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#21
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Homebrew 222 Mhz Beam Antenna Project
On 2/24/2013 9:13 PM, tom wrote:
I've done some searching for corrections for through the boom uninsulated and found that the opinion is that it's not a good idea. And it makes sense if you read why - the current is really high at the center of the element and any variation in contact resistance to the boom or material will change the result. What you would like is the result to be based on only the insulated element conductance and the shielding of the boom, which is easier to calculate and less variable. tom K0TAR Here's a reference that mentions reasons for not using uninsulated through the boom connectio9ns. And has some nice graphs on insulated through the boom. http://g7rau.demon.co.uk/sm5bsz/antennas/sa/others.htm tom K0TAR |
#22
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Homebrew 222 Mhz Beam Antenna Project
"tom" wrote in message . .. On 2/23/2013 11:41 PM, Sal wrote: snip What bands are you building for? Here's a link to some of Lionel's information at SM2CEW. If you need to correspond with him, contact me directly and I'll get you his email. http://www.sm2cew.com/gt.htm tom K0TAR BANDS: This is a 220 beam intended for roof mount on my daughter/son-in-law's house in Livermore CA to see if we can hit the Condor Connection, which is all on 220. I'm in San Diego, with a nearby Condor machine. My newly-licensed son-in-law thinks it would be a hoot if we could talk directly, home-to-home. (I don't want to encourage him to buy an HF rig for possible use on 10m, since fickle propagation has the potential to be a buzz kill for a new ham. Upgrade to General is an unknown. He's not ready for IRLP.) Condor has two possible repeaters, one on Mount Hamilton (24 mi, by San Jose) and one on Mount Vaca (50 mi.). Neither is a slam dunk from Livermore because of terrain blockage. I'm hoping 50W & 10 dB gain will work. I did some Longley Rice modeling here http://lrcov.crc.ca/main/ and I'm hopeful. I have alternate possibilities. The WIN System has 440-band repeaters on Mt Oso (25 mi.) and on Loma Prieta (40 mi.) but also with terrain issues. ( I already have a 26-element 440 beam; it models out to about 14 dBd gain.) Those distances would be no problem except for the blockage. I can do 80 miles with 5 watts off an omni if my RF's don't bump into nuthin' first. I expect the finished 220 beam to have about 10dBd gain and I have 50 watts available. Thanks for the link to Lionel's info. I'll check itout. "Sal" (KD6VKW) |
#23
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Homebrew 222 Mhz Beam Antenna Project
"tom" wrote in message . .. On 2/24/2013 9:13 PM, tom wrote: I've done some searching for corrections for through the boom uninsulated and found that the opinion is that it's not a good idea. And it makes sense if you read why - the current is really high at the center of the element and any variation in contact resistance to the boom or material will change the result. What you would like is the result to be based on only the insulated element conductance and the shielding of the boom, which is easier to calculate and less variable. tom K0TAR Here's a reference that mentions reasons for not using uninsulated through the boom connectio9ns. And has some nice graphs on insulated through the boom. http://g7rau.demon.co.uk/sm5bsz/antennas/sa/others.htm tom K0TAR OK, I'm convinced. What I need is some lightweight non-metallic material for the boom and I can build with the numbers I have for element lengths. I'll hit the stores in the morning. I'll try a T-match, too. "Sal" |
#24
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Homebrew 222 Mhz Beam Antenna Project
On 2/25/2013 12:38 AM, Sal wrote:
BANDS: This is a 220 beam intended for roof mount on my daughter/son-in-law's house in Livermore CA to see if we can hit the Condor Connection, which is all on 220. I'm in San Diego, with a nearby Condor machine. My newly-licensed son-in-law thinks it would be a hoot if we could talk directly, home-to-home. (I don't want to encourage him to buy an HF rig for possible use on 10m, since fickle propagation has the potential to be a buzz kill for a new ham. Upgrade to General is an unknown. He's not ready for IRLP.) Condor has two possible repeaters, one on Mount Hamilton (24 mi, by San Jose) and one on Mount Vaca (50 mi.). Neither is a slam dunk from Livermore because of terrain blockage. I'm hoping 50W & 10 dB gain will work. I did some Longley Rice modeling here http://lrcov.crc.ca/main/ and I'm hopeful. I have alternate possibilities. The WIN System has 440-band repeaters on Mt Oso (25 mi.) and on Loma Prieta (40 mi.) but also with terrain issues. ( I already have a 26-element 440 beam; it models out to about 14 dBd gain.) Those distances would be no problem except for the blockage. I can do 80 miles with 5 watts off an omni if my RF's don't bump into nuthin' first. I expect the finished 220 beam to have about 10dBd gain and I have 50 watts available. Thanks for the link to Lionel's info. I'll check itout. "Sal" (KD6VKW) Sounds like a plan. Good luck. If there are any 6m machines around the terrain becomes a lot less of a problem. If, of course, you have a 6m FM rig. Around here, Minneapolis metro, we have a few machines that have multiple inputs and outputs. (Not really, they are individual cross-linked rptrs, but that's just details). Maybe your area has some. tom K0TAR |
