"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Groom Lake wrote:

In Message-ID:Kl6Gc.1758$%w5.429@okepread05 posted on Mon, 5 Jul 2004
01:15:08 -0500, Rob Mills wrote:


I wasn't much into
gab but enjoyed tinkering with the equipment more than gabbing on them
so
soon sold out except for a CB I used in the truck. I drove an 18 for a
living and retired in 84 and haven't keyed anything since. RM~


Back in '66 I put one of those (pre-bucket brigade) delay boxes* with a
spring and two transducers in line with my audio and some of the locals
thought the echo was due to the enormous power level, similar to 15
meter multipath, rather than just a precursor to today's echo-mike.
*note - those delay boxes were more commonly used in conjunction with
automotive 8-track players, and would make that distinctive boing effect
whenever you hit a pothole or crossed the tracks too fast. ;-)

Well, since the topic is shifting, can anyone tell me what the echo is
supposed to do? in my travels, with my CB on, I can "hear" people with
echo mic's and I'll be darned if I can hear them well at all. Now echo
AND way overmodulated, now there's the ticket to complete
unintelligibility! (is that a word?)

- Mike -


They "think" it makes them sound better or more cool, not sure which.
Problem is, most are turned up TOO far. Some isn't so objectionable and
doesn't sound bad, even though they're not supposed to be permitted per part
95. I've heard so many that sounded like they were talking either
underwater or with a mouth full of something. REALLY SUCKED.

Being both a ham and Cber, I can't see what their sense of existence is.
Then too, you got everyone and his brother cranking up the RF out, and if
they go channel hopping, that bleeds like hell. I had to take a double take
one time when I and a friend of mine were in another CB shop, and actually
heard two CBers swear off the extra garbage and go back to stock TO HEAR!
WOW. I asked my friend if I heard right, and he agreed. I don't do any mods
to CBs or other radios unless permitted by law or needed to get the thing
working, when a unit comes to my shop. Many don't like my approach, but so
be it.

Lou

Audio enhancement

All modern ham rigs incorporate compression in the audio chain; this effective
pushes up the room sound a bit without the echo/reverb being overpowering.

It is puzzling why hams have not commonly adapted well-known psychoacoustic
observables to increase intelligibility. These include: a 50 ms delay on
transmit; and binaural (delay and phase invert) synthesis on received. The
latter has had some exposure in recent years.

I recall using both the of these circa 1985 at Field Day with pro audio
outboard boxes. The problem--on transmit--is isolating them from the RF so they
don't overload.

CB has always had an over the top approach to audio--which rather defeats the
purpose of said synthesis.

Anyway, old stuff, well-known to music producers and some audio engineers.

73,
Chip N1IR

RC,

Instead of playing the 'game' of posting a reply to anything I post.

Why don't you be helpful to the original poster and attempt
to answer his question.

First - What type (name) antenna is he talking about ?

Second - What is your 'expert' opinion about this antenna ?

Third - What are the technical aspects of this antenna ?

- - - - - The Original Question - - - - -

Hi,

Does anyone remember a weird compact antenna that was featured
in a 60's (or early 70's) edition of "73" magazine. Had 2 etched
PCBs (like spaced plates) mounted inside a plastic bucket, and
fed with coax?

Does anyone know more details of this?

JEFF
ZL3TNV

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It's much nicer and rewarding to be honestly helpful
.. . . then simply hateful.

A 'noted' Yahoo ~ RHF
..
..
= = = Richard Clark wrote in message
= = = . ..
On 5 Jul 2004 01:26:17 -0700, (RHF) wrote:

The EH antenna has exceptional promise. It is about 10' in
diameter, requires no extensive underground radials, uses
approximately 75% less energy and is more efficient.

Hi OM,

More efficient that what, a resistor? 75% less energy than what, a
resistor?

The eh antenna is one of several of a class that take more effort for
less return than simply putting up as much wire as you have room for -
even if it is the same size as any of these "amazing!" antennas.

The absurd claims that attend the cfa/eh/fractal crowing societies is
matched by their inability to prove them except through their own
special math (never mind the S-Meter).

