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#21
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Ringo Ranger Problems
On 9/10/2012 9:01 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message ... If they rated a ringo using dbd, it would be zero.. Which doesn't look too good in the ad's.. :| So they use dbi to make for manlier gain figures.. I think CC just pulled numbers out of the air. Especially in the eairly days. Just looking at an old ad from 1974. They rate the 2 meter Ringo at 3.75 db gain. No refferance as to what. Also the 11 element was rated at 13.2 db of gain. Which was quite a bit shorter than the CC 214WB. The 214WB, which was better when you took off the marketing based "trigonal" reflector, still only made 11.91 dBd on a 14' 11" boom when optimized (based on your preferences). BTW the maximum reasonably obtainable gain on a yagi with a boom greater than 1 wavelngth is predictable with the following equation - G = 10 log (5.4075 B + 4.25) for B GT 1 Where G is gain in dBd and B is boomlength in wavelengths. I worked this out in the early 90's from a database of over 100 of the best practical, buildable VHF/UHF yagi designs. Thanks especially to K1FO for all of his design work. His 432 yagis had the greatest effect on the numbers. W1JR thinks it's accurate, so who am I to argue? I designed an extended version of the 214 that lets you re-use the useless extra reflectors as directors. This had a 17' 7" boom and would make 12.43 dBd at 144.2 with a decent feedpoint impedance of 21 ohms and F/B of 24 dB. This was used successfully at a friend's place for a 2 by 2 EME array. The antenna was tested at Central States and met the computer predicted gain exactly. If you want crazy I have a 432 EME antenna that does 18.4 dBd (according to the model) which tested at 18.1 on the range. They said the range was too short to test the antenna. It was still the highest gain for a homebrew 432 ever tested at Central States. Anyone that wants any 6m to 70cm designs can drop me an email. I've got lots. tom K0TAR |
#22
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Ringo Ranger Problems
"tom" wrote in message . net... I worked this out in the early 90's from a database of over 100 of the best practical, buildable VHF/UHF yagi designs. Thanks especially to K1FO for all of his design work. His 432 yagis had the greatest effect on the numbers. W1JR thinks it's accurate, so who am I to argue? I like the K1FO designs. I had a 432 antenna by Rutland Arays that seemed to be a copy of the K1FO design. Several years ago I put up some new antennas and wanted to go withthe Rutland, but he had passed away and went with the M-Square antennas for 2 meters and 432 mhz. From what I read, the Trigonal reflector was something that looked good for sells, but did little or nothing for that antenna. |
#23
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Ringo Ranger Problems
On 9/10/2012 7:40 PM, Channel Jumper wrote:
Being Long or Short is not the problem - if it was simple vertical with a ground plane with no loading coil - like a whip on a automobile - yes - you would be right. No problem even with loading coils. Or when using the various matching systems. They all act fairly predictably. But when dealing with a Ringo - which uses a ring to adjust the capacitive / inductive and also uses a tuning stub match - each part of the antenna works against each other.. Even now, the antenna on the VSWR Bridge shows a 2:1 match! Sure, it needs more inductance. But I figure the Ring is probably 9 inches too shot - if the ring is 7.5 inches in diameter and needs to be 10 and the stub is too short - if it needs to be 18 inches long and is only 6.... For a 10m ringo 18 inches would be about right with it tapped about halfway. I think one I made used about a 20 inch dia turn. But I didn't need all of it. The Antenna Analyzer would tell me the Resistive / Reactive components and all I would have to do is match them and it would work on any one frequency. Sure.. But I can do it by sense of smell.. Plenty of practice.. :/ This is the problem with the Ringo - why it is not broad banded. The main use where I live was by people who were installers of LMRS equipment that sold them along with a radio to fire companies and ambulances.... It should have about the same bandwidth as most any other half wave. I've never noticed them to really show any less bandwidth than other designs. But then again, I'm not sure what you mean by not broad banded. That could vary depending on expectations. |
#24
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Ringo Ranger Problems
On 9/10/2012 10:33 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
From what I read, the Trigonal reflector was something that looked good for sells, but did little or nothing for that antenna. Yep, most have come to the conclusion they were kind of a waste of metal.. I've got an old 2m "boomer" that has that reflector.. |
#25
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Ringo Ranger Problems
In article ,
Channel Jumper wrote: But I figure the Ring is probably 9 inches too shot - if the ring is 7.5 inches in diameter and needs to be 10 and the stub is too short - if it needs to be 18 inches long and is only 6.... Channel Jumper- You can get parts measurements for the various Ringo antennas at the CushCraft website (Now part of MFJ!). For the Ten Meter version, http://www.cushcraftamateur.com/Product.php?productid=AR-10. A user manual is available by clicking on "AR-10 Downloads". I do not see a Stub length given for the AR-10, but the AR-6 manual has a chart. The AR-10 manual's specification says that gain is 3 dB "Ref. Quarterwave"! Fred K4DII |
