wrote in news
But again, the question is why bother?


Well, to add to your list of Eternal Questions of the Past Century, you can
add that one. It's far older actually, and has been asked of air travel,
mountian climbing, exploring West Africa, Antartica, and probably bungy
jumping. The jury's still out on that last one. The simple answer is: because
it hasn't been done, or at least not by the person most wanting and able to
do it. A better answer is: to find out what can be learned along the way,
given that the destination is a new one. Most of science was built that way.

Lasers were (in)famously a solution waiting for a problem for over 50 years,
and if in all that time people had said 'why bother?' we'd still be without
compact optical storage and several other things. No inertial confinement
fusion experiments, no eye surgery except by scalpel or needle, and likely no
high precision clocks. Big Pharma is asking 'why bother' investing in new
antibiotic research, and the odds are that because it IS asking that question
in the negative, millions, perhaps billions of people will die. Of course,
given the population crisis, any surving descendents may actually be thankful
for this!

Point taken about shade. I still wonder if magnetically guided swarms of
particles might get at it even if there is a shade directly between the sun,
but I guess not many, and so long as the sun is hidden while the distant
signal point is not, then it works, same as it does now without
superconductors.

Lostgallifreyan wrote:
wrote in news
But again, the question is why bother?


Well, to add to your list of Eternal Questions of the Past Century, you can
add that one. It's far older actually, and has been asked of air travel,
mountian climbing, exploring West Africa, Antartica, and probably bungy
jumping. The jury's still out on that last one. The simple answer is: because
it hasn't been done, or at least not by the person most wanting and able to
do it. A better answer is: to find out what can be learned along the way,
given that the destination is a new one. Most of science was built that way.

Apples and oranges; we already know what will happen if one were to build an
antenna from a superconductor.

Fire up EZNEC and set material loss to zero; done.

snip more apples and oranges


--
Jim Pennino

wrote in :

Apples and oranges; we already know what will happen if one were to
build an antenna from a superconductor.

Fire up EZNEC and set material loss to zero; done.


Yeah, anyone with a map could say a great deal about the shape of West Africa
based on ocean travel. My point isn't so much about antennas, as about
exploring the easy availability of cold environments for superconductors in
space. Not having to lug heavy coolers up there might be an offer someone
cannot refuse, and that someone might come back with all kinds of
discoveries, things no models or predictions are going out there to find.

Lostgallifreyan wrote:
wrote in :

Apples and oranges; we already know what will happen if one were to
build an antenna from a superconductor.

Fire up EZNEC and set material loss to zero; done.


Yeah, anyone with a map could say a great deal about the shape of West Africa
based on ocean travel.

Again, apples and oranges as we know EXACTLY and in DETAIL what would happen.

My point isn't so much about antennas, as about
exploring the easy availability of cold environments for superconductors in
space.

Easy availability measured in thousands of dollars an ounce to get
stuff there.

Not having to lug heavy coolers up there might be an offer someone
cannot refuse, and that someone might come back with all kinds of
discoveries, things no models or predictions are going out there to find.

The only thing that makes a superconductor different is the lack of
resistance.

We already know exactly what that means and what we would do with them
if room temperature superconcductors were available.

Here are a couple of things: electric motors and generators that would
be very close to 100% efficient, small, light, and lossless power
transmission lines, lossless transformers, big honking magnets.

--
Jim Pennino

wrote in :

Here are a couple of things: electric motors and generators that would
be very close to 100% efficient, small, light, and lossless power
transmission lines, lossless transformers, big honking magnets.


Ok, point taken, but that may just mean stuff gets explored and diverse stuff
found to use them in here. After which they'll get sent out there. But given
the history of a lot of Earth's stuff beign based on stuff used in space, I
still think that much of the progress in superconductors will come to us via
uses in space. And once that happens, the distance between the inside and
outside of some space vehicle becomes the issue, not the original cost of
shipping it there.


Note that I'm not trying to compare the use of coolants and stuff to be
cooled, as used in the recent missions that ended for lack of coolant. Those
were conservatively based uses aimed at well-defined support of a mission.
I'm talking abotu them being used in small amounts as subject of direct
experiment and study, and I bet there will be plenty of that. Tha last thing
anyone should be doing is assuming that all that needs to be known about this
is known.

On 11/2/2014 3:58 PM, wrote:
Lostgallifreyan wrote:
wrote in :

Apples and oranges; we already know what will happen if one were to
build an antenna from a superconductor.

Fire up EZNEC and set material loss to zero; done.


Yeah, anyone with a map could say a great deal about the shape of West Africa
based on ocean travel.

Again, apples and oranges as we know EXACTLY and in DETAIL what would happen.

My point isn't so much about antennas, as about
exploring the easy availability of cold environments for superconductors in
space.

Easy availability measured in thousands of dollars an ounce to get
stuff there.

Not having to lug heavy coolers up there might be an offer someone
cannot refuse, and that someone might come back with all kinds of
discoveries, things no models or predictions are going out there to find.

The only thing that makes a superconductor different is the lack of
resistance.

We already know exactly what that means and what we would do with them
if room temperature superconcductors were available.

Here are a couple of things: electric motors and generators that would
be very close to 100% efficient, small, light, and lossless power
transmission lines, lossless transformers, big honking magnets.


It's a little more than just no resistance. For instance,
superconductors will "reflect" (for lack of a better word) a magnetic
field. That's now a superconducting disk will levitate over a magnetic
field. So just setting the resistance to zero doesn't necessarily cut
it. There are other things to consider which EZNIC may not handle properly.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/2/2014 3:58 PM, wrote:
Lostgallifreyan wrote:
wrote in :

Apples and oranges; we already know what will happen if one were to
build an antenna from a superconductor.

