkit GC-1000 WWV clock a few nights ago. Reception was horrible and there seemed to be a rather high noise level. I turned off everything I could think might be the culprit and the noise was still there. I gave up for the evening. When I turned off the room lights, the noise went away. One LED lamp turned out to be the culprit: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=203088292 I have 3 of these running, but only one of them generates RFI. So far the best light (warm white), best efficiency and relatively low noise seems to be from Philips LED bulbs. The ones that have the orange top are the best. Nothing else comes close. In Minnesota I think there is a deal going on with Home Depot and the power company because the 60W Philips bulbs that are normally $40 online everywhere have been $15 at Home Depot (here) for months. They are much better than any other LED Edison style bulb I have purchased, and I've bought quite a few trying to figure out what's good. The best price/performance is at the 60W level where the $15 bulb produces 810 lumens for 12W with color rendering at something like 80. The better version of the bulb does 1100 lumens (or so, can't remember the number exactly) for only 10W and has about a 99 color rendering rating. And is $50, only available online. I'd love having that one, but the math doesn't work out even if I have it for 30 years. I'll wait for the price to go down. tom K0TAR tom K0TAR tom K0TAR |
Power bar noise filter???
On 6/5/2012 9:48 PM, tom wrote:
snip tom K0TAR tom K0TAR tom K0TAR I wonder how I managed to do that. tom K0TAR |
Power bar noise filter???
On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 08:37:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: You can't "eliminate" EMI/RFI on your operating frequency with any type of filter. You have to eliminate it at the source. I lied. If the noise source is coherent, you can get rid of the trash with a noise canceller: http://www.timewave.com/support/ANC-4/anc4.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzgmH6Zsohg http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1026 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPE5vp_3b4A -- # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060 # 831-336-2558 # http://802.11junk.com # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS |
Power bar noise filter???
On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 21:48:33 -0500, tom wrote:
In Minnesota I think there is a deal going on with Home Depot and the power company because the 60W Philips bulbs that are normally $40 online everywhere have been $15 at Home Depot (here) for months. They're about $40 at Home Despot. I was there yesterday to check. I would probably have bought them except that the cheapo 8 watt Ecosmart LED lights were on sale for $10/ea. I don't know if you caught my comment, but I have 3 of them (now 4) but only one generates RFI. I was going to exchange it for another, but forgot to bring it to the store. Maybe next time. The best price/performance is at the 60W level where the $15 bulb produces 810 lumens for 12W with color rendering at something like 80. The better version of the bulb does 1100 lumens (or so, can't remember the number exactly) for only 10W and has about a 99 color rendering rating. And is $50, only available online. I'd love having that one, but the math doesn't work out even if I have it for 30 years. I'll wait for the price to go down. By comparison, the 8 watt EcoSmart 40w bulb produces and insipid 430 lumens and a 3000K color temperature. Like all the blue+yellow=white bulbs, they tend to favor the yellow. My eyes can be easily fooled, but my camera and spectroscope shows the obvious: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/EcoSmart%209%20Watt%20LED.jpg Argh... I can't find the spectra photo. These look like fun: http://www.scientificsonline.com/diffraction-grating-glasses.html tom K0TAR tom K0TAR tom K0TAR Pleas turn your echo suppressor back on. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Power bar noise filter???
On 6/6/2012 10:07 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
By comparison, the 8 watt EcoSmart 40w bulb produces and insipid 430 lumens and a 3000K color temperature. Like all the blue+yellow=white bulbs, they tend to favor the yellow. My eyes can be easily fooled, Yes, they are horrid, but I'd say they favor blue. Regardless, they can inhale vacuum. but my camera and spectroscope shows the obvious: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/EcoSmart%209%20Watt%20LED.jpg Argh... I can't find the spectra photo. These look like fun: http://www.scientificsonline.com/diffraction-grating-glasses.html I need that. Ordered 12, they're cheap. I'll give the extras to friends. tom K0TAR |
Power bar noise filter???
Thanks guys, lots of good tips.
73s "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 08:37:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote: You can't "eliminate" EMI/RFI on your operating frequency with any type of filter. You have to eliminate it at the source. I lied. If the noise source is coherent, you can get rid of the trash with a noise canceller: http://www.timewave.com/support/ANC-4/anc4.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzgmH6Zsohg http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1026 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPE5vp_3b4A -- # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060 # 831-336-2558 # http://802.11junk.com # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS |
Power bar noise filter???
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 20:28:21 -0500, tom wrote:
On 6/6/2012 10:07 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: By comparison, the 8 watt EcoSmart 40w bulb produces and insipid 430 lumens and a 3000K color temperature. Like all the blue+yellow=white bulbs, they tend to favor the yellow. My eyes can be easily fooled, Yes, they are horrid, but I'd say they favor blue. Regardless, they can inhale vacuum. Your eyes are suppose to more sensitive in the yellow area than blue. Getting the ratio between the blue LED and the yellow phosphor right is a major headache. Among my 4ea Ecosmart bulbs, I can't really see much variation. However, my camera certainly sees differences. One is rather blueish, while the others are varying shades of yellowish. I'll try to take a phone of all 4 of them at the same time. That's a problem right now because they're installed all over the house. Also, another advantage of LED light bulbs is that they can be dropped without breaking. Argh... I can't find the spectra photo. These look like fun: http://www.scientificsonline.com/diffraction-grating-glasses.html I need that. Ordered 12, they're cheap. I'll give the extras to friends. It's made for "raves" but works equally well for a fast spectrographic analysis. There are other diffraction grating type spectrometers available, but it's difficult to beat the price. -- # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060 # 831-336-2558 # http://802.11junk.com # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS |
Power bar noise filter???
On 6/8/2012 4:00 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Also, another advantage of LED light bulbs is that they can be dropped without breaking. Sort of. I believed as you until last evening. I finished mounting new solar panel 1 of 2 the previous day and all adhesives and sealers were very well set. Took my Vanagon camper out for a test drive and while on a freeway entrance ramp (decreasing radius of course) I heard a loud clank. Ignored it as per "driving in traffic rules" - Drive First, Worry About Noises Later. After I got home I noticed that one of my clamp lamps had fallen off it's preferred perch. And the Edison screw base on the Philips LED bulb wasn't quite on anymore. Looking close I noticed that the metal base was a sort of crimp onto the underlying plastic. Very tiny and sharp crimps on the upper edge of the screw base. I pushed it back on. So far so good. tom K0TAR |
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