Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI wrote:
On 01/11/14 15:26, gareth wrote:
Ignoring, for the moment, travelling wave antenna, and restricting
discussion to standing wave antennae ...

A wave is launched, and radiates SOME of the power, and suffers
both I2R losses and dielectric and permeability losses associated
with creating and collapsing the near field.

At first, there is no standing wave, until the wave reaches the point of
reflection
in the antenna and heads back the way it has come (because not all has been
radiated*****)
On the way back, it again suffers the losses described above, as well as
radiating a
bit more.

It then reaches the other end and suffers further reflections ad infinitum.

An interesting conclusion is, therefore, that the I2R losses are repeated,
each time with a smaller loss, as the wave decrements.

***** Without the remnants of non-radiated power, there could NOT be
a standing wave!

I don't think anybody would dispute what you say here, so what's to discuss?

It is nonsense, they can be no wave in the element due to it being a
conductor. He is confusing the I and V plots for waves.

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
It is nonsense, they can be no wave in the element due to it being a
conductor.

You seem to be unaware that a travelling wave around a wire is what
causes the wave to move along the wire, and not the electrons inside,
which only oscillate a very short distance about their mean.

He is confusing the I and V plots for waves.

There is no confusion on my part. Perhaps you could explain where you
think I am confused, for I had not mentioned the separated I and V
waveforms.

Perhaps you are confused yourself, perhaps, by the current maximum
at the centre of a dipole, for it is not a DC maximum but rises and falls
in magnitude?

gareth wrote:
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
It is nonsense, they can be no wave in the element due to it being a
conductor.

You seem to be unaware that a travelling wave around a wire is what
causes the wave to move along the wire, and not the electrons inside,
which only oscillate a very short distance about their mean.

You seem to be unaware that current is the total, net movement of all
the electrons in a wire, not just a single electron.

He is confusing the I and V plots for waves.

There is no confusion on my part. Perhaps you could explain where you
think I am confused, for I had not mentioned the separated I and V
waveforms.

Yeah, right.

Perhaps you are confused yourself, perhaps, by the current maximum
at the centre of a dipole, for it is not a DC maximum but rises and falls
in magnitude?

Only a very confused individual would babble on about the instantaneous
current or voltage.



--
Jim Pennino

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
It is nonsense, they can be no wave in the element due to it being a
conductor. He is confusing the I and V plots for waves.

OK, I realise now where your confusion has arisen. It is because I
was discussing what was necessary to set up a standing wave in the
first place, whereas you misunderstood and became confused because
you were discussing the state of affairs AFTER the standing wave had been
set up.

Perhaps if you read posts more carefully and were not so intent on scoring
points and abusing those with whom you deliberately disagree?