#26
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Ringo Ranger Problems
On 9/12/2012 7:12 PM, Fred McKenzie wrote:
In article , Channel Jumper wrote: But I figure the Ring is probably 9 inches too shot - if the ring is 7.5 inches in diameter and needs to be 10 and the stub is too short - if it needs to be 18 inches long and is only 6.... Channel Jumper- You can get parts measurements for the various Ringo antennas at the CushCraft website (Now part of MFJ!). For the Ten Meter version, http://www.cushcraftamateur.com/Product.php?productid=AR-10. A user manual is available by clicking on "AR-10 Downloads". I do not see a Stub length given for the AR-10, but the AR-6 manual has a chart. It's in the manual.. Was about 16.5 inches long with the RG-8 they use. They don't give the dia for the single turn coil, but I've built a few of those, and used 18-20 inches or so dia. Not real critical being it will be tapped appx mid way for a coil that diameter. 7.5 inches dia is too small for 10m. Even 10 inches would likely be too small unless maybe you tapped it near the end, using almost the whole coil. I don't think I'd make it any less that 15-16 inches dia. |
#27
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Ringo Ranger Problems
In article , NM5K wrote:
On 9/12/2012 7:12 PM, Fred McKenzie wrote: In article , Channel Jumper wrote: But I figure the Ring is probably 9 inches too shot - if the ring is 7.5 inches in diameter and needs to be 10 and the stub is too short - if it needs to be 18 inches long and is only 6.... Channel Jumper- You can get parts measurements for the various Ringo antennas at the CushCraft website (Now part of MFJ!). For the Ten Meter version, http://www.cushcraftamateur.com/Product.php?productid=AR-10. A user manual is available by clicking on "AR-10 Downloads". I do not see a Stub length given for the AR-10, but the AR-6 manual has a chart. It's in the manual.. Was about 16.5 inches long with the RG-8 they use. They don't give the dia for the single turn coil, but I've built a few of those, and used 18-20 inches or so dia. Not real critical being it will be tapped appx mid way for a coil that diameter. 7.5 inches dia is too small for 10m. Even 10 inches would likely be too small unless maybe you tapped it near the end, using almost the whole coil. I don't think I'd make it any less that 15-16 inches dia. I overlooked the stub in the manual I downloaded. Now I see it in the Ring Assembly Parts, Key FF. It is 16 5/8". Ring diameter is listed as 13" in a chart at the web link above. I do not see size listed in the manual, where the ring is shown as two similar pieces bolted together. Fred K4DII |
#28
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Ringo Ranger Problems
On 9/13/2012 12:01 AM, Fred McKenzie wrote:
It's in the manual.. Was about 16.5 inches long with the RG-8 they use. They don't give the dia for the single turn coil, but I've built a few of those, and used 18-20 inches or so dia. Not real critical being it will be tapped appx mid way for a coil that diameter. 7.5 inches dia is too small for 10m. Even 10 inches would likely be too small unless maybe you tapped it near the end, using almost the whole coil. I don't think I'd make it any less that 15-16 inches dia. I overlooked the stub in the manual I downloaded. Now I see it in the Ring Assembly Parts, Key FF. It is 16 5/8". Ring diameter is listed as 13" in a chart at the web link above. I do not see size listed in the manual, where the ring is shown as two similar pieces bolted together. Fred K4DII Yep, I see it now.. I was thinking it was slightly larger than that, but maybe the original AR-10 I had was only 13 inches across. They show the 6m version using the same part.. From the diagram, it looks like about 2/3 of the turn is used on 10m. Also, if I remember right, the 6m version used no coax cap for tuning. I was looking at the 6m ringo PDF the other day. |
#29
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Ringo Ranger Problems
"Channel Jumper" ha scritto nel messaggio ... Any idea's? Ringo antenna - like *all* half wave antennas - don't want the mounting mast lenght of 1/4 wl and odd multiples. So be careful. Many people said ringo antenna is bad, no resonance, etc... because of this. Chris -.-. --.- |
#30
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Ok, so what I did was take the antenna apart, add another couple of feet and made it 16' long.
I shorted out the stub match at 19 inches long. SWR was about 5:1 So I tried lengthening it to 18' - which did not improve the SWR much. So I put it back at 16' and I cut the stub match off at the solder point and I stuck it up 30' in the air and the SWR was 1.1 : 1 at channel 23 and was 1.25 : 1 on channel 1 and was 1 : 1 on channel 19.... Since the person I put it up for only has a 23 channel radio, and since he only uses channel 19 - that was all he cared about... Technicially it says it is good for about 1.5 : 1 on any frequency - hence getting it closer then that was a real accomplishment, and although I know a little about antenna's - this one had me stumpped..... Thanks everyone..... Last edited by Channel Jumper : September 16th 12 at 02:53 AM |
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