#25
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Homebrew 222 Mhz Beam Antenna Project
Sounds like a plan. Good luck. If there are any 6m machines around the terrain becomes a lot less of a problem. If, of course, you have a 6m FM rig. Around here, Minneapolis metro, we have a few machines that have multiple inputs and outputs. (Not really, they are individual cross-linked rptrs, but that's just details). Maybe your area has some. tom K0TAR Thanks. I've heard 6m is very good that way. I have 6m FM but not my son-in-law ... yet. Besides, I haven't found any linking from Livermore to me in Southern CA. See, Livermore has plenty of repeaters, both local and in three nearby cities, Tracy, Pleasanton and Danville. Once you get beyond that region, mountains become an issue and the nearest known linked repeaters are not line-of-sight. I'm hoping some antenna gain will let me use edge diffraction to make one of the machines. I'm hoping the first edge out of Livermore will do it. Yes, I have consulted terrain profiles. Related: At Lowes today, I bought an 8-foot length of stiff, ribbed, plastic channel called "lattice moulding" and it will be the boom for my 1.25m masterwork. It's very rigid in the vertical orientation, which is what I want. If I have time, I'll rebuild the driven element with a T-match. "Sal" |
#26
February 26th 13, 04:15 AM
posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna,[email protected]
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Homebrew 222 Mhz Beam Antenna Project
On 2/25/2013 9:50 PM, Sal wrote:
Thanks. I've heard 6m is very good that way. I have 6m FM but not my son-in-law ... yet. Besides, I haven't found any linking from Livermore to me in Southern CA. See, Livermore has plenty of repeaters, both local and in three nearby cities, Tracy, Pleasanton and Danville. Once you get beyond that region, mountains become an issue and the nearest known linked repeaters are not line-of-sight. I'm hoping some antenna gain will let me use edge diffraction to make one of the machines. I'm hoping the first edge out of Livermore will do it. Yes, I have consulted terrain profiles. Related: At Lowes today, I bought an 8-foot length of stiff, ribbed, plastic channel called "lattice moulding" and it will be the boom for my 1.25m masterwork. It's very rigid in the vertical orientation, which is what I want. If I have time, I'll rebuild the driven element with a T-match. "Sal" So what you need is a design that will fit on an 8 foot boom. About 7 feet 11 and a half inches. I will see what might work well. How much was the channel? tom K0TAR |
#27
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Homebrew 222 Mhz Beam Antenna Project
"tom" wrote in message ... On 2/25/2013 9:50 PM, Sal wrote: Thanks. I've heard 6m is very good that way. I have 6m FM but not my son-in-law ... yet. Besides, I haven't found any linking from Livermore to me in Southern CA. See, Livermore has plenty of repeaters, both local and in three nearby cities, Tracy, Pleasanton and Danville. Once you get beyond that region, mountains become an issue and the nearest known linked repeaters are not line-of-sight. I'm hoping some antenna gain will let me use edge diffraction to make one of the machines. I'm hoping the first edge out of Livermore will do it. Yes, I have consulted terrain profiles. Related: At Lowes today, I bought an 8-foot length of stiff, ribbed, plastic channel called "lattice moulding" and it will be the boom for my 1.25m masterwork. It's very rigid in the vertical orientation, which is what I want. If I have time, I'll rebuild the driven element with a T-match. "Sal" So what you need is a design that will fit on an 8 foot boom. About 7 feet 11 and a half inches. I will see what might work well. How much was the channel? tom K0TAR "I will see what might work well." So, do you think the design from the antenna book is less than ideal? The channel is priced at $15.94. I will put some masking tape on my piece of channel, mark off element positions from various designs, attach the elements temporarily (tape) and evaluate the resulting antenna. I will set up a makeshift antenna range, with (1) my tracking generator feeding a 220 whip radiating from my lawn while (2) a helper in the driveway aims the antenna and while (3) it send its receive signal into the shack where I, aka His Royal Hamminess, notes the received signal at various azimuths. (We don't need any stinkin' anechoic chambers.) Professionally, I've made quantitative measurements of field strength ... Singer NM-25, anyone? ... but I have nothing approaching modern precision gear as that which rents for hundreds of dollars a week. RELATED: If you know, why do some yagis designs place the first director quite a bit closer to the DE than the rest of the directors' spacing? In other yagi designs, the spacing of the directors is relatively consistent, where DE-to-first-director is about equal to the spacing of the remaining directors. I haven't seen that difference explained ... yet. Thanks. "Sal" |