Fire up EZNEC and set material loss to zero; done.


Yeah, anyone with a map could say a great deal about the shape of West Africa
based on ocean travel.

Again, apples and oranges as we know EXACTLY and in DETAIL what would happen.

My point isn't so much about antennas, as about
exploring the easy availability of cold environments for superconductors in
space.

Easy availability measured in thousands of dollars an ounce to get
stuff there.

Not having to lug heavy coolers up there might be an offer someone
cannot refuse, and that someone might come back with all kinds of
discoveries, things no models or predictions are going out there to find.

The only thing that makes a superconductor different is the lack of
resistance.

We already know exactly what that means and what we would do with them
if room temperature superconcductors were available.

Here are a couple of things: electric motors and generators that would
be very close to 100% efficient, small, light, and lossless power
transmission lines, lossless transformers, big honking magnets.


It's a little more than just no resistance. For instance,
superconductors will "reflect" (for lack of a better word) a magnetic
field. That's now a superconducting disk will levitate over a magnetic
field. So just setting the resistance to zero doesn't necessarily cut
it. There are other things to consider which EZNIC may not handle properly.

Such as?

In regards to magnetic levitation, a super conductor is a perfect
diamagnet due to the Meissner effect.

None of that has anything to do with antennas.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ds/maglev.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation

--
Jim Pennino

On 11/2/2014 6:11 PM, wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/2/2014 3:58 PM, wrote:
Lostgallifreyan wrote:
wrote in :

Apples and oranges; we already know what will happen if one were to
build an antenna from a superconductor.

Fire up EZNEC and set material loss to zero; done.


Yeah, anyone with a map could say a great deal about the shape of West Africa
based on ocean travel.

Again, apples and oranges as we know EXACTLY and in DETAIL what would happen.

My point isn't so much about antennas, as about
exploring the easy availability of cold environments for superconductors in
space.

Easy availability measured in thousands of dollars an ounce to get
stuff there.

Not having to lug heavy coolers up there might be an offer someone
cannot refuse, and that someone might come back with all kinds of
discoveries, things no models or predictions are going out there to find.

The only thing that makes a superconductor different is the lack of
resistance.

We already know exactly what that means and what we would do with them
if room temperature superconcductors were available.

Here are a couple of things: electric motors and generators that would
be very close to 100% efficient, small, light, and lossless power
transmission lines, lossless transformers, big honking magnets.


It's a little more than just no resistance. For instance,
superconductors will "reflect" (for lack of a better word) a magnetic
field. That's now a superconducting disk will levitate over a magnetic
field. So just setting the resistance to zero doesn't necessarily cut
it. There are other things to consider which EZNIC may not handle properly.

Such as?

In regards to magnetic levitation, a super conductor is a perfect
diamagnet due to the Meissner effect.

None of that has anything to do with antennas.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ds/maglev.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation


Are you sure? I haven't seen anything one way or the other on it -
although I'm sure it's been studied.

Can you point at some studies to that effect?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

On 11/2/2014 3:58 PM, wrote:
Lostgallifreyan wrote:
wrote in :

Apples and oranges; we already know what will happen if one were to
build an antenna from a superconductor.

Fire up EZNEC and set material loss to zero; done.


Yeah, anyone with a map could say a great deal about the shape of West Africa
based on ocean travel.

Again, apples and oranges as we know EXACTLY and in DETAIL what would happen.

My point isn't so much about antennas, as about
exploring the easy availability of cold environments for superconductors in
space.

Easy availability measured in thousands of dollars an ounce to get
stuff there.

Not having to lug heavy coolers up there might be an offer someone
cannot refuse, and that someone might come back with all kinds of
discoveries, things no models or predictions are going out there to find.

The only thing that makes a superconductor different is the lack of
resistance.

That is far from true. There are all sorts of magnetic effects.


We already know exactly what that means and what we would do with them
if room temperature superconcductors were available.

Here are a couple of things: electric motors and generators that would
be very close to 100% efficient, small, light, and lossless power
transmission lines, lossless transformers, big honking magnets.



--

Rick

rickman wrote:
On 11/2/2014 3:58 PM, wrote:
Lostgallifreyan wrote:
wrote in :

Apples and oranges; we already know what will happen if one were to
build an antenna from a superconductor.

Fire up EZNEC and set material loss to zero; done.


Yeah, anyone with a map could say a great deal about the shape of West Africa
based on ocean travel.

Again, apples and oranges as we know EXACTLY and in DETAIL what would happen.

My point isn't so much about antennas, as about
exploring the easy availability of cold environments for superconductors in
space.

Easy availability measured in thousands of dollars an ounce to get
stuff there.

Not having to lug heavy coolers up there might be an offer someone
cannot refuse, and that someone might come back with all kinds of
discoveries, things no models or predictions are going out there to find.

The only thing that makes a superconductor different is the lack of
resistance.

That is far from true. There are all sorts of magnetic effects.

All of which are due to the lack of resistance which results in enormous
eddy currents.

Are you familiar with the eddy current dampers found on some balance
scales consisting of a piece of aluminum between two permanet magnets?

If the scale is see-sawing up and down, the eddy currents induced in the
aluminum generate a small magnetic field in oposition to the motion,
thus damping the motion.

Replace the aluminum with a superconductor and the scale is no longer
damped, it is locked into position because of the huge eddy currents
from even the slightest movement.


--
Jim Pennino