However, there are those who argue SWLers need poor antennas and I
suppose these fit the bill nicely. The technical equivalent of cell
phones VS string-and-dixie cups tho'.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC
..

On 5 Jul 2004 18:12:09 -0700, (RHF) wrote:

RC,

Instead of playing the 'game' of posting a reply to anything I post.

Your ego is showing.

Why don't you be helpful to the original poster and attempt
to answer his question.

Like you? ;-)

Instead of playing twenty questions:
First - What type (name) antenna is he talking about ?
Second - What is your 'expert' opinion about this antenna ?
Third - What are the technical aspects of this antenna ?
Let's all note that it was your introduction of 6 off-topic links to
an antenna who I have already responded to against these same three
preceding questions.

Hi OM,

The eh and their ilk are on every sucker list on the web. It is a
simple matter to NOT cross post your responses if they don't shine
under examination. It is also a simply matter to either stay
on-topic, or to at least follow your own side-thread.

Respond to the technical issue, or learn to unlink your posts.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

RHF wrote:
RC,

Instead of playing the 'game' of posting a reply to anything I post.

Why don't you be helpful to the original poster and attempt
to answer his question.

First - What type (name) antenna is he talking about ?

A Dummy Load


Second - What is your 'expert' opinion about this antenna ?

Makes a pretty good Dummy load


Third - What are the technical aspects of this antenna ?

Acts like a Dummy load.



- - - - - The Original Question - - - - -

Hi,

Does anyone remember a weird compact antenna that was featured
in a 60's (or early 70's) edition of "73" magazine. Had 2 etched
PCBs (like spaced plates) mounted inside a plastic bucket, and
fed with coax?

Does anyone know more details of this?

JEFF
ZL3TNV

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It's much nicer and rewarding to be honestly helpful
. . . then simply hateful.

Oh Gee, Richard isn't being hateful, just responding to your post
responding to the original posters msg.

The world of engineering is like this - gotta have a tough skin, yaknow?
rule 1 is extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

If your antenna works, no amount of his scorn will stop it.

rest snipped

- mike KB3EIA -

RC,

The prior post to mine in this thread was a reference to the EH Antenna.

Yes I have an 'ego' and apparently your have an "EGO" too.

Hey, I try to be helpful and keep things positive.

I did not play Twenty Questions : I posted three.

I then provided Eight Links to more EH Antenna Information.
[ Not Six Links. ]

I also posted Eight Links related to the prior poster's
Screen Name: "JohnJacobJingleHimerSchmidt" {JJJHS}
[ It's called relating to people / a side-bar. ]

You have the tendency to state you opinions as facts; and
thereby discount all other opinions.

For some the EH Antenna may be a matter of 'faith' and to the
extent that it "Works" in some form or fashion: Hey It WORKS !
Your technical details valid or not, have very little relevance
to them and 'their' EH Antenna.

So Say I - My Opinions Stated as Facts ~ RHF
..
..
= = = Richard Clark wrote in message
= = = . ..
On 5 Jul 2004 18:12:09 -0700, (RHF) wrote:

RC,

Instead of playing the 'game' of posting a reply to anything I post.

Your ego is showing.

Why don't you be helpful to the original poster and attempt
to answer his question.

Like you? ;-)

Instead of playing twenty questions:
First - What type (name) antenna is he talking about ?
Second - What is your 'expert' opinion about this antenna ?
Third - What are the technical aspects of this antenna ?
Let's all note that it was your introduction of 6 off-topic links to
an antenna who I have already responded to against these same three
preceding questions.

Hi OM,

The eh and their ilk are on every sucker list on the web. It is a
simple matter to NOT cross post your responses if they don't shine
under examination. It is also a simply matter to either stay
on-topic, or to at least follow your own side-thread.

Respond to the technical issue, or learn to unlink your posts.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On 6 Jul 2004 11:02:19 -0700, (RHF) wrote:

Yes I have an 'ego' and apparently your have an "EGO" too.

Certainly, mine is earned.

Hey, I try to be helpful and keep things positive.

Posting as a substitute for Prozac, or is it Lithium?

I did not play Twenty Questions : I posted three.