#28
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Homebrew 222 Mhz Beam Antenna Project
In article ,
Sal salmonella@food poisoning.org wrote: RELATED: If you know, why do some yagis designs place the first director quite a bit closer to the DE than the rest of the directors' spacing? In other yagi designs, the spacing of the directors is relatively consistent, where DE-to-first-director is about equal to the spacing of the remaining directors. I haven't seen that difference explained ... yet. Thanks. You might be looking at what has become known as an "optimized wide-band" Yagi. According to one article (http://www.naic.edu/~angel/kp4ao/ham/owa.html) placing the first-director parasitic element very close to the driven element, causes the antenna to be behave as if the driven element's diameter is much larger than it is (approximating the distance between the DE and the first director). This has two useful effects: it increases the radiation resistance (making the Yagi easier to match to the feedline) and increases the bandwidth. You give up a small amount of forward gain, but this is said to be modest and to be a worthwhile price to pay for the ease of feeding (even a direct 50-ohm feed can be used in some cases) and the increased bandwidth. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
#29
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Homebrew 222 Mhz Beam Antenna Project
"Dave Platt" wrote in message news In article , Sal salmonella@food poisoning.org wrote: RELATED: If you know, why do some yagis designs place the first director quite a bit closer to the DE than the rest of the directors' spacing? In other yagi designs, the spacing of the directors is relatively consistent, where DE-to-first-director is about equal to the spacing of the remaining directors. I haven't seen that difference explained ... yet. Thanks. You might be looking at what has become known as an "optimized wide-band" Yagi. According to one article (http://www.naic.edu/~angel/kp4ao/ham/owa.html) placing the first-director parasitic element very close to the driven element, causes the antenna to be behave as if the driven element's diameter is much larger than it is (approximating the distance between the DE and the first director). This has two useful effects: it increases the radiation resistance (making the Yagi easier to match to the feedline) and increases the bandwidth. You give up a small amount of forward gain, but this is said to be modest and to be a worthwhile price to pay for the ease of feeding (even a direct 50-ohm feed can be used in some cases) and the increased bandwidth. Wow! Thanks for such a clear explanantion. As I was constructing my DE, with its gamma match, I didn't have much trouble getting a decent match; What you say makes me sure that adding parasitic elements will alter that match ... but the close-in first-director will mitigate the problem. (I do plan to try the T-match; the gamma match seems to be like ol' Rodney Dangerfield: No Respect.) I have no shame in saying that this is my first beam, unless you count the cookbook 20m 2-element quad for last year's Field Day. On the flip side, I take pride in tackling everything new, especially with the support of those who've scouted the road ahead for me. Thanks again. "Sal" |
#30
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Homebrew 222 Mhz Beam Antenna Project
On 2/26/2013 3:57 PM, Dave Platt wrote:
In article , Sal salmonella@food poisoning.org wrote: RELATED: If you know, why do some yagis designs place the first director quite a bit closer to the DE than the rest of the directors' spacing? In other yagi designs, the spacing of the directors is relatively consistent, where DE-to-first-director is about equal to the spacing of the remaining directors. I haven't seen that difference explained ... yet. Thanks. You might be looking at what has become known as an "optimized wide-band" Yagi. According to one article (http://www.naic.edu/~angel/kp4ao/ham/owa.html) placing the first-director parasitic element very close to the driven element, causes the antenna to be behave as if the driven element's diameter is much larger than it is (approximating the distance between the DE and the first director). This has two useful effects: it increases the radiation resistance (making the Yagi easier to match to the feedline) and increases the bandwidth. You give up a small amount of forward gain, but this is said to be modest and to be a worthwhile price to pay for the ease of feeding (even a direct 50-ohm feed can be used in some cases) and the increased bandwidth. Some of us old time EME/weak_signal builders call the first 4 elements the K1FO launcher. I did a lot of optimization over the last 25 years, but I didn't change the first 4 elements of his design much. He got it right and it worked especially well with a T match. tom K0TAR |
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