Hmm, a matter of degree not substance. As for substance I note you
have no interest in engaging the outcome of your questions' answers
nor in pursuing the technical claims of your submitted eh antennas.
So I will respond to your style and expose your weakness in that
regard too. ;-)

For some the EH Antenna may be a matter of 'faith' and to the
extent that it "Works" in some form or fashion: Hey It WORKS !
Your technical details valid or not, have very little relevance
to them and 'their' EH Antenna.

Rabbit ears for AM reception WORK for the faithful too. Such a
recommendation! It's like short-changing the blind to teach them self
sufficiency.

So Say I - My Opinions Stated as Facts ~ RHF

Actually "so write you." No one can hear you scream on the internet.

For others following the poor quality of discussion surrounding the eh
antenna; this design has been field tested, studied and analyzed quite
thoroughly on rec.radio.amateur.antenna. It is quite an education to
simply look at the field data offered by the proponents themselves
(who are just as incapable in reading engineering reports as any
Yahoo).

For the sheer bulk and complexity of the eh design, their own reports
shows it to be fully 0.1% to 1% efficient compared to a simple design.
Of course, few of you may be capable of erecting this simple design.
However, going to the trouble with the eh when you could as easily use
rabbit ears purchased at Radio Shack must bring with it what Yahoo
cites as the misty-eyed boon of faith (which accounts for easily 20
over S9 signals in an S1 field of noise where the faithless only hear
static).

Henceforth we can call these designs Faith-Gain Antennas. It means
that if you discard tuners, preselectors, tuned antennas, and simply
use a wire coat hanger; that if you squeeze your eyes hard enough and
fall to your knees with folded hands held slightly above brow level,
then you too can enjoy the melodious tongues from other lands
communicating to your inner heart - don't forget to turn on the radio.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:40:20 -0400, william ewald
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:11:47 GMT, Richard Clark
wrote:


Rabbit ears for AM reception WORK for the faithful too.
73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

AM reception? I've never tried that. Did you mean FM?

Hi Bill,

AM. You've never tried it when your car antenna works every time? I
bet you have rabbit ears embedded in your windshield.

O Ye of little Faith!

Yahoo's very limited experience will probably miss this simple
observation of an antenna that WORKS. He would also probably miss the
common sense suggestion that AM DXers use automobile radios for their
listening - on long antennas.

I keep praying for the "whole house wiring" antenna to work with my
TV.

Won't work because the BPL is resonating with the fractal topology?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

= = = Richard Clark wrote in message
= = = . ..
On 6 Jul 2004 11:02:19 -0700, (RHF) wrote:

Yes I have an 'ego' and apparently your have an "EGO" too.

Certainly, mine is earned.

RC - I am 'certain' that you "Believe" that.
..
..

Hey, I try to be helpful and keep things positive.

Posting as a substitute for Prozac, or is it Lithium?

RC - You again seem to be the 'expert' in his area of endeavor.
..
..

I did not play Twenty Questions : I posted three.

Hmm, a matter of degree not substance. As for substance I note you
have no interest in engaging the outcome of your questions' answers
nor in pursuing the technical claims of your submitted eh antennas.

RC - The topic became EH Antennas, and I posted "Links" for the
original poster to go to and explore that subject; if that was
his continued interest. I am sure that a YAHOO eGroup with over
600 Members and more than 4600 Messages posted; will provide more
information then I could.

"EH Antennas" eGroup on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eh-antenna/
..
..
So I will respond to your style and expose your weakness in that
regard too. ;-)

RC - What Ever Winds Your Clock.
..
..

For some the EH Antenna may be a matter of 'faith' and to the
extent that it "Works" in some form or fashion: Hey It WORKS !
Your technical details valid or not, have very little relevance
to them and 'their' EH Antenna.

Rabbit ears for AM reception WORK for the faithful too.

RC - When all you have is a single short WHIP Antenna built into your
'portable' AM/F/Shortwave Radio. A pair of "TV Rabbit Ears" properly
connected to the radio; may indeed function better as an Antenna.

Hey What Works, WORKS !
..
..
Such a recommendation! It's like short-changing the blind to
teach them self sufficiency.

RC - If the Motive and Goal is "To Teach" and not to 'steal';
and if the Lesson is Learned. Then dealing with the realities
of the world is part of 'being' Self Sufficient.
..
..

So Say I - My Opinions Stated as Facts ~ RHF

Actually "so write you."

RC - That is True.
..
..
No one can hear you scream on the internet.

RC - That is true, but they may see you SCREAM :-[]
..
..

For others following the poor quality of discussion surrounding the eh
antenna; this design has been field tested, studied and analyzed quite
thoroughly on rec.radio.amateur.antenna.

RC - They may wish to also seek an 'alternative' view point from
the EH Antennas eGroup on YAHOO; with it's 600+ Members and more
than 4600 Messages posted.

"EH Antennas" eGroup on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eh-antenna/
..
..
It is quite an education to
simply look at the field data offered by the proponents themselves
(who are just as incapable in reading engineering reports as any
Yahoo).

RC - Yes as you have 'noted' I am Yahoo.
..
..

For the sheer bulk and complexity of the eh design, their own reports
shows it to be fully 0.1% to 1% efficient compared to a simple design.
Of course, few of you may be capable of erecting this simple design.

RC - For those who wish to seek an 'alternative' view point from
from yours. I would suggest that they check-out the "EH Antennas"
eGroup on YAHOO; with it's 600+ Members and more than 4600 Messages
posted about the EH Antenna by actual users of the EH Antenna.

"EH Antennas" eGroup on YAHOO !
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eh-antenna/
..
..
However, going to the trouble with the eh when you could as easily use
rabbit ears purchased at Radio Shack must bring with it what Yahoo
cites as the misty-eyed boon of faith (which accounts for easily 20
over S9 signals in an S1 field of noise where the faithless only hear
static).

RC - When all you have is a single short WHIP Antenna built into your
'portable' AM/F/Shortwave Radio. A pair of "TV Rabbit Ears" properly
connected to the radio; may indeed function better as an Antenna.

Hey What Works, WORKS !
..
..

Henceforth we can call these designs Faith-Gain Antennas.

RC - Considering the amount of Religious Programming on the
Shortwave Bands. A "Faith-Gain" Antenna just may be the type
of Marketing Buzz Word that will sell an Aerial type Product
at a Heavenly Price.

Faith-Gain Antennas - How They Work... God Only Knows ? ? ?

..
..
It means
that if you discard tuners, preselectors, tuned antennas, and simply
use a wire coat hanger; that if you squeeze your eyes hard enough and
fall to your knees with folded hands held slightly above brow level,
then you too can enjoy the melodious tongues from other lands
communicating to your inner heart

RC - Ah the Things that Dreams are made of . . .
..
..
- don't forget to turn on the radio.

RC - Thank You I Won't.
..
..

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

~ RHF
..

MC,

"If your antenna works, no amount of his scorn will stop it."

If Your Antenna Works... Your Will Hear and Be Heard [.]

Hey, What Works... WORKS ! ~ RHF
..
..
= = = Mike Coslo wrote in message
= = = ...
RHF wrote:
RC,

Instead of playing the 'game' of posting a reply to anything I post.

Why don't you be helpful to the original poster and attempt
to answer his question.

First - What type (name) antenna is he talking about ?

A Dummy Load


Second - What is your 'expert' opinion about this antenna ?

Makes a pretty good Dummy load


Third - What are the technical aspects of this antenna ?

Acts like a Dummy load.



- - - - - The Original Question - - - - -

Hi,

Does anyone remember a weird compact antenna that was featured
in a 60's (or early 70's) edition of "73" magazine. Had 2 etched
PCBs (like spaced plates) mounted inside a plastic bucket, and
fed with coax?

Does anyone know more details of this?

JEFF
ZL3TNV

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It's much nicer and rewarding to be honestly helpful
. . . then simply hateful.

Oh Gee, Richard isn't being hateful, just responding to your post
responding to the original posters msg.

The world of engineering is like this - gotta have a tough skin, yaknow?
rule 1 is extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

If your antenna works, no amount of his scorn will stop it.

rest snipped

- mike KB3EIA -
..